H3 (Lunatic) Tier List

[Colonel M]

Malliesia has Hammerne. Everyone seems to miss that too. :/

[Deliriyum]

Malliesia has Hammerne. Everyone seems to miss that too. :/

How many hammernes are there in this game? I would be saving the uses for forged weapons and legendaries at the end.

[Colonel M]

How many hammernes are there in this game? I would be saving the uses for forged weapons and legendaries at the end.

3. It's likely being used on Rescue and Again Staves though.

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Healbotting sucks to compare to everyone else. You're going to need at least 2 lolhealbots in your pt, so why tier them against the rest of the cast? Unique Utility basically means "you will use at least one of these units (and not for combat), so comparing them to the rest of the cast is moot" and that pretty much sums up staffers.

[Colonel M]

Sorry to nitpock, but chances are that you are using Chainey for combat.

[grandjackal]

I have to question Roddy being above Gordon, namely because I have to question what Roddy's use is.

Let's look at the chapters Roddy exists that Gordon doesn't. 3-P. What's there to say? He's another person on the team. It's hard to measure someone being worthwhile when it's simply dependent on all to get passed. He's got use here, but so do the other 3 guys. I would say he brings attention off MU, but even fi MU is attacked the enemy either attacks Roddy or Ryan anyways.

P-4 is a dependent issue. 1. Are we going Athena or George route? Let's see if we go down Athena route.

First off, these guys.

Myrmidon (Steel Sword): 25 HP, 16 (17) Atk, 113 (114) Hit, 11 AS, 3 Def, 0 Res, 6 (7) Crit

Roddy isn't ORKOd thanks to lances nulling their rank and reducing 3 might (7-8x2 damage), BUT I point him out due to functionality. Giving EXP to Luke to proc speed could ensure we have someone who is 3-4RKOd by these guys. It's in the case that Shiida starts to get a bit weak so you can switch her and him out while Ryan shoots from behind and Wrys heals. Roddy does not have thi ssort of use since it's impossuble for him to get more than 1 level from P-3.

Athena (Steel Sword): 37 HP, 19 Atk, 117 (118) Hit, 16 (17) AS, 4 Def, 0 Res, 7 Crit

This also ORKOs him while does not ORKO Luke. Since Ryan can shoot over the shoulder and over the wall at the archer near Athena, Wrys heals, Luke can switch out with Shiida in an emergency? It's safe to say Roddy's the worst here.

But who is to say it's better to take her route? If we're going this route, we're most likely using an MU who cannot handle themselves. If we go George's route, chances are we have an MU who can 2RKO and dish out the offense rather than be dependent on the actions of others. For example, look at Paperblade's run. Replace Athena with MU (who is much more useful overall in terms of the game), and replace Mage MU with Gordon. Gordon doing the chip utility in exchange for a more offensive MU sounds like a great trade to me. While this is not a credit to Gordon for giving us the better MU (since it is not his fault we have such an MU), but rather he's the result. How this effects Roddy is by the chapter we go through, with going George's chapter. Most of his use is standing the initial sets of enemies so that the next turn Luke can get a kill somewhere, then chipping an archer after Ryan draws them in (yes, he can take two of them), then chipping an archer or George. While more useful than he was in Athena's chapter, it's not by much.

Once hey meet, Roddy's just sort of an auxillery unit until you get guys like Ogma/Draug and Cain/Est on your team. Even if the first one replaces Cecile before Roddy, Roddy's next.

So, how many levels we need to get him to survive the common bandit in chapter 1 when he comes back? He would need 3 for the 22 HP. Problem is, due to WTA and that enemies have A rank, he has to use swords. This is a problem, because this means he's stuck with approximately 12 might to work with, something Gordon beats with Iron despite having access to Steel. He would like to use his Steel Lance, which comes with a problem. A. It gets him OHKOd, and B. He's got a base acc of 87 with a steel lance, which is reduced to 77 displayed due to WTD. Considering if you have this equipped, having an 11.5% chance of dying on player phase, and 100% on enemy phase. Gordon beats his pretty handily thanks to not taking counters when he does his chip damage. In fact, I'll rub salt in hte wound and say that Gordon as a hunter at base has 23 HP and 5 Def, which is just enough to survive a 27 ATK bandit, and 8 AS avoids being doubled. Better hope Roddy didn't get speed screwed with those levels, as bandits have 10 AS and Roddy's playing dice with his 6 base speed.

How much might does he have with steel? Well, after 3 levels he has about 16 (losing to Gordon's 17 might with steel, base Gordon though I would doubt Gordon could get an extra point of strength quickly without a lucky proc). However, against axers it's down to 15. This is Cecile damage. At least when Cecile's doing it she has a Sword which reduces axers to 78 hit and doesn't miss. In the least, this says that Cecile's a better finisher, unless there's credit to chipping at hunters now, because that must be so hard. Even then he has a greater chance of fucking up since he's working with a less accurate weapon. Javelins can hardly be counted since you get them about halfway through the chapter, and I can tell you that javelins are not necessary for an easy completion of chapter 1. In fact, I would still give more credit to Gordon since getting to Lawrence requires passing through a chokepoint, where Gordon shooting over the shoulder helps more than Roddy with his lol 9-10 might attack.

Chapter 2 rols around and you would think it would roll better for Roddy since now there's more spear and sword using enemies. This would be true, if Catria didn't show up and take his Steel Lance away from him. You could argue you could give her Draug's, but considering Draug absolutely shitstomps Roddy as a cavalier...

So now all he's left with are Javelins. Do I really have to compare 10 ATK to 17? I'll put that in perspective. Soldiers I believe have 3 or 4 Def. Roddy needs to land two attacks to do the damage Gordon does in 1. Roddy's got about 77-78 acc with this before enemy avoid is factored of which fluctuates between 9 and 11. Gordon's got about 89 hit, given he got no sill or luck over this time. At least Draug does around 10 damage when he's playing with one of these things. Not that he needs to when he's 2RKOing with Steel usually (18 might to 29 HP and 3 Def). It can also be shown there that Roddy's taking valuable enemy phase away from us by taking the front lines, so even if he CAN take a shot, it's not necessarily wise to let him do so. Gordon doesn't have to worry about that. 7 damage is also not helping anyone avoid a counter unless it's Draug failing to do so by 1 freaking damage, something of which Gordon can take care of too. Then there's the bunch of fliers near the throne. I should just end the conversation there.

Chapter 3 is when unit slots start to tighten up, and it's here I have to question fielding Roddy at all. Marth, MU, Aran, Draug, Catria, archers for the fliers (like Gordon, and especially Gordon since he's most liely the strongest one here), Marissa, Luke. I believe there is 1 last slot for competition, and it is between Roddy and Cecile. Cecile could proc HP and be able to lure in axe dracos (they have 24 might, which is kinda weird since the lancers have 26 ATK). Roddy most likely could proc an HP and have that and the lance dracos, but on top of that he needs 2 speed as otherwise they double him with 11 AS. Cecile could even have the Lady Sword since Catria's most likely flying for this mission in order to help Marth along his path through the stream of cavaliers, given that MU isn't a female Myrm. Now, Roddy could help Marth along that path with his loljavelins, but considering you will have Paula, Catria, Draco Arran and Bord with Hand Axes (Why not? He's on the way there) and how cramped it is, I can only venture that he would serve as nothing more than a clog that works against you. Even if you chose Roddy, Gordon wins by default here since there's no question that he's going to be showing up here.

But let's say you chose you chose Roddy anyways. Next chapter has 5 slots. I doubt he's showing up. Your heavy hitters exist as MU, Catria, Paula and Arran. There's still 1 slot open of which to fit Gordon in, and why wouldn't I? If it can help Rapier Marth or Silver Lance Paula/Arran avoid a counter from the first set of armors, it helps, or could act defensively against the first set of archers there. Beats whatever the hell Roddy's doing.

Chapter 4 I won't consider since unless you're flying, you're probably stuck in the same boat: Fighting off the bandits at the start. But past that, Roddy's now got to contend with lolSirius, Ogma and Shiida. Roddy's adventure ends here.

So, Roddy might have a few more chapters, but who would be the more useful overall? Because I would say that Roddy's barely better than Cecile, if at all. Gordon requires no investment, he's reletively low risk, and has better offense. Only thing he loses is Move, which hardly matters since Roddy's most likely hanging back and letting heavier hitters do the work he fails at doing.

[fatgamecat]

Rodys only decent class seems to be hunter, as he makes a pretty crappy cavalier. Rody makes a better long term bow user than Gordin due to his high SPD growth, but he requires a lot more effort than hunter Draug due to starting at lv 1.

[grandjackal]

Rodys only decent class seems to be hunter, as he makes a pretty crappy cavalier. Rody makes a better long term bow user than Gordin due to his high SPD growth, but he requires a lot more effort than hunter Draug due to starting at lv 1.

It's fine and dandy that Roddy's got better long term since lategame actually matters now (that is unless someone discovers something miraculous about the vastly unimpressive-looking lategame units), but the problem is is he really any better than Draug in that regard? Cause it's not like Draug is earlygame only himself.

However, this is not about Draug. BUT, if we make Roddy into a hunter, what do we get? We just get Ryan with more Speed growth but worse rank. 12 might on top of it is not much better than his javelin prowess. In the least, it takes Roddy ages to be something worthwhile, since he's outclassed off the bat by essentially every earlygame archer you could name outside of Cecile, midgame is out-utilized by George who comes free, and lategame I could have several units just as capable, like Sirius who doesn't mind archer himself.

Gordon's function is that he can be useful while being EXP economic. Roddy's problem comes in the form that he needs EXP to function as something better than crap. You have to think as if you're using him seriously. Gordon, you know you will just use him to chip as to help your core units avoid counters and get the kill exp. Roddy isn't like Luke who actually grows into something pretty cool pretty quick. He's gotta work with a weapon type that's not quite so awesome anymore, and as a core unit he's generally outclassed by units like Draug, Luke and Sirius. Gordon does not become outclassed in his use for a good long while (up until George and the Excalibur mages). Roddy's got that much time to pick up the pace.

It sucks really. Even if Roddy gets good around this point, what's he got that the likes of Paula, Katria and Sirius don't have? They can fly around the valley with Dragonpikes too. Difference being they haven't been devouring EXP since P-3 to do what they do. He has to work for a long time just to break even. After that, I highly doubt he starts outclassing anyone.

Lvl 15 Roddy: 31.2 HP, 13 Str, 12 Skl, 14.1 Spd, 13.4 Lck, 11.6 Def

Base Raiden: 34 HP, 12 Str, 14 Skl, 14 Spd, 10 Lck, 11 Def

1400 EXP and we get Raiden with minimal leads. Considering Raiden is a "good enough to function" character, this is a long time for Roddy to finally break even with EXP that could have gone to Luke or MU to make them better.

Thus Roddy's problem. He competes for EXP, Gordon does not because Gordon does not care. I have to deal with Roddy being lame until damn near lategame before he hits even while I can just toss Gordon in the trash once I'm done with earlygame. It would come to stand that Gordon has actual utilic value while Roddy does not as he will only be necessary until you get better choices. Gordon could actually be counted as a good to decent choice for a while. Because of this, the conclusion comes that Gordon>Roddy.

[fatgamecat]

Yeah it's unfortunate that his best class is hunter yet he starts at lv 1 with E bows and crap bases for his level. I'm still interested in trying him as an experiment though.

[grandjackal]

While your here, I got a question.

You've been using Ryan seriously at all? If so, mind telling me what his level was by the time of George's appearance?

[fatgamecat]

While your here, I got a question.

You've been using Ryan seriously at all? If so, mind telling me what his level was by the time of George's appearance?

On my first run I didn't use Ryan past the first few chapters. I left him around lv 8 or so. On my second run I've been using him more, but I haven't gotten to Jeorge yet. I keep getting hung up on Ryans low SPD, mostly, which makes him pretty much only useful for one shotting fliers or maybe using the hero bow.

[grandjackal]

It's alright, I just wanna know what level you can get him to by George's arrival. If anything, it would be better to see how high he gets even when screwed.

Idea I'm having here is this. In most Fire Emblems, the idea was that if...Let's say we use...Dorothy and Klein as an example. On arrival if Dorothy can get to level 10 when Klein shows up, she is...Very much the same person. Problem is, she's not much better, she's nearly identical. She has better growths, but why would I care when I could use Klein resource free?

The situation is not the same in this game, because even as they grow, you won't really notice the loss of Dorothy when using Klein. In this game, lategame actually matters, and if Ryan can get a significant speed lead for between the time of returning to mainland and the dragon's altar...That question returns.

Why use Ryan when George comes resource free?

Answer: We might actually miss Ryan later on when they both do the exact same thing now. If he doubles things like Paladins when returning to mainland, we will regret using George. Ryan supports built up with units like Luke, MU and Marth so he gives 5 crit/10acc/10avoid to MU and Luke, and is capable of 15 crit on return (12 crit fromm his promoted and inevitably maxed out Skill+10 from sniper+15 from these supports=37). If Ryan is doubling we sure as hell are going to miss that if we drop him for George.

This is of course a different question for Roddy.

Question: What does Roddy do that Raiden can't when Raiden is resource free?

Answer: Aside from supports, they're nearly the same guy and Raiden can get by no trouble. Not that Raiden can't make up for that either since unlike Goerge, he actually has a viable support from a guy who would KILL for a buddy: Sirius. It won't be too powerful, but helping Sirius when he normally wouldn't get help is a nice perk at least.

[Don Draper]

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Edited July 26, 2020 by Don Draper

[grandjackal]

Ok then, I suppose that's something Roddy has going for him, he supports people back.

Still, I don't think he's by any means a gamechanger for his teammates considering the exp going to him could have gone to the ones he supports making them stronger that way. I still feel he doesn't have enough going for him to place him above Gordon due to Gordon's instant utilic value.

[fatgamecat]

Ok then, I suppose that's something Roddy has going for him, he supports people back.

Still, I don't think he's by any means a gamechanger for his teammates considering the exp going to him could have gone to the ones he supports making them stronger that way. I still feel he doesn't have enough going for him to place him above Gordon due to Gordon's instant utilic value.

After trying Rody as a hunter I'd rather just take Draug. I don't think Rody's supports, bases, and growths make up for his 500 XP loss to Draug, which makes him dead weight for quite a lot longer than Draug (read: not enough SPD to double enemies).

So if you're going to dispose of most of the early game archers anyway, I guess you'd just take the ones with the highest stats/wlvl + draug and leave it at that.

[grandjackal]

This is why I was curious about Ryan, because he can catch up to his big brother Gordon rather quickly, then surpass him. My question with Ryan here is if he can surpass George in the same way by the time he arrives.

Now I dunno what Reverse mode is like, so I am under the assumption that archers for the most part are doing chipping quite a bit witht he occasional kill, as I was able to get Warren to level 10 by chapter 9, which means that Ryan could be 12-13. If anyone else could replicate this, Ryan could be this when George shows up.

Lvl 12 Ryan, 3 archer levels with 9 Hunter

29 HP, 14 Str, 14 Skl, 11 Spd, 7 Lck, 8 Def, 0 Res

52 might with silver against flyers. I recall flyers having around 8-9 Def, so he does about 43-44 damage. I'm pretty sure that if you have any sort of problems, he can be given an Str orb (of which are plentiful). Or hell, just promote him and switch him over to sniper.

35 HP, 15 Str, 18 Skl, 14 Spd, 7 Lck, 12 Def, 3 Res

Compare that to George

32 HP, 12 Str, 14 Skl, 14 Spd, 5 Lck, 13 Def, 3 Res

Then growths.

Ryan: 80 HP, 50 Str, 80 Skl, 50 Spd, 40 Lck, 35 Def

George: 80 HP, 40 Str, 35 Skl, 45 Spd, 50 Lck, 40 Def

He's never going to win HP, Str, Skl or Lck. Def hardly matters to a Sniper, since rarely are they attacked outside of hte occasional flying being and dragon (which case they'd just swat them out of the air before it matters, so...). The skill loss is also pretty heavy, since you gain a point of crit every point above 20, and Ryan closes in on that quick. Along with a support with MU and Luke, it'll soon get to the point where every 3rd shot is going to kill something.

Now this is if we promote him early. If he can OHKO flying dragons just fine unpromoted, he might as well stay since he's well and strong enough to make up for hte might deficit made by weapon rank, though George would still have Parthia under his belt. I know for a fact it's possible for someone to get ludicrous amounts of levels here, even an archer. Ryan could get 6 levels for the 3 George would have gotten. As a hunter, that's 3 Str to George's 1. It's 2 speed to George's 1. It's 4-5 skill to George's 1 (and this constitutes as +3 crit post promotion, and growing 1 point per skill point from there forward while George isn't close to that along with no supports to give more crit).

So, if that can be accurately replicated, I'd say either Ryan should rise higher, or possibly George should lower. George's reasoning for his loweing is his pre-promote status might not be as glorious as it is in other games. He's still a great filler, but if we can do without...

Makes me wonder about Warren as well, because Warren are practically the exact same unit as Ryan outside of what level they'd be upon meeting. But, if Warren can catch up then George is still screwed.

And yeah, Roddy just feels completely outclassed now, doesn't he?

Edited August 23, 2010 by Etzel's Hips

[fatgamecat]

I'd say you can get Ryan or Rody to about levels 12-13 by the end of Ch 8 if you use one of them regularly. And you can get Draug to about 15-17 by the end of Ch 8 due to his level lead, which is why I'd prefer him, because he'll be doubling things sooner and he can likely take a hit from the Ch 9 dracos who have 20 SPD, whereas the other bow users will get doubled and splatted.

Edited August 23, 2010 by mjemirzian

[Seven Deadly Sins]

I've been using Ryan in my latest playthrough, and he's at level 7 at the beginning of ch5. For reference, Draug is level 11 at the beginning of ch5 (woo str blessed +2)

Also, I don't think this matters much for the purpose of this tier list so far, but if Linde gets one of the buyable Angelic Robes, she can 2hko pretty much anything with Aura, not get doubled, and eventually once she starts doubling stuff, start Resire tanking. That said, ALL of her success has been due to her Angelic Robe, so...

[fatgamecat]

I've been using Ryan in my latest playthrough, and he's at level 7 at the beginning of ch5. For reference, Draug is level 11 at the beginning of ch5 (woo str blessed +2)

Also, I don't think this matters much for the purpose of this tier list so far, but if Linde gets one of the buyable Angelic Robes, she can 2hko pretty much anything with Aura, not get doubled, and eventually once she starts doubling stuff, start Resire tanking. That said, ALL of her success has been due to her Angelic Robe, so...

I considered giving Linde a robe for tanking like that, but it feels a little too limited to be worth leveling her up for. Maybe someone will prove me wrong and show her tanking the Ch 20 reinforcements with a Resire, but they'd probably have to stack more than one robe for that, and probably some +mag and +def too.

[grandjackal]

I've been using Ryan in my latest playthrough, and he's at level 7 at the beginning of ch5. For reference, Draug is level 11 at the beginning of ch5 (woo str blessed +2)

That and being a base level of 5. Buddy Ryan and Draug seem to have gotten the same amount of levels despite Ryan having more time. Draug's got great base speed, but it's only 11 if he's going Hunter. Ryan can normally come out of prologue in a way as to do the same thing Draug's doing as a hunter with the exception that Ryan has Steel and could have C rank.

Draug though is very flexible, and can basically be whatever the hell he wants since he's got the bases to basically ignore his rank problem outside of flyer slaying utility.

At the start, he is inferior to Ryan and Gordon going archers. They can go Hunter too, and they could have 9-10 Str, Ryan having C rank to make up for any possible gap, and Gordon definitely having 10 Str. They'd do the same, if not more damage with the same weapon, and have steel where Draug doesn't. Draug obviously has the advantage later on since his speed actually exists and that's all an archer wth a high base Str really gives a shit about, but they are better than him at the start if he goes hunter.

Personally, I'd prefer Draug as a Cav, since he's got lol 18 might with Steel, and 15 might is still pretty painful with swords. Basically it's the question of "Do I want another Ryan/Gordon, or do I want another Luke?".

Also, I don't think this matters much for the purpose of this tier list so far, but if Linde gets one of the buyable Angelic Robes, she can 2hko pretty much anything with Aura, not get doubled, and eventually once she starts doubling stuff, start Resire tanking. That said, ALL of her success has been due to her Angelic Robe, so...

We still haven't figured this shit out yet? There's 3 of each one of them, right? Or 1 of each? Regardless...

Angel Robe: Linda's a good choice, but Cecile can be too, since it's possible that at times she will be your only Lady Sword user for when the pegasus sisters are off doing their flying thing as opposed to being on the ground as cavs. For quite a few early missions, that's quite a bit. Chapter 6, 10 and 10x are maps where the pegasus sisters might end up cavs. Cecile can pick up a nice bit of offensive lag if given the robe and Lady Sword. It could prove to be a damper on Linda, since Cecile is more likely to frontline.

Energy Drop: Aran. Yes, Aran. Silver Lance and Energy Drop allows him to 2RKO dracos. This can prove to be a major time saver in chapter 2 as it allows you to be more aggressive.

Spirit Dust: You might have to wait a while for this one.

Secret Book: Nope

Speedwing: Name me someone who needs 15 AS on the double for earlygame, we'll take it form there since obviously that could be huge.

Ashera Icon: Could give it to Draug if you're THAT worried about it.

Dracoshield: +2 Def ain't as strong as it used to be. I dunno, early promo Paula?

Talisman: You are made of stupid.

[Don Draper]

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Edited July 26, 2020 by Don Draper

[grandjackal]

34 HP and 5 Def at promotion after 20/1. 20/3 with a Robe, she could manage that.

[fatgamecat]

Draug is better off as a hunter or fighter since you already get a lot of good spear users (Catria, Palla, Shiida, Sirius).

Don't forget Linde has to be absorbing more HP than she's taking if you want her to tank successfully.

There's 3 of each stat boost item in the shop, although you'll be limited by funds in what you can purchase chapter by chapter.

I'd give the first Angelic Robe to Catria. She doesn't usually cap HP since she spends quite a lot of her early levels as a pegasus and you'll probably early promote her so she misses out on a bunch of HP there as well. Second Angelic Robe should go to Shiida, who is naturally weak in the HP department. Third robe I'm not sure about.

Energy Drops I'd give the first to Marth so his Rapier is more effective. Second to Shiida to help her Wing Spear and also because her STR naturally sucks. Third I'd suggest Catria or maybe another one on Shiida.

Speedwings I'd give the first to Marth so he can double the 3x knights - he will probably need one anyway to avoid being doubled by Medeus, so it's not like it's wasted. Second would go to Palla, because she's naturally slow. Third I would give to Draug or possibly Sirius.

Dragon Shields will be good on Catria and My Unit to buff their potential as Generals when the need arises. Same with Talismans - you will be begging for more +RES when those Ch 20 sages show up and deal 30-35 DMG to your generals per hit even with holy water.

Spirit Dust, Secret Books, and Ashera Icons are probably not worth the money.

[Paperblade]

There's also the issue of Resire's limited uses and the fact that the Fortify Bishops will likely outheal any damage she does.

Although being able to tank them is still useful in and of itself.

Edited August 23, 2010 by Paperblade

[Deliriyum]

A speedwing on Palla seems rather useless. She isn't slow. She just has a low growth rate. What I did on my PT, was I promoted her early before chapter 5, and made her a general for that chapter, then kept her as a draco for awhile. Then when I got to the dragon part of the game, I made her a SM, and I think she had ~25 speed at around level 7. Pretty good speed if you ask me, she could instantly use a wyvernslayer too. I could've made her a SM earlier to try to boost her weapons ranks.

I'd rather give the speedwing to Luke, who will have more problems with speed.