FE4 Weapon Tier List

[Aquilae]

@ Sophius

A.) - The greater availability doesn't help the Hero Sword all that much. As I've pointed out, only Sigurd, Beowulf and promoted Alec / Noish (they can use it unpromoted, thanks Ninji) can use the Hero Sword while mounted. Sigurd doesn't really need it, the latter three aren't ORKOing with it anyway. Ayra and Holyn do exceedingly well with it, but they can't see much combat due to being foot units. So from an efficiency standpoint, the Hero Sword isn't very advantageous in the First Generation. It does have more availability, but it doesn't mean much.

B.) Money isn't a huge issue in this game, and I find that Aless doesn't have any problem repairing Mistoltin unless I decide to buy some rings for him. It is an advantage, but a minor one.

C.) Lakche's stats with a Hero Sword may be higher than Aless with the Mistoltin, but Aless can see more combat due to being mounted and having a Res boost from the Mistoltin. Aless is ORKOing almost as much as Lakche would anyway as Mistoltin has high Mt and Critical. From an efficiency standpoint, the Hero Sword isn't going to reach 50 kills in a conceivable amount of time as its users in Gen 1. don't see enough combat to catapult it to 50 kills.

In my experience, only the Silver Sword got more than 50 kills at the end of Gen. 1. The Hero Lance had 27 and the Hero Axe had ~20, and the Hero Sword had about 5.

Aless stats are enough for him to do well in combat with the Mistoltin, it only has 5 Weight meaning he still can double, and has an extra 20% to critical from the Mistoltin. The users of the Hero Sword having better stat caps don't mean anything when both are still ORKOing.

D.) As I've mentioned, the Mistoltin is in most cases sufficient for ORKOing, the Hero Swords' x4 attack is redundant as the enemy is dead anyway.

E.) Iron Lance / Iron Axe / Javelin down to bottom. They make Gen 1. more difficult by existing.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Aquilae

[_____]

Unpromoted Social Knights can use the Hero Sword. They can't, however, use the Hero Lance.

[Renall]

E.) Iron Lance / Iron Axe / Javelin down to bottom. They make Gen 1. more difficult by existing.

The Javelin you can argue, but I'm not sure how much lower I can put the Iron Lance/Axe than the bottom of Bottom, where they already are and have been the whole time. Iron Axe is obviously the worst axe since for some insane reason it has the same Wt and Hit as Steel/Silver and isn't 1~2 like the Hand Axe to at least potentially have some value (though the 20 Wt on the Hand Axe is so crushing that 1~2 is arguably never worth it, thoughts?). Given how many enemies use it, though, can you really argue it makes Gen 1 harder by existing? I mean, all those bandits and such would have to use a good axe if not for Iron...

Now the Javelin, in enemy hands that just makes the whole game more annoying.

[SuperTroll Maxim Lapierre]

E.) Iron Lance / Iron Axe / Javelin down to bottom. They make Gen 1. more difficult by existing.

The Javelin allows Cuan and Sigurd to deal damage to the chumps in the early chapters without fear of retaliation and nothing is forcing the player to leave it equipped on the unit after battling. It won't see much use after chapter 3. It doesn't make gen 1 harder at all.

[Aquilae]

What I meant was in response to Sophius point that the Mistoltin makes Gen. 1 harder by being on Eltoshan in Chapter 3. If weapons were judged by whether they make the game more difficult in the hands of enemies, than Loputousu / Torhammer should be on the list, and Javelins and stuff should be at the bottom because many enemy units use the weapons.

I look at it this way, a lot of units use the Iron weapons, so it does have a bigger impact than a random Silver Blade or high-end weapon.

[Sophius]

We are looking at the contributions of all usable weapons. Since Lopoutsou and Torhammer are not usable, they aren't included. Mistholin is unique considering its the only one of its kind, so we can assume that Aless's and Elhtsahn's mistholin are the same and that Elthsahn passes Misthtolin to Aless. this is the reason we discern between the silver and hero swords.

[Aquilae]

We are looking at the contributions of all usable weapons. Since Lopoutsou and Torhammer are not usable, they aren't included. Mistholin is unique considering its the only one of its kind, so we can assume that Aless's and Elhtsahn's mistholin are the same and that Elthsahn passes Misthtolin to Aless. this is the reason we discern between the silver and hero swords.

How would you know for sure? Is the Iron Lance #2 we get in Gen. 2 from random enemy #52 in Chapter 2? Frankly, I don't see a point in tiering negative "contributions" arising from the weapon being present on enemy units. It doesn't accurately determine the worth of the weapon to the player, which in my opinion should be what this tier list is trying to measure. The Mistoltin isn't a good weapon because Eltoshan was annoying with one? I don't see why.

[Maou]

Eltoshan isn't even hard to deal with in ch.3. You should not be getting touched by the mistoltin because it's damn simple to set up the conversation with lachesis.

Simply put, personal problems from one player's experience shouldn't drag down mistoltin's position.

[PuffPuff]

I can't remember how often I even needed Restore, but it does serve a unique function nothing else does, so it should probably go up for that alone.

I don't see any other use for it other than the Dark Mages with Sleep Staves.

Bolganone can go with Tornado for all I care. Appears later, must have Azel as a dad or only Leaf can use it and 12 Weight dooms it for good.

If there is any use for that tome have Sety inherit Azel's blood. With his good speed growth should make it come in handy.

The Mistoltin isn't a good weapon because Eltoshan was annoying with one? I don't see why.

Knight Killer+Skill Ring on Sigurd solves the problem without Lachesis.

[BBM]

The Wind Sword down, I think. Ichival may not be so out of your way, but the Wind Sword is. And what does it do? Give Dew some form of 2 range so he can get money? He's probably not getting paired either, although you could give the Wind Sword to someone else. It should go below the Javelin at least. The Javelin has some use in killing a few Ballistae on cliffs.

[Aquilae]

Sigurd still has atrocious hit with the Knight Killer, and Sigurd has a 38% chance of dying to Eltoshan due to critical, and he needs to get hit by Eltoshan on enemy phase then hit him back again which means the Cross Knights will smash what's left of his HP after Eltoshan is done.

Javelin is quite helpful to Sigurd during the early chapters as it helps counter the Brigands with Hand Axes and also the random enemies carrying Javelins. I'm not seeing the Wind Sword, which is almost unobtainable in Gen. 1, over the Javelin which helps Cavs kill at range

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Uh, if anything, Wind Sword should go up. Wind and Thunder Sword are available in the same chapter, granted Thunder Sword comes earlier but it's not gonna do that much. Then comes chapter 4 which has Wind Mages and that means WTD (which is +20 AVO and HIT) in addition to already having -5 AS (when attacking from a distance) and -10 AVO against physical enemies when compared to Wind Sword. As BBM said, it can be given to any other character and if you want Dew to steal money from a distance, you could've already given him the Light Sword instead >_>.

Edited June 20, 2010 by Speedwagon

[Aquilae]

I don't deny that Wind Sword is pretty awesome, but what kills it is the ridiculous amount of time it takes to get it from the Blaggi Tower. It takes about twice or thrice the time it takes to get Ichival or seize Orgahil, which is much too long.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

I don't deny that Wind Sword is pretty awesome, but what kills it is the ridiculous amount of time it takes to get it from the Blaggi Tower. It takes about twice or thrice the time it takes to get Ichival or seize Orgahil, which is much too long.

True, if the way an item is obtained plays a huge factor in this then it can probably sink.

[Renall]

True, if the way an item is obtained plays a huge factor in this then it can probably sink.

I'm not normally in favor of this because I'm not specifying explicitly that ranks/efficiency are needed, but if a weapon wastes so many turns to get that it isn't worth it, that's something. What's the fastest you can possibly get Dew to Blaggi Tower anyway, assuming you have him always advancing toward it at the fastest possible speed?

[BBM]

If you have Dew as far as possible north before the bridge opens, and no enemies get in his way, it's 12 turns. Of course, enemies will get in his way. Dunno how many Ichival would take. Depends on how fast you can clear out the enemies chasing after Brigid.

[Narga_Rocks]

If you have Dew as far as possible north before the bridge opens, and no enemies get in his way, it's 12 turns. Of course, enemies will get in his way. Dunno how many Ichival would take. Depends on how fast you can clear out the enemies chasing after Brigid.

The trouble is that capturing the throne takes, what, 5 turns or something? You can at least use sylvia to maybe cut a turn off Dew's journey, but the same applies to sigurd.

[Sophius]

Also, to repeat somthing I've s aid about 3 times, I belive the warp staf should be moved up.

Also,

Weapons rank based on how well they help us throughout both generations

This is what Renall said in his first post. It means we look at all of a usable weapon's contributions. Because the mistholin makes the first generation harder(aka it provides negative help) it can be counted as a contribution. I will admit that seting up the conversation with Elthsahn is easy, assuming of course that Lachesis has been promoted. However, because it is unlikely she will be promoted by ch. 4 without massive abuse, and that she is horrendously frail until her promotion coupled with 6 mov., she can't handle herselff against a couple of cross knights, let alone Elthsahn. This means you have to bait Elthsahn into Lachesis's range, and due to Elthsahns holy weapon, even Sigurd will likely die.

[Aquilae]

Why should the Warp Staff be moved up?

Also, I don't get the point of measuring the "contributions" an enemy makes with that weapon. It is difficult to quantify, and weapons on enemies don't help us in any way, shape or form. There are no weapons on the list that are detrimental to the player, and I think it goes without saying that any detriment caused by enemies is not part of the contributions a weapon makes to the player.

I've never used any unit to bait Eltoshan into range. Lachesis even if unpromoted can talk to Eltoshan with Sylvia's help without any unit getting into his range. Lachesis can promote by mid-chapter 3 if you pass her the Return / Relive Staff and Elite Ring and have her spam it, but it doesn't unnecessarily slow down a player anyhow, so I don't see why that should be considered as abuse. Ideally, Lachesis should be promoted by Chapter 4 for Rescue Staff utility, so she can and should be promoted by then.

[dondon151]

I would argue that weapons on enemies are actually beneficial, as it allows you to massacre them on enemy phase. If no enemy unit in FE had weapons, then this game would take much longer to complete.

[riariadne]

I demand to be higher on that list. C wut I did thar

In all seriousness, Hero Axe needs to go above That Other Silver Sword. It passes through the generations anyways, and it's like the lightest axe evar and makes Lex the awesome guy that he is.

[Tables]

yeah, I'm not seeing the Hero axe being where it is. It might not actually be that great of a weapon, but considering Lex and Joha[x]'s other options, it makes a mediocre character a lot more useful. Compare that to the Ch 3 Silver Sword: That effectively gives one character a +4 mt boost (over a Steel Sword), +8 mt probably as most sword users double, pretty nice, but compare to about a +20mt boost from the Hero Axe, which is around for longer and probably takes no extra time to get, and yeah, the benefits relative to what else there is should be clear, and that's not even mentioning the Hero Axe's 6 AS and 12 avo boost.

Yes, I'm bringing this topic back up. It's interesting.

Edited July 7, 2010 by I Eat Tables

[Renall]

True as that is, doesn't it rather make it wind up like the Killer or Hero Bow? Should those go down or should the Hero Axe go up, or both? They are limited in scope but long on usefulness, but the bows have certain distinct advantages and disadvantages. I suppose an argument can be made for the Hero Axe being a defensive boon to Lex, since it opens the possibility of a OHKO on defense with Ambush and also raises his evade. But while the Hero Axe has much less weight, it's still a fairly stark amount of lost Evade.

[Tables]

Well, compare it statistically to the Hero Lance. It has 10 less hit but 1 more mt. Then compare to the Hero Bow, it's only 8 evade lost in comparison.

[Aquilae]

The Killer and Hero Bow should drop. They are bows, meaning that the units that can use them don't have an enemy phase and see less action on a whole. They do have great offense, but need to be shielded as enemies may attack them and you will have to waste time getting rid of them.

The Hero Bow and the Killer Bow are inferior from an efficiency standpoint, as the Hero Axe has 1 range which allows its user to perform much better on enemy phase, unlike the Hero / Killer Bow's 2 square range limitation.

Edited July 8, 2010 by Aquilae