Muslim extremists burn poppies on Armistice Day.

[Raven]

Source: http://www.dailymail...rning-hate.html

[spoiler=Article]

The boy brimming with pride, the fanatics burning with hate... two faces of Armistice Day

By Paul Harris

Last updated at 10:07 AM on 12th November 2010

He was 3ft tall in his shiny black shoes and he wore his great-uncle's medals with pride as he stood to attention in the rain.

Jonny Osborne, seven, symbolised the face of a new generation yesterday as he marched shoulder to shoulder with servicemen and women to honour those killed by war.

But three miles across London from the Armistice Day ceremony at the Cenotaph, another face of Britain was on display. It was contorted with hatred, poisoned by politics, and fuelled by flames from a giant, burning poppy.

Dignity and deference, violence and venom: Jonny Osborne gives a salute at the Cenotaph yesterday while, three miles away, members of Muslims Against Crusaders burnt a giant poppy

These were the Muslim extremists who brought shame to the memory of the dead yesterday by breaking the traditional two-minute silence with chants of 'British soldiers burn in hell'.

Ironically, it was the freedom for which thousands fought that allowed them to stage their demonstration at the stroke of 11am – the exact moment the nation came to a halt at the Cenotaph, across the country, and after parallel services at British bases in Afghanistan.

The protesters were even given a police escort to their protest venue near the Victoria and Albert Museum in Kensington, thankfully the closest they were allowed to the focal point of Britain's remembrance tribute yesterday.

War, inevitably, linked the two events, yet they could hardly have been more different. At one, violence and venom. At the other, dignity and deference.

Looking up: Seven-year-old Jonny Osborne, wearing his great great uncle's medals, comes face-to-face with a soldier at the ceremony

Shameful: Muslim protesters break the Armistice Day silence in central London

At the Cenotaph, Jonny shared the crowd's applause as he walked behind a cluster of Victoria Cross and George Cross holders. Among them were veterans of the Second World War, Iraq and Afghanistan.

Absent on parade, but still fondly remembered, were the likes of Harry Patch, the last Tommy from the trenches of the First World War. A stalwart of these occasions, he died last year aged 111.

Which was why young Jonny and other youngsters had an important role to play yesterday, an occasion born of the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month, when the guns finally fell silent in the 1914-1918 fighting.

As the number of survivors and their widows dwindles with time, new generations have become word-of-mouth messengers for those who gave their lives.

Jonny told me: 'All I know really is that people should not forget. I tell everybody about the war – as many people as I can. It's my favourite thing.'

Lack of respect: Police escort Muslim protesters towards South Kensington Tube station after they began a protest in west London

His great-uncle, Sapper Lawrence Burton, was killed in fierce fighting on the beaches of Greece in 1941 while serving with the Royal Engineers.

Jonny wore three of his medals yesterday as a guest of the Association of Veterans of Foreign wars, of which his U.S.-resident grandfather Terry Burton is president.

His other great-uncle, Len Burton, was shot by a German sniper in Italy in 1945.

So yesterday the great-nephew they never met added a few medals of his own to his blazer, among them a Spitfire emblem alongside Union Flag and Stars and Stripes badges.

Jonny, who attends a Church of England primary school near his home in North London, added: 'I said a prayer for them. I like praying to God. I think people should. There were lots and lots of people praying for these guys.'

The ceremony honoured the dead from all wars and remembered the loved ones they left behind.

David Cameron (4th left) at the Korean National War Memorial in Seoul along with French Finance Minister Christine Lagarde (left), Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper (2nd left) and Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard (3rd left)

Mark of respect: Lloyds insurance employees observe the silence at a ceremony at the HQ in London

Even in the blustery and occasionally heavy rain, increasingly frail legs managed to keep certain sections of the crowd standing ramrod straight.

When it rained like this in the trenches, everything turned to mud. Yesterday it conveniently

disguised the tears that were shed for fallen friends.

Nearby at separate commemorations, poppy petals filled Trafalgar Square fountain and the Duke of Edinburgh visited the Field of Remembrance and the Grave of the Unknown Warrior at Westminster Abbey.

The two-minute silence was observed so strictly that the stillness it brought to this part of

London was startling.

Helping the injured: Julie Dove from the Poppy Appeal attends an Armistice Day service at Chester Cathedral with a member of the 1st Battalion the Mercians who lost his legs in combat

Concern: At Westminster Abbey, the Duke of Edinburgh shakes hands with Lauren Levy (right) whose ex-boyfriend Andrew Griffiths died in Afghanistan

In what is normally one of the busiest sections of the capital, I heard a dried-out leaf hit the ground after it fell from a plane tree in Whitehall.

Over at Kensington, however, the fanatics from Muslims Against Crusades, as they labelled themselves, were just kicking off.

No silence was observed here. Captured on film, they burned a large model poppy, and chanted slogans protesting at what was happening in Iraq and Afghanistan. Spokesman Asad Ullah said: 'We find it disgusting that innocent people, innocent children, have been killed in an illegal and unjust war and we are demonstrating against that.'

Jonny's grandfather shook his head when he heard what had happened.

'I'm stunned,' he said. 'Almost speechless.

'It's totally disrespectful to those who gave their lives. It's absolutely insulting.'

Back at the Cenotaph, Jonny went marching home.

With luck, the word-of-mouth message he spreads will endure longer than the one the extremists were screaming.

Tribute: Poppies are thrown into a fountain at Trafalgar Square, central London

Not forgotten: Lucy Aldridge with her sons George, seven (left) and Archie, five, at Bredenbury War Memorial, Herefordshire, look at the name of her son, Rifleman William Aldridge, who was killed, aged 18, in Afghanistan in 2009

Well, before I state my opinion, I know very well that all Muslims are not to be tarred with the same brush, and anything I say is directed towards the extremists who participated and the people who support them.

What can I say. I think these people are most arrogant and selfish. They move into the Country, maybe even born here, yet they do not show any form of respect for the people who are responsible for the Great Britain we are living in today, and yet they still continue to live here, seemingly oblivious to the fact that they are very lucky to be doing so. People have lost life and limb to keep this Country a free one, and these extremists do it in the most hateful way I could imagine; by burning the symbol of Armistice Day.

I see on Facebook many, many groups, such as: "Don't respect our soldiers? Get the fuck out of our Country" and "We give you homes...We give you jobs..We give you freedom and you burn our poppies? a symbol to remember the people who died for the country you live in right now :@". Some of the comments left on these pages may be aimed at the whole Muslim community, but it was in fact only 35 Muslims who burned the poppy and participated in the demonstration. If there were other supporters, they probably had the intelligence to not participate in such a stupid thing which would only force the less intelligent, racist, non-Muslim communities to hate on all Muslims even more than they may already.

I could say more I guess, but I want other people to have their word on this.

Edited November 12, 2010 by VanguardRaven

[lolDeath]

Like I said on MSN, they should man up, grab a gun, and join the war if they feel so strongly about it. That way nobody would ever have to deal with them.

Ever again.

[Meteor]

Like I said on MSN, they should man up, grab a gun, and join the war if they feel so strongly about it.

Join the war they were protesting against? That doesn't make any sense.

Obviously their timing was chosen for the publicity they knew it would bring. Making a big deal out of it is exactly what they want. Ignoring the disrespect, I think they do have a valid political point -- 'We find it disgusting that innocent people, innocent children, have been killed in an illegal and unjust war and we are demonstrating against that.' -- though I think they way they did it will not spark many intelligent reactions.

[eclipse]

*sees Daily Mail*

*stops taking it seriously*

[Life]

Join the war they were protesting against? That doesn't make any sense.

Death's referring to joining the other side of the war. You know, all the Muslim extremists over in Afghanistan that want to spread Islam with the sword and the AK-47.

Look, if they want to protest against Britain in Afghanistan, that's their right. But to go out and burn poppies on a day of remembrance that goes back much farther than any problems with extremist Jihadists? That's completely disrespectful. And horribly timed. Don't do it on Armistice Day, for god sakes. Armistice Day is directed mostly to WW1 and WW2. Not the current conflict in Afghanistan.

[Raven]

*sees Daily Mail*

*stops taking it seriously*

I could have chosen any source. I can give more if you want.

[Meteor]

Death's referring to joining the other side of the war.

That will escalate the war, not end it.

[Silvercrow]

Look, if they want to protest against Britain in Afghanistan, that's their right. But to go out and burn poppies on a day of remembrance that goes back much farther than any problems with extremist Jihadists? That's completely disrespectful. And horribly timed. Don't do it on Armistice Day, for god sakes. Armistice Day is directed mostly to WW1 and WW2. Not the current conflict in Afghanistan.

It's actually pretty interesting that they chose this. It was probably totally arbitrary anyway, but read up about the stuff in the Treaty of Versailles about the middle east.

I would say it's arguable that it's where a lot of this began.

[lolDeath]

That will escalate the war, not end it.

What, a dozen more dead people? That won't even make a difference, especially considering "lol oops we shot civilians" doesn't really do shit. People disagree, some people decide to fight about it, people die, it's nothing new and not ending. Worrying about a few people won't make any difference.

My point is I guess that I never said I expect that to end it and I don't expect it to end. I just wish people who run their mouths would get involved instead of just fucking crying about it.

Edited November 12, 2010 by Death

[TheReaper]

We were talking about this today in Philosophy at school. I am disgusted about what they did. It means so much to many the poppy symbol. My great uncle being one of those war veterans who saw his best friend shot next to him. If we did anything to them they would just go insane and start threatening us.

I personally think we British are too soft on people like this. They need to be stopped and this time they've taken it way too far and disrepected many of our heros.

[lolDeath]

And what would you do?

[TheReaper]

Have them arrested. It's just unacceptable to do that.

[Hero]

Armistice Day is directed mostly to WW1 and WW2. Not the current conflict in Afghanistan.

Oh, but it's all about Afghanistan. The UK's really taking the war in Afghanistan seriously still, and isn't holding anything back within the limits of the funding for their effort. Why should the other side, which is a thousand times more desperate, not do the same? November 11th is a nationalist holiday celebrating the "heroism" of UK soldiers. The only surprise is that there weren't a thousand times as many protesters, considering the number of poor religious Muslims in London, and that there weren't bombs exploding all over the island yesterday to match the ones being dropped on family houses and schools at the same time by unmanned drones in Afghanistan.

Have them arrested. It's just unacceptable to do that.

You're right. It's about time the UK stopped even pretending to be a democracy with guaranteed rights for its citizens. Authoritarianism is much more economical, especially in these times of austerity, so you guys might as well stop living a lie and totally embrace it.

This is ridiculous how you're getting worked up over something so insubstantial as a protest. The UK isn't in any immediate danger from terrorism, if you're not the top country in the world anymore it's still one of the richest and still enjoys some of the fruits of its four hundred years of colonialism. Your side barely suffers at all from this idiotic war halfway across the world, sure you have to pay for it but that's all going into a corrupt network which would have found a way to profit regardless. Not much is going to change for the worse in your lives from this distant war in Afghanistan, and even less from people protesting it. Don't you see it?

What, a dozen more dead people? That won't even make a difference, especially considering "lol oops we shot civilians" doesn't really do shit. People disagree, some people decide to fight about it, people die, it's nothing new and not ending. Worrying about a few people won't make any difference.

My point is I guess that I never said I expect that to end it and I don't expect it to end. I just wish people who run their mouths would get involved instead of just fucking crying about it.

If you place no or minimal value on human life, and if you aren't especially enthusiastic to beat the evil Jihadist enemy, why do you even care what other people do or say about the whole issue? By making negative comments about protests on the internet when you haven't put any physical or even moral investment behind them, you appear to be doing exactly the same thing you're condemning. I mean no disrespect here, but it confuses me.

---

The only bad thing I see about this protest is that they're wasting some poppies which would have made some really nice tea.

Edited November 12, 2010 by Héroe

[Raven]

I must also agree that we are too soft. Our laws on Human Rights, especially the parts to do with religion and beliefs, is the most fucked up thing ever. It basically lets those people do such hateful things and get away with it.

[Hero]

I must also agree that we are too soft. Our laws on Human Rights, especially the parts to do with religion and beliefs, is the most fucked up thing ever. It basically lets those people do such hateful things and get away with it.

It's always surprised me how many crypto-fascists there are on the internet.

[lolDeath]

If you place no or minimal value on human life, and if you aren't especially enthusiastic to beat the evil Jihadist enemy, why do you even care what other people do or say about the whole issue? By making negative comments about protests on the internet when you haven't put any physical or even moral investment behind them, you appear to be doing exactly the same thing you're condemning. I mean no disrespect here, but it confuses me.

I think you're just looking at what I said in the wrong light. Human life is, I don't know, "priceless" to me, I'm against the death penalty and doing cocaine while pregnant and beating things with clubs and all that. It's just that I do not expect the "evil Jihadist enemy" to go away, the thing I have no hope for is this situation resolving. Seems to me like many, many, many more people will die and since I expect such a heavy amount of future loss any current just fills in part of the blank that I am already reacting to. That I have already reacted to, rather.

Still though, I don't think your comparison is a particularly valid one. A forum post is like... a forum post. Know what I mean? Maybe if this community gave me a little hope for amusing conversation on any topic more meaningful than reproductive organs I'd be a bit more descriptive and put more effort into making sure it is clearly understood what I think and feel about a subject, but ever since I had to sit through RESIDENT EVIL IS SEXIST I'm just like "okay... whatever".

I feel like Eeyore.

[Byte2222]

In my opinion: Muslim extremists protesting about the war in Afghanistan is alright but protesting about the British military's actions on the day we're supposed to honour our fallen soldiers and burning the poppies that symbolise that remembrance is going quite a bit too far. But really this attention is what they want so we should try not to inflate this. Oh, and you may have wanted to pick a better newspaper to pull an article from.

[Hero]

Still though, I don't think your comparison is a particularly valid one. A forum post is like... a forum post. Know what I mean? Maybe if this community gave me a little hope for amusing conversation on any topic more meaningful than reproductive organs I'd be a bit more descriptive and put more effort into making sure it is clearly understood what I think and feel about a subject, but ever since I had to sit through RESIDENT EVIL IS SEXIST I'm just like "okay... whatever".

I feel like Eeyore.

Fair enough. Perception is reality, and since perceptions on a forum are so limited it's really easy to get the wrong idea about things.

I still disagree with you though. Every adjustment of the statistics is still important on its own, you know what I mean?

[lolDeath]

I guess I'm just more of a long term kind of guy.

[Anouleth]

I don't have a strong feeling either way. Although I think it's ridiculous to suggest that these people don't have the right to protest.

[Raven]

It's always surprised me how many crypto-fascists there are on the internet.

How am I fascist? I wouldn't call myself right-winged at all. I have nothing against ethnic minorities. But when it comes to religion and beliefs, the religious person should be treated the same as the atheist person would be. Kind of like how people are against terrorism.

An example: A police officer (here) is allowed to check a suspect's headgear for any dangerous or illegal items. However, when it comes to someone wearing a religious garment for headwear, say an Indian wearing a turban, it's a no-go. If you can justify this without involving religion, be my guest.

I fucking hate it.

[Anouleth]

How am I fascist? I wouldn't call myself right-winged at all. I have nothing against ethnic minorities. But when it comes to religion and beliefs, the religious person should be treated the same as the atheist person would be. Kind of like how people are against terrorism.

You were called fascist for suggesting that people don't have the right to protest peacefully.

[Raven]

You were called fascist for suggesting that people don't have the right to protest peacefully.

When the fuck did I suggest that?

[lolDeath]

And who the fuck is being discussed in this topic who is protesting peacefully? You don't need physical violence to disrupt peace.

[Kanami]

And who the fuck is being discussed in this topic who is protesting peacefully? You don't need physical violence to disrupt peace.

But how is chanting "British Soldiers Burn in Hell" on a day of remembrance, during a period where everyone is asked to be quiet disrupting the peace? XD

Anyway I really don't see "expression freedom" as a good excuse here. Using a much more common example, that's like arguing why a student couldn't jump up and down shouting "peanuts" during assembly (school). Or a office worker complaining "why the fuck do I have to listen to you" while sitting in a board meeting.