Soul's Maniac Mode playthrough.

[Don Draper]

I'm a bit surprised at Shinon's relatively high exp gain to mine (he was only at level 1.33 by the time I finished chapter 7, for example), heck with the exception of Boyd, who you haven't really used, all of your units are at a higher level. I thought MM would reduce exp gain, if anything, not increase it.

Enemies are higher levelled, and there are a far greater number of them. Therefore, exp gains are a fair bit higher then on HM.

[Narga_Rocks]

Enemies are higher levelled, and there are a far greater number of them. Therefore, exp gains are a fair bit higher then on HM.

Going on with this, I suspect that our HM cexp gains use the same formula as their MM cexp gains. An interesting question would be comparing our HM cexp gains to their HM cexp gains to see if the formula is more generous for their HM (since it isn't the hardest mode).

Going from this site, though, MM is harsher with bexp (you get half what we get on HM. At least it doesn't cost twice as much to use, though. Stupid 1/4 bexp RD HM).

[Don Draper]

Going on with this, I suspect that our HM cexp gains use the same formula as their MM cexp gains. An interesting question would be comparing our HM cexp gains to their HM cexp gains to see if the formula is more generous for their HM (since it isn't the hardest mode).

Going from this site, though, MM is harsher with bexp (you get half what we get on HM. At least it doesn't cost twice as much to use, though. Stupid 1/4 bexp RD HM).

From what I've played of Maniac (On Chapter 6 ATM), C-exp is approximately the same, although a little higher due to enemies being higher levelled. The formula is likely the same though, and I would imagine that the increase in enemy density also contributes to higher overall levels.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Ari Gold

[Narga_Rocks]

From what I've played of Maniac (On Chapter 6 ATM), C-exp is approximately the same, although a little higher due to enemies being higher levelled. The formula is likely the same though, and I would imagine that the increase in enemy density also contributes to higher overall levels.

Yep. With the same formula but higher level enemies and more of them, you would most certainly end up with higher levels. Lower bexp balances this, though, for units with lots of availability. I suspect that, depending on your team, a MM run would end with around the same levels as a U.S. HM run. Maybe the extra enemies at higher levels would overcome the bexp loss, though.

Anyway, anyone with the iso feel like killing some things on their HM to see if the cexp formula is the same as our HM or not? Just find an enemy and attack in both versions while making sure that the level differential is the same. Do the same with MM to make sure that it is the same, though based on what others said so far it seems to be the same.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Don Draper]

In Chapter 6:

Boyd (Level 6) attacks Soldier (Level 10)

12 exp for a hit

26 exp for a kill

Exp for hitting remains the same, but in the US version he would have gotten 31 exp for that kill if the matchup was the same. Then again, that soldier would have been Level 8 in the US HM version (Enemies are 2 levels higher on Maniac). So in the US version, he would have....

11 exp for a hit

28 exp for a kill

So the difference is pretty much negligible.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Ari Gold

[Narga_Rocks]

Well, if the difference is only negligible, I think the loss of bexp would about cancel the extra enemies.

Anyway, I suppose that means the formula is:

delta = enemy level - player level

Japan MM

hit = 10 + delta/2

kill = 20 + 3delta/2

US HM

hit = 10 + delta/2

kill = 25 + 3delta/2

If you take 1 hit + 1 kill to take everything down, a 2 level differential in the enemy levels results in 1 more exp for a hit and 2 less exp for a kill (due to losing 5 but gaining 3). I suppose that is a fairly small differential. In fact, if the difference ever increases to 4 levels (due to being lower level against higher level enemies for whatever reason) then a kill is actually + 1 and a kill is + 2, resulting in a win either way. At the most, you probably wouldn't expect to lose any more than a level relative to US HM, assuming a decent increase in enemy numbers to counteract half bexp.

Is their HM the same cexp as our HM?

[Don Draper]

Going by this:

http://serenesforest.net/fe9/calculation.html

HM adds 15 exp at the end of the forumla for killing, while Maniac adds 10 exp. Increased enemy levels then essentially makes up any difference that might be created.

Enemy density apparently gets insane in the later chapters. 106 starting enemies in Chapter 24 from what I've heard O_o

I'm keeping track of my levels too, and I'll compare them to a regular HM playlog after I'm done. I'm sure levels end up balancing out.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Ari Gold

[Narga_Rocks]

Going by this:

http://serenesforest.net/fe9/calculation.html

HM adds 15 exp at the end of the forumla for killing, while Maniac adds 10 exp. Increased enemy levels then essentially makes up any difference that might be created.

Enemy density apparently gets insane in the later chapters. 106 starting enemies in Chapter 24 from what I've heard O_o

I'm keeping track of my levels too, and I'll compare them to a regular HM playlog after I'm done. I'm sure levels end up balancing out.

The reason I keep asking is because the calculation page is perhaps the US calculations with Japan MM tagged on. I'm hoping to confirm whether what is listed for NM and HM applies to both US and Japan or just one of the two.

[Don Draper]

Oh I see what you're saying.

On Japanese regular HM:

Boyd (Level 2) attacks Fighter (Level 1)

Hit: 10 exp

Kill: 24 exp

[Narga_Rocks]

Oh I see what you're saying.

On Japanese regular HM:

Boyd (Level 2) attacks Fighter (Level 1)

Hit: 10 exp

Kill: 24 exp

Looks good. 11 + (-1) = 10, 10 + (-1) + 15 = 24. That probably means that the rest works, too.

[Don Draper]

Soul is it just me, or is there no Armory/Shop in the Chapter 8 Battle Prep?

Also, are you using B-exp? After b-exping, I was able to get Boyd/Oscar to Level 12 (could have gotten them to Level 13 but I wanted to save some). Aside from Titania, your levels going into Chapter 8 seem lower.

[Ryan7556]

I'm not sure if this is the appropriate thread to say this but...

I got up to chapter 15 on MM, the level was working fine originally but when I load my save the screen is black and there's no menu or anything. I'm using Dolphin 2.0, what can I do to fix this issue? What version are you guys using to play this?

Edited August 13, 2010 by Axefighter Barst

[Junkhead]

Soul is it just me, or is there no Armory/Shop in the Chapter 8 Battle Prep?

Also, are you using B-exp? After b-exping, I was able to get Boyd/Oscar to Level 12 (could have gotten them to Level 13 but I wanted to save some). Aside from Titania, your levels going into Chapter 8 seem lower.

Nope. It's there. That's how I got to forge a sword for Mia.

Yeah, I guess it should've been obvious with the many level gains without CEPX.

I think it has to be because you might've concentrated more on them...? I centered myself in giving one level of BEXP to most of my chracters before starting a chapter, that is, if I had any. And then there's the fact I'm rather mediocre at effeciency, since this is my first effeciency run. But I went learning a bit, I am trying to pull my lowest turncounts.

I'm not sure if this is the appropriate thread to say this but...

I got up to chapter 15 on MM, the level was working fine originally but when I load my save the screen is black and there's no menu or anything. I'm using Dolphin 2.0, what can I do to fix this issue? What version are you guys using to play this?

Before Ch 14, you can play normally in version 2.0. But I changed to an older version: Build 4526

[Balcerzak]

I'm not sure if this is the appropriate thread to say this but...

I got up to chapter 15 on MM, the level was working fine originally but when I load my save the screen is black and there's no menu or anything. I'm using Dolphin 2.0, what can I do to fix this issue? What version are you guys using to play this?

This happens to me a lot on both NM and HM at around this stage in the game too. I'm running on Ubuntu, using an unofficial build of Dolphin (it claims SVN R 4883). I had to re-compile one of the plugins myself to get it to work properly (and oddly enough, compiling the whole thing had different issues, so I'm just using my current working hybrid, and not asking questions.)

I've narrowed the behaviour down to it only failing and having Frame Rate drop to zero if you're trying to load a save made at the expedition. Cleared saves, and Base saves seem to work just fine, but if you're at the map screen... hit return to base and save there, otherwise you bone your save.

Edited August 13, 2010 by Balcerzak

[Ryan7556]

Bal, I think you're right about that. It seems there's no way for me to play that save anymore. Can anyone possibly upload a Manic Mode save(around chapter 15) through memory card format, I believe those files are found in the user/GC folder.

Edited August 13, 2010 by Axefighter Barst

[Celice]

Try version 4586. It seems the load. The emulator doesn't seem to be able to draw the models when loading from a save most the time. Load up in this emulator, beat the chapter, and save. So long as you create a save at the end of the chapter, and usually in the base, you should be safe and able to load the save in your normal emulator. If you can go back to the base, try resaving in the base and seeing if it loads back up in your main emulator.

Also, savestates savestates savestates

[Ryan7556]

Anyway I had an earlier savestate around chapter 8, now I'm at chapter 11 and using savestates while using the ingame save at the base. No problems doing this so far. Good thing right now is that Boyd is almost ready to promote, where as he was near ready to promote at chapter 15. I'm thinking of giving the master seals to Rhys and mist, I hear there are powerful magic users later on in MM, is this true?

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

I'm thinking of giving the master seals to Rhys and mist, I hear there are powerful magic users later on in MM, is this true?

Nah, Rhys is a pretty crappy combat unit in HM. The only reason you'd want to promote Mist is so that she gets a mount. Although she can do okay with a Sonic Sword keep in mind that Tanith is pretty awesome with it as well.

[Anouleth]

If you're early-promoting Mist, she's awful with the Sonic Sword. She tears stuff up with it if she's properly trained, but that's easier said than done. Rhys is in an even worse position since his speed is worse and he generally gets weighed down and he has less movement and he can't take leftover forges. Forging Light tomes is absurdly expensive, even with the money you get in this game.

[Narga_Rocks]

Nah, Rhys is a pretty crappy combat unit in HM. The only reason you'd want to promote Mist is so that she gets a mount. Although she can do okay with a Sonic Sword keep in mind that Tanith is pretty awesome with it as well.

If you're early-promoting Mist, she's awful with the Sonic Sword. She tears stuff up with it if she's properly trained, but that's easier said than done. Rhys is in an even worse position since his speed is worse and he generally gets weighed down and he has less movement and he can't take leftover forges. Forging Light tomes is absurdly expensive, even with the money you get in this game.

I would assume that by "powerful magic users" he meant that there would res-targetting enemies that are powerful. He'd then be asking if it is worth promoting units capable of high res. However, this would only make sense if he is talking about Mist. Rhys would do so little damage to those types of enemies that it wouldn't even be worth contemplating. Mist can use physical weapons to target the lower def stat of those types of enemies while taking little damage in return (compared to what I must assume would be lots of damage taken by your more melee-oriented units).

Now, against enemies like the 44 mt Fenrir wielding druids in fe6 I'd love to have a unit like Mist. (Fenrir was 15 mt dark 1-2 range in that game unlike all the others that have a 3-10 range Fenrir.) But I don't think there are powerful enough weapons in fe9 for them to get quite that high. Still, maybe you run into 35+ mt magic enemies?

[Ryan7556]

I'm mainly using Rhys and Mist as healers, I'm going to keep them out of combat since all my other units can handle that. I was thinking about an earlier promotion so that they could at least defend themselves and have a better chance of surviving. Rhys might make a good magical wall but I'm not even going to try and use him as an offensive unit.

Also Boyd seems to have 11 resistance right now as a level 3 warrior.

Edited August 17, 2010 by Axefighter Barst

[Anouleth]

I would assume that by "powerful magic users" he meant that there would res-targetting enemies that are powerful. He'd then be asking if it is worth promoting units capable of high res. However, this would only make sense if he is talking about Mist. Rhys would do so little damage to those types of enemies that it wouldn't even be worth contemplating. Mist can use physical weapons to target the lower def stat of those types of enemies while taking little damage in return (compared to what I must assume would be lots of damage taken by your more melee-oriented units).

Now, against enemies like the 44 mt Fenrir wielding druids in fe6 I'd love to have a unit like Mist. (Fenrir was 15 mt dark 1-2 range in that game unlike all the others that have a 3-10 range Fenrir.) But I don't think there are powerful enough weapons in fe9 for them to get quite that high. Still, maybe you run into 35+ mt magic enemies?

hahaha not even close. Most Sages struggle to break 30 mt, and resistance is generally so high that Sages aren't a major issue unless you're Largo (only 28ATK is needed to 2HKO iirc) or Gatrie. Siege tome sages are a little more dangerous, as are Thunder sages since they can have critical rates on many units.

[Narga_Rocks]

I'm told they are only 2 levels higher in MM, but there are more enemies. Is this true throughout the game or only near the beginning? Many magic users are pulling high 20s in HM in the late 20s chapters. They might crack 30 in MM. Have you played MM, Anouleth?

It's a shame, though, that they aren't sending you against the things you see in fe6. 29 magic druids and 26 strength wyvern lords. They were annoying, but they were a nice threat.

Anyway, even if you are 3HKOd, it would be somewhat annoying to face multiple mages in MM. However, you have half the bexp and Mist is more reliant on bexp than most units. Units like Boyd and Titania can get by with the increased cexp from the extra enemies.

[Tables]

From what I've seen, enemy levels are much higher around the mid-late game. I've been told that you don't see unpromoted enemies after chapter 17, and all enemies are about level 20/4-6 at that point. On HM, I think they're about 18-20 and 20/1-3. But Soul might know better.

[Ryan7556]

Just got to chapter 18, all enemies are promoted except for Wyvern riders who are level 17. I think there are even more longer range magic users here than on previous difficulties.