Hypothetical Improvements to Mages - Just for Fun (Thoughts)

[Thorhammer]

So, I was thinking, Micaiah is a bit lackluster in this game. True, she's good for Thanibombing and staffbotting, but what if she was a good combat unit in general. I was thinking of some changes to improve her, without making her overpowered. I also had some changes for the other mages in mind. Here's what I thought of:

Micaiah (gains 2 authority stars after 1-E):

Level: 1

HP: 55%/Base: 18

STR: 20%/Base: 3

MAG: 65%/Base: 10

SKL: 50%/Base: 4

SPD: 50%/Base: 10

LUCK: 65%/Base: 8

DEF: 30%/Base: 4

RES: 65%/ Base: 9

Starting skills: Shove, Sacrifice, Miracle (innate)

Starting items: Light, Divine, Herb

Light Mage - Light Sage promotion gains: HP+2/STR+2/MAG+2/SKL+3/SPD+3/DEF+2/RES+1/Staff C/Dark C/Light +1/Move +2 - promotes BEFORE 1-E

Light Sage caps: 40 HP/18 STR/28 MAG/25 SKL/27 SPD/40 LUCK/18 DEF/28 RES/S Light/A Staff/Dark B

Light Sage - Light Priestess gains: HP+3/STR+3/MAG+2/SKL+4/SPD+4/DEF+3/RES+2/Dark +1/Light +1/Staff +1 - promotes after 4-P

Light Priestess caps: 50 HP/21 STR/40 MAG/36 SKL/36 SPD/40 LUCK/22 DEF/40 RES/SS Light/SS Dark/SS Staff

*All non-S/SS/siege/proof tomes are forgeable.

Changes to Light Magic:

Light: E Rank /4 Mt /95 Hit /10 Crit /1 Wt /50 Uses

Ellight: D Rank /6 Mt /85 Hit /12 Crit /3 Wt /40 Uses

Divine: C Rank /7 Mt /90 Hit /20 Crit /6 Wt /35 Uses (new tome)

Purge: B Rank /9 Mt /80 Hit /15 Crit/18 Wt /10 Uses (Siege)

Shine: A Rank /11 Mt /90 Hit /25 Crit /8 Wt /30 Uses

Nosferatu: S Rank /10 Mt /90 Hit /5 Crit /10 Wt /25 Uses /Drains HP

Valaura: S Rank /13 Mt /90 Hit /15 Crit /9 Wt /25 Uses /Poisons on contact

Thani: Prf /12 Mt /100 Hit /15 Crit /5 Wt / 50 Uses/ MAG+3/Effective vs. armors and horses

Lumina: S Rank /1 Mt/ 75 Hit /10 Crit / 12 Wt/ 20 Uses /Ignores enemy RES (new tome) /Cannot double

Rexaura: SS Rank /18 Mt /110 Hit /20 Crit /12 Wt /50 Uses /DEF+3/RES+3

Changes to Dark Magic:

Worm: C Rank /10 Mt / 80 Hit /0 Crit /7 Wt /40 Uses /Poisons on contact

Carreau: B Rank /12 Mt/ 75 Hit/ 10 Crit/ 10 Wt/ 35 Uses

Fenrir: A Rank /12 Mt /70 Hit /0 Crit /20 Wt /10 Uses (Siege)

Verrine: S Rank /15 Mt /65 Hit /0 Crit /15 Wt /25 Uses

Balberith: SS Rank /19 Mt /90 Hit /5 Crit /18 Wt /50 Uses /Str+3/MAG+3

Abyss: S Rank / - Mt /60 Hit /0 Crit /20 Wt /20 Uses /Reduces target HP to 1 /Enemy-only /Cannot double (new tome)

Curse: S Rank / 10 Mt /80 Hit /5 Crit /9 Wt /25 Uses /RES+3 /SKL% chance to silence target /Effective vs. mages (all units with the hidden skill "Mage")

Death: S Rank / 8 Mt /55 Hit / 0 Crit /15 Wt /25 Uses /(SKL/3)% to instantly kill the target; does not work on bosses

Micaiah's bases are still nothing special - I don't think 10 AS actually doubles anything, but on the other hand, it also prevents her from getting doubled for a while, even on HM. Since light magic actually has might now, she's pretty good at softening up enemies for others to kill. 18 HP/4 DEF are terrible still, but now some enemies actually 3HKO her instead of everything 2HKOing. Thani is ridiculously powerful, giving her 25 ATK at base, targeting RES, which 2HKOs everything in Part 1 except for a few bosses and mages. She still really can't take much of a hit though, so she'll really be limited mostly to Thani-bombing knights and armors. Still, Thani's power can allow her to finish off weakened enemies easily. Miracle seems to fit in with the whole "Maiden" thing, so I thought it would be an appropriate skill. Not a good activation rate, but it could be nice. Starting with C light, she has Divine to work with to deal a more powerful hit, since she's probably not doubling at the start. It's more powerful, but she also runs the risk of getting getting doubled by a few select enemies (though very few.)

Her new caps do look really nice, especially SPD, but it's still rather sketchy whether she'll ever them. Her promotions now come earlier, and she has fewer opportunities to level in between, so it's kind of unlikely that she'll hit 20 before promoting. Still, she can now staffbot during 1-E, which is helpful. She can start using forged dark tomes in Part 3, which helps keep her offense up without using Thani.

[Junkhead]

I love Micaiah more now. If that was even possible.

[Soren37]

She now caps pretty much everything. In second tier, she'll cap HP, MAG, SKL, SPD, DEF, and RES. I didn't even bother doing the third tier after I found that she'd cap HP.

[Anouleth]

So, I was thinking, Micaiah is a bit lackluster in this game. True, she's good for Thanibombing and staffbotting, but what if she was a good combat unit in general. I was thinking of some changes to improve her, without making her overpowered. I also had some changes for the other mages in mind. Here's what I thought of:

She is already a good character.

Her new caps do look really nice, especially SPD, but it's still rather sketchy whether she'll ever them. Her promotions now come earlier, and she has fewer opportunities to level in between, so it's kind of unlikely that she'll hit 20 before promoting. Still, she can now staffbot during 1-E, which is helpful. She can start using forged dark tomes in Part 3, which helps keep her offense up without using Thani.

Why? Laguz have terrible resistance, she doesn't need help to 2HKO.

[Dark Sage]

All I want is a playable Druid in the GM chapters and who's actually good.

Druids have among the better caps of the FE10 mages.

[I.M. Gei]

Soren would probably look a lot better with a Speed cap of say, 36 and a speed growth of 50%. Archsages are so slow in RD it's sad...

Edited December 19, 2010 by Pet Pikachu

[dondon151]

They also would really like +3 MT on every weapon.

[Anouleth]

They also would really like +3 MT on every weapon.

You almost make it sound like +3 attack on every weapon isn't something everyone would want.

[I.M. Gei]

You almost make it sound like +3 attack on every weapon isn't something everyone would want.

Mages especially, because they get the weakest weapons. If the SS tomes were more on par with, say, FE8 Excalibur or Akaneia's Aura they'd be much better.

[riariadne]

Knives say hello too. That might is laughable.

[Psych]

Yeah, but thieves aren't specifically made for combat.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Psych

[Dark Sage]

Don't you mean "Like thieves are specifically made for combat?"

But agreed. Eh, it's not so much knives that need a buff as Sothe is decent with knives. Just increase Heather's growths.

I really wish Dark tomes were forgeable. You could make Pelleas a lot more useful. That and like I said, playable druid.

I always thought Soren should've been in a dark magic using class.

[Florete]

Lol 36 effective MT on Thani. With possible doubling.

[Tables]

I haven't done all the analysis on her, but my initial thoughts are, she'd become very good, probably high tier level at least. With great attack power, now actually decent SPD (assuming she's 20/1 going into 1-E, that's 22.5 SPD. Scrap 'decent'. That's insane going with 22 MAG as well). Sure, she'd still die fairly quickly, but she'd be ORKOing everything, give or take.

I think all mages would need (all of them, bar perhaps Tormod) to be competitive, is about +2 base SPD, +2-3 SPD caps in tiers 2-3, and maybe +2 mt to all weapons. Then they still have the fragile feel they should do, but some of them are actually doubling, and dealing more damage to boot. Check Soren with this: Now he has 20 base SPD, enough to not get doubled and close to Oscar and Titania's level (21), and while it grows slowly he caps his other stats quickly enough that he can take BEXP to hit that 25 around promotion. Sure, he's not amazing, but that's certainly enough to make him comparable to the other GMs when you add in his extra +2 mt as well.

[Anouleth]

I haven't done all the analysis on her, but my initial thoughts are, she'd become very good, probably high tier level at least. With great attack power, now actually decent SPD (assuming she's 20/1 going into 1-E, that's 22.5 SPD. Scrap 'decent'. That's insane going with 22 MAG as well). Sure, she'd still die fairly quickly, but she'd be ORKOing everything, give or take.

Actually, 30HP/12DEF means that her durability is not that bad. She's getting borderline 2/3HKOed by regular enemies, but mages (which are quite common in 1-E) tink her, so she's actually more durable than say... Edward or Leonardo.

I think all mages would need (all of them, bar perhaps Tormod) to be competitive, is about +2 base SPD, +2-3 SPD caps in tiers 2-3, and maybe +2 mt to all weapons. Then they still have the fragile feel they should do, but some of them are actually doubling, and dealing more damage to boot. Check Soren with this: Now he has 20 base SPD, enough to not get doubled and close to Oscar and Titania's level (21), and while it grows slowly he caps his other stats quickly enough that he can take BEXP to hit that 25 around promotion. Sure, he's not amazing, but that's certainly enough to make him comparable to the other GMs when you add in his extra +2 mt as well.

Problem is still that he needs a Crown on top of other stuff and has awful durability and movement. Soren would probably need 21 or 22 speed base with a 26 cap to be competitive, as well as reduced resistance on enemies so he can 2HKO. The way I see it, mages aren't supposed to be durable or have high movement, but they should at least have good offense.

[Tables]

Ah, the movement penalty . Give them +1 move as well. I'm not sure exactly what they need, maybe you're right (you probably are). I wonder how far +10% SPD growth, +3 SPD base, +1 MOV, +3 SPD cap, all Magic weapons +2 mt would take Mages in general? Hopefully far enough in the right direction.

[Narga_Rocks]

Soren has 33 atk at base level with a fire forge.

Even in 3-4 (as if Soren hasn't gained some mag through levels yet with his 80% growth or at least a C support) that same 33 atk is good enough to 2HKO everything on the map except the Generals. And he comes extremely close on them, too. 39 to 41 hp, 14 or 15 res. With 35 atk he gets most of them, so +1 mag on his bases and a C support. With +2 mag on his bases he has 36 atk and will 2HKO the toughest as well.

Assuming an A support later on and capped tier 2 mag (5 levels from his base) he has 39 atk. This ORKOs even the Generals in 3-11. 43 hp and 17 res.

Soren does not have problems 2HKOing in part 3 at all. In part 4 he does, depending on when he promoted and how much you spammed heal. You can give him an arms scroll to get him to SS Wind if he hasn't already and that generally helps him continue 2HKOing, but the thing has very limited uses. But as for part 3? Forge something.

His problems are doubling and durability and move and anything else I'm forgetting. 2HKOing isn't one of his problems outside 3-P/3-1 where he only has 29 atk with Elwind. He fails the 2HKO on halbs and generals and Sages and Bishops there (he actually continuously has problems 2HKOing Bishops, but Sages he has no trouble with once he's packing a fire forge).

Ilyana needs reduced res or epic promo bonuses or something. They should have had certain units auto-level like Ephraim/Eirika in fe8. Ilyana jumps to 20/3 or something, Tormod jumps to xx/20/1 for 4-4, Vika jumps to lv 25 and S strike. Stuff like that. But no.

Edited December 19, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[dondon151]

I was actually more frustrated that in 3-P and 3-1, Soren and Rhys had trouble combining for 2HKOs. Like, in a lot of cases, they weren't even close.

[Narga_Rocks]

I was actually more frustrated that in 3-P and 3-1, Soren and Rhys had trouble combining for 2HKOs. Like, in a lot of cases, they weren't even close.

That's pretty much the only place where boosting their mag or the mt of tomes will make a difference. I'd rather just give them arc tomes or something. Once you can start forging, if you made them better in 3-P/3-1 by boosting their mag or the mt of tomes things would perhaps get pretty funny very shortly for them. Like, dropping enemies to single digit hp after just one shot. Hey Mist, want a free kill?

But yeah, Soren has the same magic as Rhys at base and Elwind's 6 mt is 1 better than Rhys' Ellight. Since Soren can't 2HKO on his own, and Rhys is weaker, of course they'll fail to 2HKO together. They pretty much only nab Swordmasters and Warriors. And Warriors are pretty borderline for Soren. Rhys' 1 less atk might make them fail on some of those guys.

[Charpig]

Let mages be able to use Imbue. Also, make some brave tomes. With Thunder magic keep the hit, crit, and wt the same but improve the might so it is the strongest of the anima magics, like in PoR. If you're going to give me trouble hitting the enemy I at least want good damage when I hit. Finally, let Wind magic be effective against dracoknights and their promoted counterparts. I don't know why they gave dracoknights an exemption from that if falcoknights and birds are still weak against it. This wouldn't make the game any more difficult for Haar as he could still equip Nullify.

[Tables]

Haar has much more useful skills to be carrying than Nullify. You've basically just said 'Haar never uses skills, so it's fine'. Pass, Saviour, occasionally Pavise all make Haar the demon he is. But I agree that Wind should be effective against Dracoknights.