Random Numbers

[Paper Jam]

I've played and replayed a chapter often enough to know that whenever I first reach a chapter, the game generates an insanely long sequence of random numbers, and that this sequence doesn't change even if I restart the chapter.

I know about some of the actions that "use up" random numbers: I believe that two RNs are used up with each attack by either me or the enemy, and that... seven or eight RNs are used up whenever a character gains a level, to determine which stats gain a point and which don't. I'm pretty sure that some are used up whenever I visit the arena as well, whether I fight or not.

Are there any other actions that use up RNs? Does trading items or equipping weapons change the RN sequence?

Or if this information is already posted somewhere, might I be directed to it? I can't find it anywhere on this site or any other sites.

Edited April 17, 2011 by Paper Jam

[VincentASM]

This stuff can get complicated real fast, so it's not found on the site yet. There are a significant number of people who've done so fiddling around with the RNG and they can probably tell you a lot.

To start off with, attacks consume slightly more than 2 RNs.

2 RNs are used to determine Hit rate and another 2 for Critical and Assassination. The bit that I've forgotten is how the RNs for Critical and Assassination work. IIRC, the 2 RNs are only rolled if the character has a >1 Critical chance (although, in this case, the RN for Assassination is rolled even if the character isn't an Assassin).

Edited April 17, 2011 by VincentASM

[whase]

if you are looking for how to waste RNs, you can waste them by movement too.

here's a vid on how to use wasting RNs to get swiftsoles in FE8:

Edited April 17, 2011 by whase

[dondon151]

2 RNs are used to determine Hit rate and another 2 for Critical and Assassination. The bit that I've forgotten is how the RNs for Critical and Assassination work. IIRC, the 2 RNs are only rolled if the character has a >1 Critical chance (although, in this case, the RN for Assassination is rolled even if the character isn't an Assassin).

I seem to recall Assasination RN not being rolled unless the character is an Assassin.

Forcing the game to redraw a movement path in a random manner also consumes RNs. Something as simple as a 1U 1L or a 1L 1U will use 1 RN. I'm not sure if longer movement paths use more RNs or still just 1 RN.

Trading items and going through menus doesn't consume the RNs used for determining hits or level ups. Those use a different RNG sequence in FE7. I think there's either a Chinese or Japanese video out there that shows manipulation of the items RNG to pick up desert items.

Edited April 17, 2011 by dondon151

[Celice]

On NicoNico, there's some TAS videos of FE5 which will illustrate how easiest to abuse RNG in that game is. It doesn't show everything, but it does show some basic movements, such as move-manipulation.

[Anouleth]

I've played and replayed a chapter often enough to know that whenever I first reach a chapter, the game generates an insanely long sequence of random numbers, and that this sequence doesn't change even if I restart the chapter.

Only if you reset. At least with FE8, you can suspend and restart the chapter, and the RNG will be different (which also results in different enemy stats, which is good for those of us who want to manipulate them).

[dondon151]

Only if you reset. At least with FE8, you can suspend and restart the chapter, and the RNG will be different (which also results in different enemy stats, which is good for those of us who want to manipulate them).

I'm not entirely sure what you mean, but the RNG doesn't change when you suspend and restart a chapter. If it did, I wouldn't have been able to record some of those 0% strategies, which relied completely on prior knowledge of the RN sequence.

Edited April 27, 2011 by dondon151

[Anouleth]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean, but the RNG doesn't change when you suspend and restart a chapter. If it did, I wouldn't have been able to record some of those 0% strategies, which relied completely on prior knowledge of the RN sequence.

When I say 'suspend and restart', I mean restart the chapter, not resume the chapter from where you suspended. So start the chapter, immediately suspend, then pick 'restart chapter' and the RNG will have moved forward however many spaces it needs to generate the map (resulting in different enemy stats).

[dondon151]

When I say 'suspend and restart', I mean restart the chapter, not resume the chapter from where you suspended. So start the chapter, immediately suspend, then pick 'restart chapter' and the RNG will have moved forward however many spaces it needs to generate the map (resulting in different enemy stats).

Yeah, that's exactly what I meant. I just remember what I did, though - I never actually quit from the map; whenever I finished a practice attempt of the chapter, I would just revert back to the savestate that I kept before hitting "Restart Chapter" for the first time. That's why I didn't notice enemy stats changing.

[chococoke]

When I say 'suspend and restart', I mean restart the chapter, not resume the chapter from where you suspended. So start the chapter, immediately suspend, then pick 'restart chapter' and the RNG will have moved forward however many spaces it needs to generate the map (resulting in different enemy stats).

It wasn't this way for FE7, correct?

[shadowofchaos]

....I would just revert back to the savestate that I kept before hitting "Restart Chapter" for the first time. That's why I didn't notice enemy stats changing.

From my experience, resetting the emulator THEN restarting the chapter does it for you. Any mention of "savestates" screws you from resetting the RNG, or err... "moving it forward".

Edited April 27, 2011 by shadowofchaos

[Anouleth]

It wasn't this way for FE7, correct?

I checked, and it does work. As should be expected, really.

[dondon151]

I checked, and it does work. As should be expected, really.

I just checked as well. If you use the suspend function, the enemy stats will be different the next time you restart the chapter. If you restart the emulator (e.g. reset or close out), the enemy stats will always be the same when you restart the chapter (what shadowofchaos just pointed out).

As a final test, if you suspend, restart, save, and then reset the emulator, the enemy stats will revert to their first instance, and not back to what they were after you suspended and restarted.

[shadowofchaos]

Well... that pretty much shoots my suggestion out the window.

However, that's the thing that was pointing out. You were using a savestate to go back to the "restart chapter" screen. That's probably what was hitting your "RNG changing" attempts.

[dondon151]

Oh, I wasn't trying to change the RNG. If anything, I was trying to make it constant.

[Hawk King]

the RNs used to determine enemy stats are not the same RNs used for hit, critical and level ups. in a senerio where you have a healer who can level up on the first player phase (ei, using barrier or warp..) their level up will ALWAYS be the same no matter how many times you reset and start the chaper over. but every time you do start over the enemies stats will be different.

when attacking the game will use 2, 3, or 4 RNs.

if there is a miss it will only use 2. if its a hit a 3rd RN is used to determine criticals, and if the crit is successful, THEN a 4th RN is used for assassinate regardless if the units are assassins or not.

i know this because i frequently manipulate RNs for better levels or just to prevent RN screwage.

when leveling up im not entirely sure how many #s are used. i know the next 4 #s go to hp, str, skill, speed, in that order. after that im not sure if it mixes it up by going res, def, then luck. and im not sure if a RN is used for con, even though it has no growth. im too lazy to test it.