Unpromoted Units Playlog

[Grace]

Alright, so I just finished a playthrough on NM without promoting anyone (Except at the final chapter, because no one could stand a chance against Medeus, let alone the generics) or using prepromotes. So I've decided, I'm going to do it again.

BUT

Not on NM. I'm going to do it on one of the HM's. However, I'm not sure which would be appropriate. I was considering H2 or H3. I know what H3 is like, I've completed it normally before. Never done H2, H4, or H5. My questions are:

-Are there any Braves in H2? (I know H3 has them in the final chapter)

-Is H3(or above) suicide without using Jagen, and should I bend the rules if so?

-Allow warp-skipping?

-Any other suggestions?

For clarification, here's the rule set:

-No promoted characters can be used, period. (aside from Jagen and Gotoh)

-No promoting characters until the final chapter. It would make it bearable.

-No warp-skipping

So, I pass the question: Which difficulty?

Edited August 10, 2010 by Mist

[Fayt Zelpher]

There are absolutely no brave weapons in H2 mode. I just finished a no-warpskip of H2 and never saw a single enemy with them. I can say with certainty that they do not exist.

Also, make your life easier and use a ballastician. They don't technically promote, but they will help a lot (and more than you probably realize). I would say that H2 no promotions (until final) is plenty doable, but Jeigan should probably be used for a chapter or two to make it easier. Also, get Tiki. Please.

The challenge is that you're going to be doubled by 80% of the fire dragons, because they have 23-26 AS on H2 mode. So chapter 24 is going to be a huge pain if you don't promote until the final. :('

Also, Medeus has 29 AS, so don't expect to be able to use Marth beyond the final attack because he will be doubled and he will be killed.

Edited August 8, 2010 by Cocytus

[Charpig]

If you are playing H5, it is quite difficult, if not impossible, to pass the early chapters without using Jagen. On my H5 playthrough I never had to use any pre-promoted unit other than Jagen, but I didn't leave my units unpromoted either.....

What's your stance on gaiden chapters? Are you going to go to them or not?

Be a man and do H5. If it's possible to beat it with 0% growths, it's possible to beat it with unpromoted units that do gain stats.

Tips:

Boss Abuse, don't worry about efficiency unless you're making videos for us to watch.

Marth may turn out to be a surprisingly good fighter, his caps can go above 20. Julian can reach 30 Spd so he is NOT doubled by Fire Dragons (though he's not a great fighter, I'm just pointing this truth out).

I would go with Cocytus's advice, use Ballisticians and Tiki.

If you're banning use of Gotoh, Tiki and Nagi can attack in tandem with their Divinestones to kill Medeus (though you will have to sacrifice Tiki)

Warpskipping is VERY useful for the final, but if you want to forego it, make sure you bring along enough units to block the areas where reinforcements appear, especially the Ballisticians.

You may want to buy some items from the Online Shop, if you are into that.

Use your statboosters wisely.

I may do an H4 playthrough with unpromoted units, since I recently started an H4 run and haven't gotten very far. If I get to it before you (not likely), I will tell you how it goes, and what pain you can expect. I remember that on my first H5 playthrough, I had gotten a bunch of units to level 20 due to Boss Abuse, but couldn't promote them due to a lack of Master Seals (I didn't use the Online Shop). I got a bunch of Master Seals from Chapter 23, and promoted my remaining units. I then tried to use these freshly promoted units to gain EXP before the final. Those units had a fair amount of trouble in Chapter 24 until they got several levels, I didn't warpskip. Unpromoted units are gonna be in even more trouble. So be advised that traditional tactics may not avail you much on this type of playthrough. But, in all honesty, you won't really be affected until the lategame chapters by using unpromoted units (Chapters 3 and onward tend to be easy enough without Jagen).

Edited August 10, 2010 by Charpig

[eclipse]

Julian can also wield the Wyrmslayer, which will make killing dragons easier. . .but he will need a Seraph Robe at minimum to make sure he doesn't kill himself in the process.

[Grace]

There are absolutely no brave weapons in H2 mode. I just finished a no-warpskip of H2 and never saw a single enemy with them. I can say with certainty that they do not exist.

Also, make your life easier and use a ballastician. They don't technically promote, but they will help a lot (and more than you probably realize). I would say that H2 no promotions (until final) is plenty doable, but Jeigan should probably be used for a chapter or two to make it easier. Also, get Tiki. Please.

The challenge is that you're going to be doubled by 80% of the fire dragons, because they have 23-26 AS on H2 mode. So chapter 24 is going to be a huge pain if you don't promote until the final. :('

Also, Medeus has 29 AS, so don't expect to be able to use Marth beyond the final attack because he will be doubled and he will be killed.

Advice taken on board. Not looking forward to bashing Medeus.

If you are playing H5, it is quite difficult, if not impossible, to pass the early chapters without using Jagen. On my H5 playthrough I never had to use any pre-promoted unit other than Jagen, but I didn't leave my units unpromoted either.....

Right, so Jagen use is now allowed. I don't think it'll change much.

What's your stance on gaiden chapters? Are you going to go to them or not?

Going to all of them, I need to.

Be a man and do H5. If it's possible to beat it with 0% growths, it's possible to beat it with unpromoted units that do gain stats.

That's easy to say. I've never completed H5. And dondon had prepromotes with better bases, and warpskipping. Gaining stats may be a benefit, but having to bash through whole chapters is not as easy. It kinda balances, but not in my favor.

Tips:

Boss Abuse, don't worry about efficiency unless you're making videos for us to watch.

Yeah, I may need to do that. Not gonna be fun, but...

Marth may turn out to be a surprisingly good fighter, his caps can go above 20. Julian can reach 30 Spd so he is NOT doubled by Fire Dragons (though he's not a great fighter, I'm just pointing this truth out).

That's if I can get Marth to function properly. I'll try, though. About Juilan, I think eclipse put it best:

Julian can also wield the Wyrmslayer, which will make killing dragons easier. . .but he will need a Seraph Robe at minimum to make sure he doesn't kill himself in the process.

Rocking a forged Wyrmslayer would probably make him surprisingly useful. Maybe some defense boosters as well...

I would go with Cocytus's advice, use Ballisticians and Tiki.

Yep, definitely useful advice.

If you're banning use of Gotoh, Tiki and Nagi can attack in tandem with their Divinestones to kill Medeus (though you will have to sacrifice Tiki)

I probably should have clarified, but Gotoh is allowed. But I'll probably get Nagi anyway, so Medeus is a quick kill.

Warpskipping is VERY useful for the final, but if you want to forego it, make sure you bring along enough units to block the areas where reinforcements appear, especially the Ballisticians.

No warpskipping, at all. It's going to be very hard. But reinforcement blocking is probably going to be the go.

You may want to buy some items from the Online Shop, if you are into that.

Don't have access to it, unfortunately.

Use your statboosters wisely.

Yeah, that's gonna be the fun part.

I may do an H4 playthrough with unpromoted units, since I recently started an H4 run and haven't gotten very far. If I get to it before you (not likely), I will tell you how it goes, and what pain you can expect. I remember that on my first H5 playthrough, I had gotten a bunch of units to level 20 due to Boss Abuse, but couldn't promote them due to a lack of Master Seals (I didn't use the Online Shop). I got a bunch of Master Seals from Chapter 23, and promoted my remaining units. I then tried to use these freshly promoted units to gain EXP before the final. Those units had a fair amount of trouble in Chapter 24 until they got several levels, I didn't warpskip. Unpromoted units are gonna be in even more trouble. So be advised that traditional tactics may not avail you much on this type of playthrough. But, in all honesty, you won't really be affected until the lategame chapters by using unpromoted units (Chapters 3 and onward tend to be easy enough without Jagen).

Yeah, tactics are gonna be the most interesting part of this playthrough.

You all provided good advice, and I will take it on board. I'll try H4 first, but if that gets too hard, I'll probably drop back to H3.

[eclipse]

Boots to Marth. I'd do this just to ensure that I can seize if things get too sticky.

If you can somehow pull off three Staff A users with good Magic (10+), I'd blow all three Geospheres on the last chapter. That way, the initial units won't be such a pain (and the two most dangerous units will be dead).

Good luck!

[Grace]

C1: Boss Abuse; the reasoning behind.

Okay, so I got the 10K gold, got 4 Javelins, 2 Iron Lances, 2 Iron Swords and 2 Iron Axes (later went and got 2 more Javelins). Took my time killing the oncoming pirates, gave Marth as many kills as possible. Killed stuff, advanced to boss. Spent a lot of turns Javelin spamming with Shiida and Abel. Mostly missing, but that's the point. Got Shiida to almost A Lances (!) and got Abel to A Lances (!!). I just obsoleted Jagen's Sliver Lance utility. Still gonna use him for Javelins, though. Boss died to Abel's Javelin crit, with 41 disp. hit, and 5 crit.

Turns: 86 (...)

Name   Level Class HP ST MG SK SP LK DF RS WExp
Marth   3.00 Lord  19  6  0  3  8  9  7  0 D Swords
Shiida  4.89 Peg   17  4  1  7 15 11  7  6 B Lances
Cain    2.00 Cav   21  7  0  6  6  4  7  0 D Swords E Lances
Abel    5.19 Cav   22  8  0 10  9  2  7  0 E Swords A Lances
Draug   1.30 Armor 20  7  0  3  3  1  11 0 D Lances
Jagen   1.37 Pally 22  7  1 10  8  1  9  6 D Swords B Lances
Gordin  1.51 Arch  18  5  0  3  4  4  6  0 D Bows
Wrys    1.00 Curat 16  0  2  5  6  2  3  6 E Staves

[dondon151]

That's easy to say. I've never completed H5. And dondon had prepromotes with better bases, and warpskipping. Gaining stats may be a benefit, but having to bash through whole chapters is not as easy. It kinda balances, but not in my favor.

Neither did I (complete H5 before trying 0% growths). You'll still have warpskipping without promoted units (just use Lena, Wrys, Maria, reclassed curates), and you'll have growths to make up for promoted bases. The only things you won't have are classes like DKs and paladins, but you should be fine otherwise.

[Grace]

You'll still have warpskipping without promoted units (just use Lena, Wrys, Maria, reclassed curates)

The problem is, I'm not warpskipping at all. So that ramps up the challenge some more.

Edit: C2 and C3 done.

C2: One Sucky Pirate With AS loss

Title indicates the only death so far. Darros, that is. Another map where I just took my time killing things. Boss died to Silver Lance Shiida (doubling as well) and Javelin Abel. Shiida also hit A Lances in this map. Most characters contributed, I think. Recruited Castor and Darros, with Darros dying not too soon after.

Turns: 24 (much better)

C3: WRYS!!

Only one death this chapter. See above for the bait to keep Fighters from bashing the crap out of me. Carefully maneuvered Shiida to kill the Hunter without having Fighters attacking her, recruited Nabarl, then had to deal with two sets of Fighters over 3 turns. Everyone contributed to the destruction of Fighters. Even Draug (Javelin) and Gordin (-3 AS from Steel Bow). Got Devil Axe, traded Nabarl's Killing Edge to Ogma, killed boss with Ogma and Barst (21 damage with Devil Axe!). Spent 5 turns after killing the boss to give Lena a level.

Turns: 28 (alright enough.)

Name    Level Class HP ST MG SK SP LK DF RS WExp
Marth    4.47 Lord  20  6  0  3  9 10  8  0 D Swords
Shiida   7.11 Peg   19  5  1  9 17 14  8  6 A Lances
Cain     2.80 Cav   21  7  0  6  6  4  7  0 D Swords E Lances
Abel     6.53 Cav   23  9  0 10  9  3  8  0 E Swords A Lances
Draug    1.60 Armor 20  7  0  3  3  1 11  0 D Lances
Jagen    1.61 Pally 22  7  1 10  8  1  9  6 D Swords B Lances
Gordin   1.71 Arch  18  5  0  3  4  4  6  0 D Bows
Wrys    Killed in C3 by Twin Fighter Abuse
Ogma     6.59 Merc  23  7  0 13 12  3  8  0 C Swords  
Barst    5.26 Fight 26 12  0  8 10  5  7  0 D Axes
Bord     2.20 Fight 20  8  0  4  7  1  5  0 C Axes
Cord     2.70 Fight 20  7  0  5  9  5  5  0 E Axes
Darros  Killed in C2 literally just after he was recruited 
Castor   3.10 Hunt  21  7  0  3  6  3  4  0 D Bows
Julian   3.50 Thief 17  4  0  6 12  7  4  0 E Swords
Lena     4.02 Cler  16  0  2  8  8  8  3  8 C Staves
Nabarl   3.10 Myrm  19  5  0  9 11  8  6  0 C Swords 

Edited August 11, 2010 by Mist

[Grace]

So, over the weekend, I knocked off a few chapters without access to internet. Here we go...

C4: Forged +4 MT Wing Spear, called it Ignorance. Due to crappy planning on my part, I had to take on Fighters and Cav's at the same time. Recruited Matthis (it was easier than killing him), recruited Merric, killed boss, grabbed money.

C5: Forged +3 MT Ridersbane, called it Mindless. Don't know why. Recruited Wendell, disarmed him. Got Firestone. Killed off all of Hardin's group. Abused boss with Barst for Axe rank. Killed boss.

C6: Forged +4 MT Hammer, called it Smasher. Went round, killed thieves (missed the KE one, just), got to boss, killed boss. Had less than 15 characters, so off to 6x.

C6x: Forged +10 MT Fire, called it Fireball. Observed the peculiar enemy units with existent Luck stat. (Archers and Bathys, with 3) Went and got Athena, boss abused Cord and Barst's Axe rank. Killed boss.

C7: First order was to recruit Bantu. Did that. Killed Palla, then Excalibur'd Minerva. Plugged the Ridersbane reinforcement fort. Bashed enemies, blocked more forts. A little more boss abuse. Killed boss.

C8: First thing. Reinforcements SUCK IN HM'S! Seriously IS, move on the same turn they spawn? Screw you. Took my time, killing things. Plugged reinforcement forts where possible. Killed boss with Lena/Fire and Shiida/Ignorance.

Name    Level Class HP ST MG SK SP LK DF RS WExp
Marth    8.07 Lord  23  8  0  5 10 13  9  0 C Swords
Shiida  13.20 Peg   22  6  1 12 20 18  9  6 A Lances
Abel    11.58 Cav   28 11  0 12 12  5  8  0 E Swords A Lances
Ogma     8.86 Merc  25  9  0 14 12  4  9  0 B Swords
Barst   12.43 Fight 33 15  0 10 12  9  7  0 B Axes
Cord    10.11 Fight 27 12  0  5 13  8  6  0 C Axes
Julian   7.10 Thief 27  6  0  7 13 11  6  0 D Swords
Lena    12.98 Mage  17  0  8 10 10 11  4  8 E Tomes (B Staves)
Merric   8.59 Curat 23  0  4  6  9  6  6  8 E Staves (D Tomes)
Roger    6.73 Merc  20  6  0  9 15  3  7  0 E Swords (D Lances)
Bantu 

Notes: Julian got the C6 Robe, and generics are starting to flow in.

[Darros]

So your Merric is copying my Merric by getting curate MAG screwed!

[Grace]

Aside from the whole "I had him as Mage until C8" And he's probably only got 1, maybe 2 levels as Curate. It's worse.