FE4 Weapon Tier List

[Thor Odinson]

I thought you only had 50 kills on Sigurd's Silver Sword at Endgame for a second there. It scared me for a second.

It doesn't have to be 50, but even the 40s or even mid 30s would be good enough. CH6 is axemen territory, so it's not to get it to 50 due to WTA especially if either Lakche or Celice has it. Lakche is a beast and kills everything she touches and Celice has kill priority. After CH6, the Hero Sword could be sold to Delmud so he can get some kills, gain experience, which piles more kills on to Hero Sword. (or let Lakche continue her killing spree if you favor her heavily like I do)

In CH3 the Brigands coming towards Madino are pretty good to get about 7-10 kills for Ayra's Hero Sword, to start. All Ayra has to do is stand there enemy phase and they kinda die on it. The Dragon reinforcements, too. Since I usually have Ayra guard the Madino area, they all became kills for Hero Sword. That's about 13-20 kills (I don't remember the number of reinforcements) in total. In just one Chapter. Plus whatever stuff Ayra kills when Madino sends units to the Agusty. Sigurd has to run around and seize and kill bosses so he can't get more kills on Silver Sword from those enemies where you don't need to move to kill. The Pegasus reinforcements could also be used for kills--After Sigurd captures, Ayra could be warped up to kill things with the archers, since Levin wants to stay as close as possible to Silesia for Holsety when he can. Ayra won't get all the kills for the sword, since the archers will be killing things too, but it still adds up to a decent amount. CH5 has a bunch of Axe Knights close to home castle and Sigurd is too busy trying to reach Bryon for Tyrfing. More kills for Hero Sword. And it doesn't have to be her doing the kills, either, although Meteor makes it so much easier.

There are some plays where I didn't get to 50 kills on Ayra's Hero Sword during gen 1, but it was made up in CH6.

(Then there's that time where it had the same number of kills as Sigurd's Silver Sword at 55, but to be fair, Ayra is a Swordmaster. I favor Swordmasters. Ayra got the Leg Ring.)

Edited June 17, 2010 by Luminescent Blade

[Renall]

Narga is close to useless. You can kill Julius with Celice in less time than it takes to recruit Julia and bring her over. Tornado can help Leaf, and Bolganon's high damage can also help out in a pinch, much more than what Narga would do.

Before I saw the Hel Bishop trick with the Berserk Staff in your run, I wasn't sure if that was the case, but knowing about that I was pretty convinced Julia is completely unnecessary in Endgame, which means so is bothering with Narga.

Mistoltin >> Balmung. Aless has more Move than Shannan and can see much more combat than he can. Mistoltin also gives Aless 10 Res which allows him to take on Alvis and dodge Sleeps in the Final Chapter.

Well hold on a second here. No question the user is important, but we are still considering the weapon. It's not that Aless is seeing more combat, but that Mistoltin is. Is it better for that reason? Are the combats where Balmung is used more of a sure thing, or more clutch? I don't want to get into another Shannan vs. Aless thing, but it's kind of hard when they're signature weapons. I suppose technically you can glitch Balmung over to Holyn!Lakche though I don't know if that should be counted.

I also think that Hero Sword could rise to top tier since it fixes the combat of weaker units such as Beowulf, and can let units like Delmud consistently ORKO. The Hero Sword is also great in the Arena as well. However, I find 50 kills on the Hero Sword highly unlikely. In my experience I have only managed to get the Silver Sword up to 50 kills while playing efficiently, and that was near the end of Chapter 5. I doubt the Hero Sword can get 50 kills in a reasonable amount of time as it comes much later and the units using it are either foot units or can't ORKO consistently.

Well, it's still useful, so I'm gonna do it like this. First Gen Hero Sword goes up into LOL, Second Gen Hero Sword stays where it is. Sound about right?

[Thor Odinson]

I made a separate save where I did give Lakche Balmung, and Leg+Knight ring. Destruction ensued. Good thing Johan had lots of money though.

It was fun.

But since Shanan is statistically inferior to Lakche, not having Balmung pretty much makes him useless in comparison to her (even though he still ROFLstomps most units statwise despite having crap growths). So it's still better to keep it on him.

I like the new set up. Sounds good to me.

[Sophius]

i still say that Mistholin should be below gen. 1 hero sword. Even if it remains in the lol tier. My reasons for this are: A)greater availability B.) only costs 8000 to repair C.) the hero sword will usually get critical anyway, and, due to poor paladin stat caps, Mistholin's stat boosts won't be much higher than the stats of Lakche with a hero sword D.)hero swords X4 atttack will more tha offset Mistholins might due to the fact that it usually does more damage anyway + 2 more chances to critical, and E.) Mistholin makes gen. 1 more difficult.

Balmung should also be higher than mistholin though I'm not certain where I would put it in relation to the hero sword.

And what about moving warp up?

Edited June 17, 2010 by Sophius

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

I think the Thief Sword is more useful than the Hand Axe or Barrier Sword. The Pegasus Knights are easy to raise because the money-grabbing from the Sword allows Fee and Fury gain access to the Elite Ring earlier. The Barrier Sword may be skipped or not obtained, and the Hand Axe rarely sees the any action.

The Gen 1 Hero Sword allows the mediocre mounts to go further in the arena.

Edited June 17, 2010 by Don Giovanni

[Renall]

I think the Thief Sword is more useful than the Hand Axe or Barrier Sword. The Pegasus Knights are easy to raise because the money-grabbing from the Sword allows Fee and Fury gain access to the Elite Ring earlier. The Barrier Sword may be skipped or not obtained, and the Hand Axe rarely sees the any action.

I've actually been accidentally letting the Thief Sword slide too far down out of neglect. I had the same thought process as you, but I don't know where best to put it. As a sword it's strictly mediocre, but for the purposes of cash generation it can be nice. Where would that leave it?

The Gen 1 Hero Sword allows the mediocre mounts to go further in the arena.

That's a very good point. Rank isn't being considered explicitly, but helping Noish and Alec boosts your Experience Rank if you want it. I can see how that helps arguably more than two Gen 2-only legendaries locked to specific people. What does everyone think of that? Just don't even try to dislodge Holsety... not that I think anyone would.

[Thor Odinson]

Holsety should get its own tier because it's THAT good. I propose we have a LOLSETY Tier, then the LOL Tier.

I think I actually mentioned the arena point before. But then again, I write in walls of text so it's easy to miss.

But hell, it's already in the LOL Tier.

[Narga_Rocks]

Anyone else want Earth sword down? It's okay at 1 range, but at 2 range it has 12 wt. Unless you put it on a unit with lots of spd they'll frequently have trouble doubling mages and sword users. May even have trouble with some lance enemies. Also, 10 uses and 1000 per repair, making it expensive for the arena and allows only limited use outside the arena.

[Sophius]

Is there a glitch in the forum that makes my posts invisible?

Also, I agree about the earth sword.

Edited June 17, 2010 by Sophius

[Narga_Rocks]

Is there a glitch in the forum that makes my posts invisible?

I don't know. It probably wasn't a mod. We'd normally tell you why we did something if we affected one of your posts. What and where did you post something you can no longer see? (PM if you want to tell me. Keep it out of the topic)

Edited June 17, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Renall]

Anyone else want Earth sword down? It's okay at 1 range, but at 2 range it has 12 wt. Unless you put it on a unit with lots of spd they'll frequently have trouble doubling mages and sword users. May even have trouble with some lance enemies. Also, 10 uses and 1000 per repair, making it expensive for the arena and allows only limited use outside the arena.

The uses makes it difficult, but the healing is very nice. Where should it drop to?

[Narga_Rocks]

The uses makes it difficult, but the healing is very nice. Where should it drop to?

It's also only 70 hit on top of its other issues. Not sure as I've never gone as fast as others in this game so I don't know how much use they got from it. I struggled to just almost A rank turns (like, 9 or 10 away). But I'd think Wind/Thunder swords > Earth sword > Flame sword. There are just too many issues with the Earth sword.

[Life]

I don't know. It probably wasn't a mod. We'd normally tell you why we did something if we affected one of your posts. What and where did you post something you can no longer see? (PM if you want to tell me. Keep it out of the topic)

Narga, you are horrible at detecting sarcasm.

[BBM]

I'm not seeing Thoron that much above Tornado. Honestly, no. It's only user in Gen 1 sucks. Only Tinny, Leaf, and Arthur can use it in Gen 2, and only after promotion. Leaf has Tornado, Tinny sucks and isn't promoting much before Tornado comes anyways, Levin!Arthur has Holsety, the others suck, but might possibly get a few uses here and there from it before Tornado arrives. And then once Tornado does arrive, it roflstomps Thoron.

[Narga_Rocks]

I'm not seeing Thoron that much above Tornado. Honestly, no. It's only user in Gen 1 sucks. Only Tinny, Leaf, and Arthur can use it in Gen 2, and only after promotion. Leaf has Tornado, Tinny sucks and isn't promoting much before Tornado comes anyways, Levin!Arthur has Holsety, the others suck, but might possibly get a few uses here and there from it before Tornado arrives. And then once Tornado does arrive, it roflstomps Thoron.

On the other hand, Thoron is about the only way for the Lex x Tiltyu pair not to be utterly useless by chapter 9.

[BBM]

The Hero Axe is what makes Lex good and Johan/Johalva okay. Without it, Lex would be average at best and Johan/Johalva would be utter trash. Yet there are weapons above it, like the Earth Sword, which have less availability but are better. Making one or two characters usable isn't better.

Say Thoron goes to a Lex x Tiltyu kid. Probably Arthur, as he comes earlier and gets a horse/Canto, even if Tinny has slightly better magic. Even then, Arthur needs to be in KO range for it to be used. He has Canto, so he can blast someone and move back. But Leaf can kill something, and then kill some more things on Enemy Phase. He's not restricted to Player Phase. Therefore, Thoron is restricted to Player Phase while Tornado isn't. And I can't remember whether the type of the majority of the non-Dark magical units in Gen 2. I believe it's Thunder, giving Tornado the advantage, but I may be wrong. If it's Fire, Thoron gets the advantage.

[Narga_Rocks]

The Hero Axe is what makes Lex good and Johan/Johalva okay. Without it, Lex would be average at best and Johan/Johalva would be utter trash. Yet there are weapons above it, like the Earth Sword, which have less availability but are better. Making one or two characters usable isn't better.

Say Thoron goes to a Lex x Tiltyu kid. Probably Arthur, as he comes earlier and gets a horse/Canto, even if Tinny has slightly better magic. Even then, Arthur needs to be in KO range for it to be used. He has Canto, so he can blast someone and move back. But Leaf can kill something, and then kill some more things on Enemy Phase. He's not restricted to Player Phase. Therefore, Thoron is restricted to Player Phase while Tornado isn't. And I can't remember whether the type of the majority of the non-Dark magical units in Gen 2. I believe it's Thunder, giving Tornado the advantage, but I may be wrong. If it's Fire, Thoron gets the advantage.

Um, ambush + wrath = death before getting attacked. If Arthur has magic ring + Thoron, even an Arthur with a physical father has the power to OHKO most enemies with crits. It isn't player phase only. Actually, Leaf can eventually die, which means Thoron has even more opportunity to attack than Leaf. Of course, if we are assuming best (or at least very good) pairings then Lex x Tiltyu is not happening, so it may not be relevant. But Thoron is the only thing making it not suck late-game (granted, need lover or charisma or Celice around to prevent missing, since missing = death, pretty much)

[BBM]

I totally forgot about Ambush, which is really bad.

Either way, how is that a whole tier's difference?

[Narga_Rocks]

I totally forgot about Ambush, which is really bad.

Either way, how is that a whole tier's difference?

Availability, as well. Tiltyu may be bad, but she can still give good shots with Thoron. As bad as Tiltyu may be, imagine a Tiltyu without Thoron. Incidentally, that's also one potential reason for Balmunk > Mistolen. Compare shanan to Aless without their holy weapons. Now compare them with. I suspect Aless wins a lot easier when neither have holy weapons. The importance of the weapon to the wielders should perhaps be taken into account.

[Aquilae]

Earth Sword shouldn't be that high. It is very situational and gimps the users' AS at range. It doesn't do nearly as much damage as those below it. The Hero Axe gives Lex awesome offence and ability to ORKO, and saves a lot of turns in the 1st. Gen. Johan can use it in the second generation which gives him acceptable offence and he can help out, providing chip damage and finishing stuff off. The Earth Sword has only 10 uses which make it unviable for combat, and it is only useful for providing a small HP bonus to the user from time to time. The Hero Axe saves more turns than the Earth Sword by significantly increasing the combat capabilities of a few mounted units, thus I feel that the Hero Axe > Earth Sword.

Ichival and Wind Sword should drop as they cost a lot of turns to get. Lugging Dew to the Blaggi Tower wastes a lot of turns when Sigurd could just end the chapter by capturing Orgahil. Similarly, Brigid starts a long way off from Aideen, and it takes quite a few turns to get the Ichival. Moreover, the Ichival doesn't do much for Brigid and Faval, both of them are still unmounted and locked to Bows, meaning that they won't make it in time to kill bosses. They ORKO just fine with Steel / Killer.

Also, the Slim Sword and Slim Lance should rise. Both of them weigh very little compared to other weapons in the list, and have better Mt than Iron, they can help out C Rank Sword / Lance users and let other units double or increase their evasion. In addition, they also have the highest hit rates for their weapon class, with the exception of the Hero Sword, and the legendaries (increased Skill). They could move up above the Flame Sword at least, because they are more viable in combat than the Flame Sword due to lower Weight, and Elfire at range isn't that great of an asset.

[Renall]

Earth Sword shouldn't be that high. It is very situational and gimps the users' AS at range. It doesn't do nearly as much damage as those below it. The Hero Axe gives Lex awesome offence and ability to ORKO, and saves a lot of turns in the 1st. Gen. Johan can use it in the second generation which gives him acceptable offence and he can help out, providing chip damage and finishing stuff off. The Earth Sword has only 10 uses which make it unviable for combat, and it is only useful for providing a small HP bonus to the user from time to time. The Hero Axe saves more turns than the Earth Sword by significantly increasing the combat capabilities of a few mounted units, thus I feel that the Hero Axe > Earth Sword.

But how far up should a weapon with limited usability go? And what weight do we put on the Hero Axe's outright necessity to axe users generally?

Ichival and Wind Sword should drop as they cost a lot of turns to get. Lugging Dew to the Blaggi Tower wastes a lot of turns when Sigurd could just end the chapter by capturing Orgahil. Similarly, Brigid starts a long way off from Aideen, and it takes quite a few turns to get the Ichival. Moreover, the Ichival doesn't do much for Brigid and Faval, both of them are still unmounted and locked to Bows, meaning that they won't make it in time to kill bosses. They ORKO just fine with Steel / Killer.

We're not assuming ranked or speed play, but the ability to help with/hinder those things is arguable. I don't think getting Ichival is beyond the pale for an average mostly-efficient run, and it's got its uses against certain bosses. It's also a weapon that, used judiciously, won't need many/any repairs.

Also, the Slim Sword and Slim Lance should rise. Both of them weigh very little compared to other weapons in the list, and have better Mt than Iron, they can help out C Rank Sword / Lance users and let other units double or increase their evasion. In addition, they also have the highest hit rates for their weapon class, with the exception of the Hero Sword, and the legendaries (increased Skill). They could move up above the Flame Sword at least, because they are more viable in combat than the Flame Sword due to lower Weight, and Elfire at range isn't that great of an asset.

I agree, but I don't know where to put them. Over the Flame Sword sounds right. I don't think the Lance is so good that it deserves to be right under the Sword though, if only because fewer people use lances, Gen1 Fin doesn't have access to it for long, and Gen2 Fin doesn't need it. It mostly winds up helping Fury/Fee, and they need offense more than they need evade.

[Narga_Rocks]

Actually, I kinda disagree with the stance on Fee. 6 wt with WTA over swords makes for quite nice avoid. Her avoid isn't actually that good otherwise due to never getting terrain. And considering outside the Hero Lance (12 less avo due to 6 more wt) she's not likely to be ORKOing anyway, slim lance tends to reliably 4HKO (and hence 2RKO), at least for long enough to get her spd/lck up to where the loss of 12 avo doesn't hurt as much. And depending on her parent, she might even ORKO due to critical (I think crit + hit will normally KO even with slim). And it's not like we are talking slims from other games. This thing has 12 mt. The sword has 8 and can be helpful for arena fighting. Heck, I think I remember Arden being able to actually win an arena battle or two solely due to the slim sword existing. Granted, that probably only means anything in ranked since otherwise we probably couldn't care less about Arden winning in the arena.

[Renall]

Well, the Slim Sword needs to go up solely based on being around forever, helping Ethlin in the Prologue to dodge-tank and then helping anyone who needs to cheese evade. The Slims are essentially just flat-out superior to Irons, which is why they already outranked them. However, not all characters necessarily benefit from dodging more if it kills their offense. It's great for limited situations, evade for characters who can kill anyway (Ayra), and extra defense for people with no particular offense anyway (Ethlin, pre-promo Lachesis). But it still has Iron Mt, which is a bit lacking when just about every special sword in the game ballparks around Steel Mt.

[Aquilae]

Slims have 2 more Mt than Iron, 2 less than Steel.

[Sophius]

i still say that Mistholin should be below gen. 1 hero sword. Even if it remains in the lol tier. My reasons for this are: A)greater availability B.) only costs 8000 to repair C.) the hero sword will usually get critical anyway, and, due to poor paladin stat caps, Mistholin's stat boosts won't be much higher than the stats of Lakche with a hero sword D.)hero swords X4 atttack will more tha offset Mistholins might due to the fact that it usually does more damage anyway + 2 more chances to critical, and E.) Mistholin makes gen. 1 more difficult.

Balmung should also be higher than mistholin though I'm not certain where I would put it in relation to the hero sword.

And what about moving warp up?

I'm always ignored.