Wicca and Paganism

[Hatari]

I was curious to know what people think of these religions and what they know about them. Does anyone here practice?

[Strawman]

My Sister in law's sister has recently got into Wicca/Witchcraft or whatever it is. I don't know anything about it but my brother and my parents are really worried about it...

[Celice]

A large amount of Western, modern people, youths, have turned to it as a cultural thing, more for shits'n'giggles than an actual religion. They don't know shit about any of the Old Gods and Goddesses. It's mostly just fad movements and illogical connections.

Paganism is a very, very loose and broad term, if memory serves. So just randomly remembering different religions and myths, like all myths, there's usually "good" stuff that's being said.

I'm a fan of the old Norse myself. Sadly, all we really have is an Edda worth of poems, and that's all. And "Skaldi's a bitch," or something like that... :P

[Furby]

A friend of mine is a Wiccan. He once explained some of it to me while we were supposed to be running the mile in Gym Class. I think he said something about everyone having a native spirit that follows them around and he could sorta see them. He said mine was some sort of death spirit.

Which, now that I Think about it, makes me very much like Light from Death Note. THis was before the Death Note craze hit the U.S., mind you.

[eclipse]

I've seen enough to know that it's not for me. There's some things that I don't want to mess with. Ever.

[Esau of Isaac]

A friend of mine is a Wiccan. He once explained some of it to me while we were supposed to be running the mile in Gym Class. I think he said something about everyone having a native spirit that follows them around and he could sorta see them. He said mine was some sort of death spirit.

That would be an awkward thing to have to hear and respond to.

Though I've heard people claim they're fairy spirits trapped in flesh. So I guess there's enough crazy to go around for everyone.

[Hatari]

I've seen enough to know that it's not for me. There's some things that I don't want to mess with. Ever.

Could you please expand on that?

The whole reason I'm asking about wicca and pagenism is because I'm currently looking into the craft and trying to determine if it is something I would like to get into.

I know a lot of the highly organized religions (Christianity, Catholicism, etc.) are highly against Wiccans, but what I want to know, is that if it's because of the pentagram symbol? From my research, Wiccans use the pentagram as a symbol, but Satanist use the reverse pentagram symbol, which is different. So I want to know if that association is what is turning Wiccans into "devil worshippers" and thus painting them in a bad light for others.

Edited August 11, 2010 by Whisper

[Celice]

Almost all "pagan" cults were lashed at by the Christian cult in a vie for complete control. Any excuse was used. But towards the end, Christian cults just started saying other religions were right, they just went about it the wrong way, and started reshaping the myths so that they reinforced the Christian ones in random ways.

I think there's too much generalization across the two and the only real answers you're going to find on the surface of things now are slightly reminiscent of Neo-Paganism... which again, is a really, really generalized mush of different things that others now assume to be a whole cult that's always existed.

But if you're just looking for something to side with then it really doesn't matter, the specifics, only what you want to side with.

[Hatari]

Almost all "pagan" cults were lashed at by the Christian cult in a vie for complete control. Any excuse was used. But towards the end, Christian cults just started saying other religions were right, they just went about it the wrong way, and started reshaping the myths so that they reinforced the Christian ones in random ways.

I think there's too much generalization across the two and the only real answers you're going to find on the surface of things now are slightly reminiscent of Neo-Paganism... which again, is a really, really generalized mush of different things that others now assume to be a whole cult that's always existed.

But if you're just looking for something to side with then it really doesn't matter, the specifics, only what you want to side with.

This is true as well...there has been a lot of conflict between religions.

and it's not something to really side with. I'm just trying to see how wiccans are viewed by others of different faith, mainly due to said conflicts. Personally, wicca appeals to me, but I'm still in the middle of research.

[Celice]

Well, you can always just make your own religion/beliefs.

Most seem too pansy to do this, or expect that only established institutions and beliefs are things to side with >.> Self-reliance, yo.

[Hatari]

Well, you can always just make your own religion/beliefs.

Most seem too pansy to do this, or expect that only established institutions and beliefs are things to side with >.> Self-reliance, yo.

This is true too.

I have issues with some of the basic beliefs of the established institutions...so hence the reason i'm looking outside of them.

[Sophius]

I personally am a pagan, though I don't actually engage in the majority of the rituals at this time. I honestly find their ethics, teachings, and traditions to be a good deal more sensical than those of modern day religions. As, even if one looks upon their mythology as a metaphor for their practices, pagan practices are far more oriented toward fellowship and betterment of the self. It also recognizes that there is imperfection in all things, and that we are human, as opposed to modern day religion's belief that one instance of straying from the scriptures warrants eternal damnation.

Edited August 11, 2010 by Sophius

[Hatari]

I personally am a pagan, though I don't actually engage in the majority of the rituals at this time. I honestly find their ethics, teachings, and traditions to be a good deal more sensical than those of modern day religions. As, even if one looks upon their mythology as a metaphor for their practices, pagan practices are far more oriented toward fellowship and betterment of the self. It also recognizes that there is imperfection in all things, and that we are human, as opposed to modern day religion's belief that one instance of straying from the scriptures warrants eternal damnation.

The fellowship is what is interesting. As far as I've read, covens can take different shapes.

Either there is a high priestess and/or high priest or everyone is equal and has a say and usually the goddess and her consort or some variation thereof. But this religion is more of a, don't harm us we don't harm you kind of thing correct?

[Sophius]

Yes. Pagan religion take a more philosophical aproach to beliefs. Aceptance that anything is possible and the belief that all things are interconnected are two main principles, meaning that we are a great deal more tolerable of other religions than, say Christians(who I am told often time preach that other religions are blasphemy and that all wo do not follow the christian faith are hellbound). Pagan's generally keep to themselves, and claim democratic origins as opposed to the beuracrat mindset taken by most other religions.

Edited August 11, 2010 by Sophius

[Hatari]

Yes. Pagan religion take a more philosophical aproach to beliefs. Acceptance that anything is possible and the belief that all things are interconnected are two main principles, meaning that we are a great deal more tolerable of other religions than, say Christians(who I am told often time preach that other religions are blasphemy and that all wo do not follow the christian faith are hellbound). Pagan's generally keep to themselves, and claim democratic origins as opposed to the beuracrat mindset taken by most other religions.

That's the major thing that gulls me about institutionalized religion. They preach tolerance, yet are some of the most intolerant people I have ever met. (Excuse the blank statement here, there are many exceptions.)

And yes, I've been told numerous times that I'm going to hell for not being *insert religion here*. Yet, people are not happy if you are atheist or agnostic, they seem to be set on you have to believe in something...(Again, excuse the blanket statement, exceptions are here too).

So, I want something that is just tolerant and you leave me alone, I'll leave you alone, non-politicized religion. Religion is also grounded in politics, which I don't like...aren't most Covens self-run and might have a loose connection to a large group of covens but each retains it's own autonomy.

[Celice]

I think you need to stop researchin the stories and start hittin Emerson and Beckett and literature :P You'd probably find more things that are less conflicting and still interesting than looking towards institutions.

what. Emerson is a cool guy

[Hatari]

I think you need to stop researchin the stories and start hittin Emerson and Beckett and literature :P You'd probably find more things that are less conflicting and still interesting than looking towards institutions.

what. Emerson is a cool guy

Perhaps I shall, though truthfully, philosophy generally gives me a massive massive headache and I can't deal with it for long....

[Defeatist Elitist]

I think Wicca and Paganism are silly, and I can't really take them seriously. They're not really dangerous due to their comparative lack of influence, but I still see them as pointless and poorly though through systems.

[eclipse]

Could you please expand on that?

The whole reason I'm asking about wicca and pagenism is because I'm currently looking into the craft and trying to determine if it is something I would like to get into.

I know a lot of the highly organized religions (Christianity, Catholicism, etc.) are highly against Wiccans, but what I want to know, is that if it's because of the pentagram symbol? From my research, Wiccans use the pentagram as a symbol, but Satanist use the reverse pentagram symbol, which is different. So I want to know if that association is what is turning Wiccans into "devil worshippers" and thus painting them in a bad light for others.

I'm a bit ashamed to say I dabbled in this when I was a lot younger. I found out very quickly that there's some things that are best left alone.

In terms of the second part, I think it's more about the fact that Wiccans don't acknowledge the Christian God as the One and Only God. Also, there's that thing about leaving certain things alone (some Christian sects will have a better idea of what I mean than others).

[Celice]

Perhaps I shall, though truthfully, philosophy generally gives me a massive massive headache and I can't deal with it for long....

Reading words generally gives headaches. But reading stories changes everything. It's easier to digest, and understand, and empathize with.

[TheEnd]

Don't know a thing about Wicca. And as far as Catholicism goes, everyone who wasn't baptized is apparently a Pagan. (That makes my late father a Pagan, by the way. So, I take the whole subject rather humorously.)

That's the major thing that gulls me about institutionalized religion. They preach tolerance, yet are some of the most intolerant people I have ever met. (Excuse the blank statement here, there are many exceptions.)

And yes, I've been told numerous times that I'm going to hell for not being *insert religion here*. Yet, people are not happy if you are atheist or agnostic, they seem to be set on you have to believe in something...(Again, excuse the blanket statement, exceptions are here too).

So, I want something that is just tolerant and you leave me alone, I'll leave you alone, non-politicized religion. Religion is also grounded in politics, which I don't like...aren't most Covens self-run and might have a loose connection to a large group of covens but each retains it's own autonomy.

There are intolerant Christians, Muslims, Atheists... you can't judge a religion by its fanatics. A dick is a dick, and they're all doing it wrong.

But anyway, on the topic of making your own religion, I'd like to voice my disagreement.

The way I see it, religion is the way you relate to the Divine, whatever it may be, and the whole issue of life after death. Unless you can claim THE TRUTH HAS BEEN REVEALED TO ME IN A DREAM or whatever, it's just plainly inappropriate to mix and match different dogmas and make your own. You can't build a God or a path to eternity through your own reasoning. Or maybe we can and don't know of it. But that's another story.

But of course, that isn't all there is to an organized religion; it also includes philosophy and interpretation. Those you should be able to mix, match and twist until they make sense. And they're the most important part. Many big religious issues have a historical root, at least in Christianism, and they don't necessarily hold any more water these days.

[Hatari]

I think Wicca and Paganism are silly, and I can't really take them seriously. They're not really dangerous due to their comparative lack of influence, but I still see them as pointless and poorly thought through systems.

What do you mean by dangerous? Should religions even be dangerous? Dangerous in what way?

In terms of the second part, I think it's more about the fact that Wiccans don't acknowledge the Christian God as the One and Only God. Also, there's that thing about leaving certain things alone (some Christian sects will have a better idea of what I mean than others).

Yes, that is also a major point. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most, if not all, of the major religions only have one god?

Reading words generally gives headaches. But reading stories changes everything. It's easier to digest, and understand, and empathize with.

Stories are generally good...and yeah, reading words provides hours of headaches.

There are intolerant Christians, Muslims, Atheists... you can't judge a religion by its fanatics. A dick is a dick, and they're all doing it wrong.

But anyway, on the topic of making your own religion, I'd like to voice my disagreement.

The way I see it, religion is the way you relate to the Divine, whatever it may be, and the whole issue of life after death. Unless you can claim THE TRUTH HAS BEEN REVEALED TO ME IN A DREAM or whatever, it's just plainly inappropriate to mix and match different dogmas and make your own. You can't build a God or a path to eternity through your own reasoning. Or maybe we can and don't know of it. But that's another story.

But of course, that isn't all there is to an organized religion; it also includes philosophy and interpretation. Those you should be able to mix, match and twist until they make sense. And they're the most important part. Many big religious issues have a historical root, at least in Christianism, and they don't necessarily hold any more water these days.

This is true, I had an interesting debate with someone else about that as well.

That is an extremely interesting way to put it actually. Since then I have to ask the question, if you cannot build a God, where did the Christian God, etc. come from? (I don't mean this in a mocking way or anything. Just curious.)

Interpretation is an interesting thing really. Since, I know some Christians practice at home, but those that go to church, isn't the priest also offering his interpretation as well. What if you don't agree with the priest...where does that leave you?

[TheEnd]

This is true, I had an interesting debate with someone else about that as well.

That is an extremely interesting way to put it actually. Since then I have to ask the question, if you cannot build a God, where did the Christian God, etc. come from? (I don't mean this in a mocking way or anything. Just curious.)

Supposedly, God revealed Himself to some people a few millennia ago or something. There's an entire Christian mythology, you know.

Interpretation is an interesting thing really. Since, I know some Christians practice at home, but those that go to church, isn't the priest also offering his interpretation as well. What if you don't agree with the priest...where does that leave you?

You're free to disagree with the priest. He's a human, he can commit mistakes. Hell, even the Pope is known to be prone to committing mistakes (though there's all that belief that he's infallible when making decrees or something like that). However, you should remember that the priest usually studied a lot more about what he's talking, so his insight about matters of faith is probably more informed.

A Mass (or whatever) isn't supposed to be a brainwashing session.

[Hatari]

Supposedly, God revealed Himself to some people a few millennia ago or something. There's an entire Christian mythology, you know.

You're free to disagree with the priest. He's a human, he can commit mistakes. Hell, even the Pope is known to be prone to committing mistakes (though there's all that belief that he's infallible when making decrees or something like that). However, you should remember that the priest usually studied a lot more about what he's talking, so his insight about matters of faith is probably more informed.

A Mass (or whatever) isn't supposed to be a brainwashing session.

Yep, though it's one mythology I've always refused to look into deeply. Perhaps now I don't have a choice anymore...

Just because a person studies something doesn't necessary suggest they are the authority on it, but could indeed have some more insight.

Funny that you say that, since there are times when I viewed them exactly as that.

I'll need to look into everything more. Being informed...has advantages.

[Zanarkin]

Supposedly, God revealed Himself to some people a few millennia ago or something. There's an entire Christian mythology, you know.

He revealed Himself to Abraham, because eventhough at the time people were polytheistic (sp?) Abraham believed that there was one God who was all powerful or something like that. God then made a pact with Abraham that He would take care of the hebrews forever as long as they agreed to worship Him forever. If i recall correctly from religion class, that how jewism(sp?) was created.