Who's the green knight?

[Rewjeo]

From what I've heard, Luke is generally considered the green knight. However, it seems to me that Rody is actually the green knight, while Luke is the third cavalier.

First, look at the red/green knight appearances throughout the games:

Abel has green hair and armor.

Cain has red hair and armor.

Alec has green hair and armor.

Noish has blond hair and red armor.

FE5's pair is a little hard to tell for color, but

Kein has blond/brown hair and a green collar.

Alva has blue hair and a red cloak.

Lance has green hair and armor.

Alan has red hair and armor.

Sain has brown hair and green armor.

Kent has orange hair and red armor.

Kyle has green hair and armor.

Forde has blond hair and red armor.

Oscar has green hair and armor.

Kieran has red hair and armor.

And then we look at Luke, Cecil, and Rody. Luke has green hair and blue armor, Cecil has red/pink hair and red armor, and Rody has brown hair and green armor. Cecil's pretty obviously the red knight since she's the only one with any red at all. Luke vs. Rody? Well, five of the seven green knights have green hair, and four of the seven red knights have red (or close) hair. So 9/14 of them have hair that matches their archetype. However, every single one has armor (or clothing, in the case of FE5's) that matches. Luke's hair matches. Rody's armor matches. Seems like Rody fits better.

And then there's weapon level. We'll start with FE5 because before then weapon levels were either class based (FE4) or all held in one stat (FE1,3) while FE5 starts with it being character based.

Kein has a higher weapon level in lances.

Alva has a higher weapon level in swords.

Lance has a higher weapon level in lances.

Alan has a higher weapon level in lances.

Sain has a higher weapon level in lances.

Kent has a higher weapon level in swords.

Kyle has a higher weapon level in lances

Forde has a higher weapon level in lances

Oscar uses lances.

Kieran uses axes.

Abel has a higher weapon level in lances.

Cain has a higher weapon level in swords.

So, of the six sets of red/green knights here, four specialize in different weapons. In the two cases where that isn't true, their starting equipment seems to imply that they specialize in different weapon types. And in both of them, they both use lances over swords. And, in every single case, the green knight has used lances.

Cecil and Luke specialize in swords, Rody in lances. Not only does one using swords and one using lances support Rody being the green knight, but the fact that he uses lances implies that he's the green knight.

Even if you were to say that some of this evidence is invalid because Kaga may have intended Luke to be the green knight and everything past FE5 had nothing to do with him, there's still the visual evidence from 1-5, where, of the four sets of knights, Luke would the the only one with armor not corresponding to the archetype while Rody would be one of four knights where the hair didn't fit but the armor did.

(Note: I put this here because the weapon levels and seeing so much of the armor in FE12 made me think of this. I wasn't sure if it should go here or in general FE, however, because it talks about units from every game but Gaiden and focuses on units in 3 and 12. Move if this is the wrong section.)

Edit: tl;dr version: Rody's green armor fits the green archetype better than Lukes green hair, as does Rody's weapon level in FE12.

Edited August 12, 2010 by Slize

[dondon151]

You completely ignored Cecile, though. Should I remind you that of the 6 pairs that you listed, 5 join at the same time? Furthermore, why do the characters need to be segregated strictly by color?

[Rewjeo]

You completely ignored Cecile, though. Should I remind you that of the 6 pairs that you listed, 5 join at the same time? Furthermore, why do the characters need to be segregated strictly by color?

Are you calling me racist?

The archetypes have traditionally been red and green knight. And Cecil's pretty clearly red. Besides that, Abel and Cain actually join at separate times more often than not. FE3 book 2, FE11, and FE12.

And, all three joined together at the same time in FE3, and here, the prologue's not necessarily part of the main story, which they all join at the same time.

Looked at their pasts, and, well, it gets confusing. According to FE3's page, all three are simply knights of Altea, and Luke was a gambler earlier, but in FE12, Luke wasn't, and Cecil was actually part of a different platoon.

Edit: Maybe IS is trying to change up the archetype? It's really messed up in Tellius, and in these two most recent games, the green knight has joined with a blue armored knight shortly before the red knight. FE7 and 8 also had a third cavalier.

Edit2: I'm not splitting it strictly by color. I'm also using weapon levels, which, at the very least, shows that Rody is not the third wheel here.

Edited August 12, 2010 by Slize

[dondon151]

Maybe I should better rephrase myself. Why do you say that Cecile is "red knight" when it could be Luke?

[Ryan7556]

From what it seems personality wise:

The Cain (red knight) archetype is the more aggressive and reckless guy - according to the site description Luke could qualify for that, but Cecil could too because it mentions that she gets into fights easily and hates to lose.

The Abel (green knight) archetype is the more calm and reserved guy - according to the site description Rody qualifies for this.

Typically these two archetypes appear together at the beginning of the game, but there are some exceptions like FE9 where Oscar (Green) appeared at least a couple chapters separate from Kieran (Red). In FE7 these two were switched around where Sain was the reckless one but wore green armour, and Kent was the more calm one but wore red armour. Same thing in FE4 with Alec and Noish.

Edited August 12, 2010 by Axefighter Barst

[MasterJP28]

Are you calling me racist?

The archetypes have traditionally been red and green knight. And Cecil's pretty clearly red. Besides that, Abel and Cain actually join at separate times more often than not. FE3 book 2, FE11, and FE12.

And, all three joined together at the same time in FE3, and here, the prologue's not necessarily part of the main story, which they all join at the same time.

Looked at their pasts, and, well, it gets confusing. According to FE3's page, all three are simply knights of Altea, and Luke was a gambler earlier, but in FE12, Luke wasn't, and Cecil was actually part of a different platoon.

Edit: Maybe IS is trying to change up the archetype? It's really messed up in Tellius, and in these two most recent games, the green knight has joined with a blue armored knight shortly before the red knight. FE7 and 8 also had a third cavalier.

Edit2: I'm not splitting it strictly by color. I'm also using weapon levels, which, at the very least, shows that Rody is not the third wheel here.

Well don't forget that FE7 flipped the Red/Green knights from how they were originally, red=straingth green=speed. The third knight for FE7-8 had inferior bases but better growths, fe7 Lowen and fe8 Franz. Rody fits the third knight perfectly, lower bases but higher growths whereas Frey was just an unpromoted Oifey archtype that was given to players who played prologue in SD.

[Rewjeo]

Lowen does not have clearly better growths than Kent/Sain, they just apply to a different area. Frey was also not an Oifey. He's unpromoted, has poor weapon levels, and is not clearly superior to any of your other units at that point, let alone all of them.

The archetype has been divided by color more than join time. Ignoring Luke, Rody, and Cecil, the duo has only joined at the same time seven times while it's joined at different times five times. That's not exactly consistent. Compared to personality, color, and weapon levels, which are all more consistent, Cecil seems to be the red knight. That's not to say it couldn't be Luke, though.

Now, FE12 seems to imply that LukexRody is the duo, however, since IS decided that Cecil is now from a different platoon. FE3 does not have that, and they all join at the same time, however. The question of what's canon also plays into this some.

[Parrhesia]

Cecil being from a different platoon is far less segregated than Oscar the mercenary and Kieran the imprisoned army dude. 'Sides, if colour is all that matters, wouldn't it still be Cain and Abel?

[Rewjeo]

Oscar and Kieran WERE both in the army at one point, though, right?

Well, since this is all character, not unit, I'd say that Cecil/Rody would be the new Red/Green knights, and Cain and Abel would be another returning set.

[El Rey León]

Oscar and Kieran WERE both in the army at one point, though, right?

This is correct. Their support conversation in PoR is all about it.

[Randoman]

I'd say Rody is the green cavalier because of his higher lance rank, calm personality, and green armor (in most cases it's the armor that denotes the cavalier's colour, not the hair).

As for which one is the cavalier pair, I'd say it's Luke and Rody because they join on the same chapter, they have the same level, and they both have official artwork while Cecil is the odd one out in all of those cases.

[Rewjeo]

So, while Rody/Cecil is the Green/Red knight pair, the cav duo is Rody/Luke? That's what seems most likely to me.

[Anouleth]

Plus, Cecile is girl! Out of the 14 Red/Green cavaliers (15 if you count FE10 Geoffrey), 0 of them have been girl!

[Randoman]

Well, I actually think that Luke and Rody is the red/green calavier pair, even though Luke isn't red. I know, it seems really weird that the starting cavalier red/green pair isn't red and green (or at least red in Luke's case), but in FE3 Book 2 Cecil was actually purple, so that probably means she was never meant to be the red cavalier. Seeing how Luke is more similar to Rody than Cecil is, the Luke and Rody pair seem more likely and fitting than the Cecil and Rody pair.

[Rewjeo]

Actually, when FE3 came out, there had only been one red/green pair, so you could actually say that this game just lacks the pair since, in the original, there was no red knight from the beginning. Alternatively, Abel/Cain could still be the pair.

[nave1194]

honestly i agree that luke/rody are the red and green knight it just seems right to me and i think cecil is much more like the lowen or franz type cavalier as for cain and abel, it's obvious that they, just like all the other returning characters are just that, returning characters

[Rewjeo]

I dunno. When the original came out, there wasn't an archetype yet. Gaiden didn't have a pair, and trying to figure out the pair here is... confusing. Alternatively, IS might be trying to get a red/green/blue trio going. FE9 had that, FE10 had that, FE11 had that, and now FE12 does, too. Not too likely, but possible. Maybe we'll see with the next FE game. I think for now, though, I'm content saying that there isn't really a pair here.

Actually, looking closely at it, it's not a particularly strong archetype.

[Parrhesia]

I dunno. When the original came out, there wasn't an archetype yet. Gaiden didn't have a pair, and trying to figure out the pair here is... confusing. Alternatively, IS might be trying to get a red/green/blue trio going. FE9 had that, FE10 had that, FE11 had that, and now FE12 does, too. Not too likely, but possible. Maybe we'll see with the next FE game. I think for now, though, I'm content saying that there isn't really a pair here.

Actually, looking closely at it, it's not a particularly strong archetype.

Well, not really blue, given your pick of three in FE9 and ... more in FE10 (none of which are blue except FE10 Geoffrey, but no) and Frey was silver more than blue. In fact, only Treck, Noah and Luke have really been blue cavaliers.

[nave1194]

yeah i geuss that is true and there might not really be an archetype thats strong but there is always those two cavaliers that are given to us and to me that is luke and rody

[El Rey León]

Or maybe there isn't a red/green cav this time around. They're just...cavs.

[Rewjeo]

yeah i geuss that is true and there might not really be an archetype thats strong but there is always those two cavaliers that are given to us and to me that is luke and rody

I might point out (again) that, at the time of the original, there had only been one red/green pair, meaning that there was no archetype yet. It's like looking for more chickens while the very first one ever is still a chick. Maybe even still an egg. (Anyone says anything about the chicken vs egg thing... btw the egg came first, assuming you believe evolution, and the chicken came first assuming you believe creationism)

[AVahne]

Can't we just call the "third cavalier" the Blue Knight already?

Luke is Blue

Frey is Blue

Lex is Blue

Heck, even though Geoffrey had green armor in PoR and came as just another Paladin, he wears Blue in RD and he's got the Blue hair to match.

Franz is the only "third cavalier" that I can think of who isn't blue.

Edited August 25, 2010 by SilvueWolf

[Venusaur]

Franz is the only "third cavalier" that I can think of who isn't blue.

Lowen? Makalov?

[El Rey León]

Lex is Blue

Lex isn't a cav, he's an Axe Knight who promotes into a Great Knight.

This is an important distinction so don't ruin it for me. :P

[General Spoon]

You guys are all wrong. They're social knights, not cavs.