Apparently, Brothers are no good

[LycopolisKing]

About the 4 Bishops, just wondering... Why can't Marth, Michalis, or Matthis wake their sister?

Marth - He only bit his nails for years worrying about Elice, did everything he could to make Starlight and rescue her, and he would've used it himself if he had a magic growth ('cause that cap is fantastic) and use magic, then had an insta support with her. She's always sacrificing for him and he's always worrying about her, why can't he wake her? They had years and years together and have a positive relationship.

Michalis - Maria loves this guy to the point of willingly agreeing to go to Dolhr to please him (ok, she didn't know she'd be imprisoned), and then she stays by his bedside nursing him back to health until he recovers. Then he pledges his life to trying to find her and does all he can to rescue her, and he can't wake her? They have an auto A support, Maria's forgiven him more than he deserves, so...what up wit dat?

Matthis - Ok, they can support in Shadow Dragon, and... he cares. I think. Good enough.

If Marth could do it, it would reduce the unit count that's already pushed to the limit, and if they brothers could do it in general the game would have more options. More choices are always better.

The brothers at least talk to their sisters after their recruited, right? (Or at least Michalis, hopefully.)

I'm really looking forward to using the princesses (not Rena), especially Nyna due to it being her first time. Her bases are actually decent for a preAdvanced unit, but her level's her downfall - but she's got good growths as well and her luck alone explains how she survived Chapter 20 of Shadow Dragon without being eradicated by the bastillians.

That Bishop headress is really annoying, though.

[AstraLunaSol]

I would think that it'd have to be love that would awaken them.

Elice loves Merric over Marth, I would think.

RenaXJulian OTP Matthis is....Not exactly suited. >_>

SiriusXNyna because of

Camus

Now here the tricky one, Minerva and Maria, Considering that in the original, Michalis couldn't be recruited, and Minerva held that job of recruiting Maria, what if they switched it? and you missed the way that Michalis could be recruited? Well, then you'd have to kill Maria.

Though, I don't really know about the Maria-Minerva since Maria has no love interest. Other than lolMarth

Edited August 21, 2010 by Michalis

[Acacia Sgt]

Hm, I theorize that, it's for those particular reasons that they can't. Perhaps their puppet-like states were made to be immune to their voices and words, but without realizing that there were others who also could. Not completely sure of this, though, as it has it's flaws (like how Minerva could still wake Maria)...

[TheEnd]

Now here the tricky one, Minerva and Maria, Considering that in the original, Michalis couldn't be recruited, and Minerva held that job of recruiting Maria, what if they switched it? and you missed the way that Michalis could be recruited? Well, then you'd have to kill Maria.

They could've made it "talk with Minerva OR Michalis." Simple like that.

Maybe Michalis doesn't cry enough.

[LycopolisKing]

They could've made it "talk with Minerva OR Michalis." Simple like that.

Maybe Michalis doesn't cry enough.

I know, that's what I'm saying! :o Options.

[Kiddo]

Basically, IntSys not quite putting in the effort to change the details/method to rescuing the girls. It really would've been nice if they could've been woken by any one of their A-level supports, each with different convos for them. After all, Minerva's convo doesn't have the "sting" to it if Michalis is alive (and by all logic would be the one breaking her spell if he was alive), Merric and Ellice's convo is sappy and highly implausible in the context ("lulz we <3 each other so much BUT IT'S SO EMBARASSING even though we kinda have to make it obvious to kill Medeus lol"), and...

well, the others basically still work, but it'd be neat if there were alternative options.

Besides the whole sibling thing Marth has with Ellice, there's also the twist that Nyna actually had feelings for Marth but gave them up so he could pursue Caeda unfettered, and Maria gushing over Marth.... yeah, it'd be kinda strange if Marth himself could save 3 of the four girls himself, but I kinda like having branching options. Nyna also seemed pretty close to Midea in the BSFE maps, and it'd be interesting to see Rena rescued by Matthis, Navarre (since he seems to have some shiptease with her in older adaptations of the plot), or Julian (because after all the stuff they went through in BSFE, the sheer irony of him taking the place of his HoYay partner to rescue said guy's love interest would be poetic. Or Hilarious.)

Alas, if only Hardin could be rescued. It'd have been interesting to see if he could rescue Nyna from there himself...

[TheEnd]

Alas, if only Hardin could be rescued. It'd have been interesting to see if he could rescue Nyna from there himself...

It would make perfect sense if he couldn't, actually. He fell under the dark orb's influence precisely because he noticed there wasn't a place for him in Nyna's heart.

About Marth/Elice and Matthis/Rena:

Elice doesn't think very highly of Marth. To her, he's an idealist who can't do anything without the help of others (this sounded more harsh than it actually is, but well) - somebody to be protected, not somebody she can rely on.

Matthis is... lol Matthis. I don't think any more exposition is really needed, to be honest.

[Jedor]

Elice doesn't think very highly of Marth. To her, he's an idealist who can't do anything without the help of others (this sounded more harsh than it actually is, but well) - somebody to be protected, not somebody she can rely on.

Where was this said?

[TheEnd]

Where was this said?

Prologue, when My Unit first meets her.

[IGdood]

What a sister.

[Momo]

Prologue, when My Unit first meets her.

Did she really say it that harshly? What a bitch.

[TheEnd]

Did she really say it that harshly? What a bitch.

(this sounded more harsh than it actually is, but well)

End of prologue 4 (rather literal translation):

[...]

Elice: Hero King... huh. It seems he's called that way by the people. However, the true Marth is a very fragile, easily hurt child.

MU: Lord Marth, weak...?

Elice: Yes. Indeed, that child faced Medeus in the last battle and won. That child has grand ideals, and a strong will to hold those ideals. However, as you know, you can't save anyone in the real world with just ideals.

MU: Yes...

Elice: As we speak, people may be losing their lives right now in places we could seldom imagine... Marth cannot save them.

MU: But... no matter how great a king might be, he is no god. He isn't almighty. As a human, there's a limit to what he can do.

Elice: Indeed, that's how it is. Usually, people take note of reality and make compromises between that reality and their ideals. However, that child cannot do this... he wants to save everyone, from the bottom of his heart. In the war, if even one of his companions fall... that's very hard for him to stand. He controls it with his powerful will, but his heart is hurt and bleeds as result.

MU: ...

Elice: It's very difficult for that child to keep holding those ideals in this harsh world... MU, if you're to become a knight... please, protect that child. Protect his ideals...

Please don't interpret that "that child" as sarcasm or anything like that, but rather as how a mother would refer to her own child. That's the vibe I get from what Elice says.

[Trueblade]

Hmm... I actually use the however many of them there are brothers. Do they get supports?

[LycopolisKing]

End of prologue 4 (rather literal translation):

[...]

Elice: Hero King... huh. It seems he's called that way by the people. However, the true Marth is a very fragile, easily hurt child.

MU: Lord Marth, weak...?

Elice: Yes. Indeed, that child faced Medeus in the last battle and won. That child has grand ideals, and a strong will to hold those ideals. However, as you know, you can't save anyone in the real world with just ideals.

MU: Yes...

Elice: As we speak, people may be losing their lives right now in places we could seldom imagine... Marth cannot save them.

MU: But... no matter how great a king might be, he is no god. He isn't almighty. As a human, there's a limit to what he can do.

Elice: Indeed, that's how it is. Usually, people take note of reality and make compromises between that reality and their ideals. However, that child cannot do this... he wants to save everyone, from the bottom of his heart. In the war, if even one of his companions fall... that's very hard for him to stand. He controls it with his powerful will, but his heart is hurt and bleeds as result.

MU: ...

Elice: It's very difficult for that child to keep holding those ideals in this harsh world... MU, if you're to become a knight... please, protect that child. Protect his ideals...

Please don't interpret that "that child" as sarcasm or anything like that, but rather as how a mother would refer to her own child. That's the vibe I get from what Elice says.

OUCH. Wow, well that explained everything. Marth feels completely for her but she's just humoring him. I think my respect for Elice just dropped through the floor...

Hmm... I actually use the however many of them there are brothers. Do they get supports?

For the brothers and sisters its -

Maria: Insta A with Michalis (mutual)

Elice: Insta C with Marth (mutual)

Lena: Insta C with Matthis (mutual)

Now it's looking like the only real brother that should be able to wake their sister is Michalis.

Edited August 26, 2010 by Maria's bro

[Acacia Sgt]

Hm, looking at what she said and those support levels... well, there goes my theory...

Oh well... though it now makes it more 'What?' to me that Michalis can't...

[Emperor Hardin]

Hm, looking at what she said and those support levels... well, there goes my theory...

Oh well... though it now makes it more 'What?' to me that Michalis can't...

Minerva still hesitates when she tells her sister Michalis is alive, in the original this was because Michalis was dead and she was lying about his fate. I'm guessing they didn't bother to update the dialogue in the remake is because Michalis surviving was more of an easter egg.

Edited August 26, 2010 by Emperor Hardin

[LycopolisKing]

Minerva still hesitates when she tells her sister Michalis is alive, in the original this was because Michalis was dead and she was lying about his fate. I'm guessing they didn't bother to update the dialogue in the remake is because Michalis surviving was more of an easter egg.

What? They didn't change it at all? Why?

I mean, if Maria and Michalis have an insta A, I can't believe they're gonna just sit next to each other and not say anything, after each pledged devotion to the other (in separate orders). It's bad enough Michalis can't wake her - now the dialogue doesn't make sense!

Augh, I thought they were gonna improve in the char stuff after the diaster that was Shadow Dragon.

[Emperor Hardin]

What? They didn't change it at all? Why?

I mean, if Maria and Michalis have an insta A, I can't believe they're gonna just sit next to each other and not say anything, after each pledged devotion to the other (in separate orders). It's bad enough Michalis can't wake her - now the dialogue doesn't make sense!

Augh, I thought they were gonna improve in the char stuff after the diaster that was Shadow Dragon.

You could try not recruiting Michalis, then everything makes more sense.

[LycopolisKing]

...Can't get over what Elice said - no wonder she's optional - they're giving Marth and MU and oppurtunity for revenge.

You could try not recruiting Michalis, then everything makes more sense.

True, but not the point. You'd think they'd put in alternate stuff or something...

[Merric]

yeah it does sound like they have been parhaps a little lazy by not altering the ending for the characters or some of the conversation based on what has previously occured in your individual playthrough. Perhaps the translation will correct some of that but i very very much doubt it.

[Mordecai's Teeth]

So... i guess Elice earned herself a B*tch point for what she said about marth?

[Kiddo]

In all due fairness, what Ellice said tends to mirror the typical American fan-perception of "Girly Naive Moronic Tiara-wearing Marth". So... maybe she hung around the Seisen or Radiance fans a bit much or something, I dunno.

[LycopolisKing]

In all honesty, I have no problem with what Elice said. My problem is who she said it to.

If she feels that Marth has that many flaws, tell it to his face. They're related, and Marth feels much differently towards Elice than she does to him. If she really feels that way, then she should tell Marth to begin the transition to a wiser king. Don't backstab him to some stupid new recruit, not when Marth wouldn't even tolerate something bad said about Elice. Now MU'll be consending to Marth. It's awful, Marth doesn't deserve that.

And about Marth's personality, I don't know if he is naive. I've only played SSBM, SSBB, and SD with him in it, and his personality is extremely hard to read from only those. What I've gained from it is that he's fairly conceited and confident in his own abilities (his taunts, and ''Watch!" from SD). But naive? I'm not sure. He was in the prologue of Shadow Dragon, but since then he seemed to grow out of it. Wanting his soldiers to survive does not make him a bad king, quite the contrary in my opinion. He's one of my all time favorite characters, and my favorite Lord character hands down (though they've gotta let him have higher speed).

About the B-point, yeah, I think she earned it fairly with that low blow. She's still one of my favorite characters for her elegance, telling Malledus off, awesomeness and hotness, but, yeah, she needs to stop berating her brother to complete strangers. If she does that more often than we know, than yeah, she'll have completely earned her title.

But we've all known Elice was like that when she laughed at Merric in SD. She was rather condensending to him as well, so in truth I do not think she thinks all that differently of Merric, her rescuer. My theory is that because Marth is in her family and thus destined to become King she holds him to a much higher standard than she does Merric, and since Merric does not have any real obligations she finds what he's trying to do cute, so she probably thinks he's sweet or one of those other rather non-commital terms. My theory for why Marth can't wake her is that upon seeing Marth coming to rescue her, she does not feel anything - she'd only think of how he'd failed again, is a weak king for allowing this to happen to her - despite the fact that she sacrificed herself, she subconsiously blames Marth's weakness, so she does not think of the grief Marth must have fealt and the fact that he's done all he can to correct the situation and has come to rescue her. When she sees Merric, however, she is surprised, and her nonexistent crush blossoms on the spot, as she thinks of what Merric had to go through, and she realizes that she's the reason. So basically, she realizes the depth of his love for her and is surprised but deeply pleased, so she decides to give him a chance. So I honesly don't think she really loves Merric on the spot, but first simply loves the fact that he's saving her life - she loves his actions, but not him, at least at first. That's my theory.

Eventually it works out though, according to the FE3 endings. Man, I hate Merric for that. Lucky chump.

I'm now thinking Elice's affinity is Ice.

[Kiddo]

For reference, the Smash Bros. games tend to portray Marth with a personality conflicting with that from earlier promotional materials (The anime OVAs, and I believe the radio dramas), which portray Marth as much more timid, pacifistic, and not much of a fighter on his own at all. It's commonly guessed that Marth's rather "manly heroic" bits of dialog were holdovers from Sakurai's original plans to have Sigurd instead of Marth and Roy, although this just makes Seisen's complete lack of representation in Brawl all the more perplexing.

Of course, the anime OVA also made Caeda into a Mid-90's style "violence as comedy" anime Tsundere, which conflicts quite a lot with her current portrayal (I doubt the anime OVA Caeda would've done what she did to recruit Roger.)

[LycopolisKing]

Does anyone know why Lena is kidnapped? If Gharnef is kidnapping for resurrection powers, wouldn't that be the ability to use the Aum staff - a.k.a. Princess? So why the heck is Lena there - or is it a different reason?