Record-breaking low turn count FE4 playthrough.

[Horakthi]

Yes, I know I have a thread asking for advice, but I figured it'd be better to make a general thread of my playthrough. No, I will not take videos because due to my playstyle my units die all the time.

So far, the current record (as far as I know) is 201 turns. I want to go down to 199 turns or less. I've decided to do this since I managed to prove that the Prologue is doable in 10 turns, and I think I can push chapter 3 down a turn.

I don't use save states.

[spoiler=Number of turns taken to seize each castle for each chapter completed]Prologue:

Jungby - 5

Evans - 10

Chapter 1:

Genoa - 4

Marpha - 9

Verdane - 22

Prologue - 10 turns

No general strategy here. Just rush. You need to get lucky to seize Jungby in 5 turns - have Sigurd get 2 strength level ups which isn't all too hard. You also need to kill the boss in a turn - Ethlin standing adjacent next to Sigurd can solve this with a sibling crit. I had Cuan weaken him which might not be needed, but Continue for the boss works as well as long as you can hit him twice. This is probably the lowest you can go. I had Fin get the Speed Ring.

Planned pairings:

Lex x Aira (strong, bulky units for chapter 6)

Levin x Fury (instant)

Lachesis x Beowulf (an easy one to do, Beowulf sucks anyway)

Azel x Aideen (for Rescue in chapters 4 and 5)

I won't bother pairing Sylvia, Bridget and Tiltyu.

Any comments about my playthrough / strategies / questions are welcome.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Horakthi

[Celice]

If you get the rescue staff, all chapters that staff is available, you can abuse the glitch with defending the castle.

A very fun and useful glitch. First make a character guard the main castle. Now have a character use the Rescue staff to return the guarding character to the main castle. When you make the guarding character leave for outside, they will be able to move forever- as long as you make them use the Sortie or Enter Castle command. This glitch can be used to break tons of events in the game, although the results of doing so can be unpredictable. A side-effect of this glitch is that you won't be able to make a character guard the castle again (since the game thinks it's still being guarded). To remove this effect, have the guarding character use the Enter Castle command to end the main castle.

I haven't done it myself, though it may be useful.

[Horakthi]

It might be a bit controversial if I use that glitch, but I think it's a valid technique as long as it's a part of the game.

I don't think Aideen x Claude is possible, unfortunately. Not enough turns. Chapter 6 and most of 7 could have had pseudo-dancing with Rana Rescuing Celice, oh well.

I expect Rescue Staff Leaf is going to be a huge help later on.

Edited April 24, 2011 by Horakthi

[Aleph]

This isn't really any of my business but whatever

Personally, I think using glitches isn't cheating because it's a part of the game and anyone can do it, but this mostly applies to playing counter-operative multiplayer games online.

Playing offline in a single player game, no one really cares whether you use glitches or not so it would be moot, except this is about breaking a world record.

In this case I would say the "fair" thing to do would be to use the glitch if and only if the strategy you're trying to defeat used it, and if it didn't, then I would say using the glitch basically disqualifies your playthrough for being considered competition and even puts it in a whole different category of playthrough types (similar to how a game like how SM64 has speed records with/without segmentation, getting all or none of the stars or some number in between, using tools to assist gameplay or not, etc. - all considered different categories and "runs" only qualify for particular ones).

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Azel x Aideen will get you Rescue staff for chapters 4 and 5 at least and it may be possible to have Master Knight Lachesis in chapter 5.

Edited April 24, 2011 by Sirius

[billymills]

nico video has a 161 turn completion, but that's probably a bit too much RNG abuse for your liking.

9 turn prologue means Sigurd has to dodge a ridiculous number of attacks.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm5401513

[Horakthi]

I won't use glitches.

Azel x Aideen is a really good idea. I'll edit my post. I'll make sure Lachesis promotes so I can complete chapters 4 and 5 extremely quickly with Rescue. She'll also want Warp and a Return Ring.. Hopefully she'll promote by 4. I can easily pair Aideen and Azel, since they have the same move.

161-turn completion sounds ridiculous in the first place. That's basically manipulating the game, and not playing it. I don't really count that.

[Rodykitty]

Most glitches people complain about are usually nowhere near as ridiculous as some developer intended stuff sometimes. If a glitch shouldn't be used, it's because it's too powerful, not because it's a glitch.

[Horakthi]

To me, a glitch will make it a different kind of playthrough.

The playthrough with the RNG abuse is a different kind of playthrough as well. I'm just trying to do as well as possible without real RNG abuse (only for some bosses, no save states). I haven't watched his vids yet since I'm on mobile but if there's a strategy to get 9 turns without significant RNG abuse I'll do it.

I'm considering the idea of just killing Jamka. I wouldn't need to bring Aideen (I can make her talk to the left behind Azel and stand next to him instead for chapters 4 and 5, which wouldn't be possible if I brought Aideen to Jamka, which takes ages).

I'm not sure and I'd like some comments about this strategy.

[Balcerzak]

Huh, I'd never seen this Nico run before, but I guess I had stopped looking after I found the first one. The strategy this time saves a turn by (in addition to ridiculous RN-fixing) not bothering to have Alvis talk to Sigurd, forgoing the Silver Sword. He also manages to pile some 28 kills on Sigurd's Steel sword, obviously gearing up for early Critical as a means of compensating.

[Horakthi]

Huh, I'd never seen this Nico run before, but I guess I had stopped looking after I found the first one. The strategy this time saves a turn by (in addition to ridiculous RN-fixing) not bothering to have Alvis talk to Sigurd, forgoing the Silver Sword. He also manages to pile some 28 kills on Sigurd's Steel sword, obviously gearing up for early Critical as a means of compensating.

I think it's possible to do it without getting the Silver Sword.. I hadn't considered that. I don't think it's worth it though, especially for Celice.

How ridiculous is his RN-fixing, and how does he do it? Also, do you think it's possible to 9-turn with the Silver Sword? I can't watch the vid.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Horakthi

[Balcerzak]

I think it's possible to do it without getting the Silver Sword.. I hadn't considered that. I don't think it's worth it though, especially for Celice.

How ridiculous is his RN-fixing, and how does he do it? Also, do you think it's possible to 9-turn with the Silver Sword? I can't watch the vid.

I noticed two main things.

1) I don't remember ever seeing a level where Sigurd did not gain Strength, Speed, and Defense. It's possible I wasn't watching closely and they happened, but...

[Edit: Okay, looking again it wasn't quite that bad. The stat screen at beginning of Ch1 shows Sigurd's stats. He has about +3 blessing in Strength and Defense, and is roughly average on Skill and Speed.]

2) Sigurd skated through 3/4 of the level at 6 HP and was never ever healed.

As for how? I can't say for certain, but it looked like extremely careful grid positioning which can sometime burn RN when the AI goes and tries to make decisions, and also careful choosing of the attack order. I honestly couldn't pinpoint anything else.

From the looks of it, the 9 turn was absolutely reliant on skipping Alvis, I don't think it would be possible with the Silver Sword unless you shave the extra turn on the initial march to Jungy, but I don't think even with the full contingent of Sigurd Noish Alec going south that that can possibly happen. DiMaggio needs hefty weakening for Sigurd to one round, and the beefy castle guard also needs to be taken out, so I think a Cuan contribution is a must on at least one of those two fronts.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Balcerzak

[Horakthi]

Yeah, Noish and Alec can't catch up to Sigurd and Cuan comes too late to help. Cuan is really inaccurate on DiMaggio with the Javelin, so he needs to get lucky for that as well..

I wonder if it's worth skipping the Silver Sword. You sure do get a plenty of kills in Prologue on the Steel Sword, but it has 4 less might. If it is, I might try it out.

What really intrigues me is how he cut a massive 50 turns. Is that really the difference between skill and RNG, or did the other girl who did the game in 201 turns just did it too slowly (I can hardly find turns to cut from hers so far)? I can't understand how without watching the vids, but it seems like he doesn't mind doing some crazy RNG abusing.

Also, what are your thoughts on keeping Jamka alive or killing him to save one or two turns?

You've been really helpful so far so thank you.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Horakthi

[dondon151]

161-turn completion sounds ridiculous in the first place. That's basically manipulating the game, and not playing it. I don't really count that.

Bullshit. You do whatever it takes. If your purpose is to make strategies that can be reliably replicated by any player, then that's a completely different beast (i.e. not a "record-breaking low turn count playthrough").

[Horakthi]

Bullshit. You do whatever it takes. If your purpose is to make strategies that can be reliably replicated by any player, then that's a completely different beast (i.e. not a "record-breaking low turn count playthrough").

If we can do whatever it takes, then why don't we use codes to hack stuff in? I'm sure you didnt mean that though, but I guess it's really cool and efficient to just restart the game over and over.

Anyway, we don't need you to get overemotional on this thread. Calm down.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Horakthi

[Rodykitty]

If we can do whatever it takes, then why don't we use codes to hack stuff in? I

Hacks can't be replicated by any player.

[Balcerzak]

Also, what are your thoughts on keeping Jamka alive or killing him to save one or two turns?

You've been really helpful so far so thank you.

Not really sure. Just finished watching where this run got to Jamka, and they managed to pull him forward enough that Aideen was able to recruit on Turn 14. It seemed to involve a combination of Cuan just blitzing past Marpha while Gandolf was still alive so that he could bash some of the vanguard of Barbarians, preventing a pile-up in the chokepoint from keeping Jamka from advancing due to his own men, and then Aideen was also blitzing as fast as she could. The crucial draw-in had Jamka take a potshot at Ethlin, who was standing just north of Aideen. Sigurd was just to the north of Ethlin, and Cuan was directly to her West.

[Horakthi]

Ah, I understand how he RNG abused. He didn't record it all in one sitting - I guess he cut parts that worked and put it in that vid. He also let Sigurd have 1 HP to lure all the enemies to him.

Chapter 1 -

Probably the best I could do without RNG abusing. Marpha to Verdane took 13 turns. I needed a sibling crit to get rid of Gandolf.

I Returned Aideen to home castle to talk to Azel and stand next to him. I also didn't forget to get the Return, Warp staves and the Hero Axe. I think I did okay.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Horakthi

[dondon151]

If we can do whatever it takes, then why don't we use codes to hack stuff in? I'm sure you didnt mean that though, but I guess it's really cool and efficient to just restart the game over and over.

Sure it is (restarting the game). Take a look at SDA runs. The runners reset thousands of times for necessary RNG manipulations.

Anyway, we don't need you to get overemotional on this thread. Calm down.

I don't need you to patronize me either, especially when you clearly don't completely understand what you're talking about.

[Horakthi]

Sure it is (restarting the game). Take a look at SDA runs. The runners reset thousands of times for necessary RNG manipulations.

I know that. It's SDA approved because there's nothing wrong with restarting the game by their rules. I never said there was something literally wrong with their speedruns that made them invalid (I used the adjective cool, I'm sure that's not in the SDA rule list), I just think it's boring and repetitive to do that. Didn't Vykan have to do thousands of resets for his FE10 runs? It took him 10 months. Yes, I do understand what I'm talking about.

Unfortunately, you're going off topic and this really has no place in the thread. Please avoid spouting emotional diatribe on a video game forum. It doesn't really make you look good.

Planning for chapter 2 now, but I need to decide whether Rescue will be useful to conquer Thove. I need to bring Dew along.. is it worth training Dew just for chapter 4 so he doesn't get murdered?

Also, if I break the Rescue Staff, will it pass on to Rana?

Edited April 25, 2011 by Horakthi

[Balcerzak]

Planning for chapter 2 now, but I need to decide whether Rescue will be useful to conquer Thove. I need to bring Dew along.. is it worth training Dew just for chapter 4 so he doesn't get murdered?

Also, if I break the Rescue Staff, will it pass on to Rana?

If you give Dew the Wind Sword or Light Sword, and maybe let him borrow the Speed Ring if he's underlevelled, he should be fine, IIRC. Level ~10 definitely fine, and he can probably get by at Level ~5, which you can probably get from Arena alone.

No, there are 4 different classifications of Broken, with rankings A, B, C, *. At least if I'm remembering correctly.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Balcerzak

[Horakthi]

If you give Dew the Wind Sword or Light Sword, and maybe let him borrow the Speed Ring if he's underlevelled, he should be fine, IIRC. Level ~10 definitely fine, and he can probably get by at Level ~5, which you can probably get from Arena alone.

No, there are 4 different classifications of Broken, with rankings A, B, C, *. At least if I'm remembering correctly.

He's almost at level 5 from sleeping at the church in Verdane. I'll try to level him up some more. If I'm going to do chapter 3 in 14 turns, there's no way I can get the Wind Sword. Any specific reason why he needs the Light Sword? Just to cause damage or does it cause the AI to avoid him?

For chapter 2, what would be the fastest possible strategy? Go all the way to Anphony with mounted units and have unmounted units parked near Mackily? If so, I'll bring along Ethlin nearby Sigurd to Return him right after seizing, and Return Levin to recruit Fury afterwards. I want to Silence that boss if possible before he sleeps Sigurd. I basically need to cut like 6 turns from my previous run, which is going to be tough.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Horakthi

[dondon151]

I know that. It's SDA approved because there's nothing wrong with restarting the game by their rules. I never said there was something literally wrong with their speedruns that made them invalid (I used the adjective cool, I'm sure that's not in the SDA rule list), I just think it's boring and repetitive to do that. Didn't Vykan have to do thousands of resets for his FE10 runs? It took him 10 months. Yes, I do understand what I'm talking about.

Really?

161-turn completion sounds ridiculous in the first place. That's basically manipulating the game, and not playing it. I don't really count that.

You said yourself that you "don't really count" a heavy manipulation low turn run of FE4, which means that there's something about it that you disparage.

Unfortunately, you're going off topic and this really has no place in the thread. Please avoid spouting emotional diatribe on a video game forum. It doesn't really make you look good.

Avoiding the topic because you can't come up with a response doesn't make you look good, either. I'm free to point out that you arbitrarily classify different degrees of manipulation of the RNG to conform to your definition of "record-breaking low turn count." There's no imaginary ethical code to stop you from RNG abusing as much as you want to achieve your means.

Edited April 25, 2011 by dondon151

[Horakthi]

You said yourself that you "don't really count" a heavy manipulation low turn run of FE4, which means that there's something about it that you disparage.

Yes, me. I'm not the SDA.

Avoiding the topic because you can't come up with a response doesn't make you look good, either.

I never avoided the topic. Even if I try to change the topic, I always reply to what you say.

I'm free to point out that you arbitrarily classify different degrees of manipulation of the RNG to conform to your definition of "record-breaking low turn count."

Are you really comparing me to Vykan when I only restart a couple times for a 35% chance critical to save a turn? That'll take a few minutes at most. Anyone has the patience to do that. Big deal. People make arbitrary concepts all the time, like age.

What are you trying to accomplish? I don't want to go off topic. I just want to talk about my run.

Edited April 25, 2011 by Horakthi

[Balcerzak]

He's almost at level 5 from sleeping at the church in Verdane. I'll try to level him up some more. If I'm going to do chapter 3 in 14 turns, there's no way I can get the Wind Sword. Any specific reason why he needs the Light Sword? Just to cause damage or does it cause the AI to avoid him?

For chapter 2, what would be the fastest possible strategy? Go all the way to Anphony with mounted units and have unmounted units parked near Mackily? If so, I'll bring along Ethlin nearby Sigurd to Return him right after seizing, and Return Levin to recruit Fury afterwards. I want to Silence that boss if possible before he sleeps Sigurd. I basically need to cut like 6 turns from my previous run, which is going to be tough.

Well, the Light Sword will give him WTA vs Wind Mages if they attack at range, and it shouldn't weigh him down that much. It's mostly to do damage and to steal money, because I think the AI will still often prioritize Dew over others, but I can't swear to it.

For the Sleep Sword boss, apparently he wants to prioritize attacking with his tome, if someone is in range, so that may be an option if you're having trouble lugging Dierdre around to wherever you want her to be. Other than that, yeah, pretty much a straight shot to Anphony with the mounteds.

Edit: Hika shared a link that should be good for viewing Nico videos if you can't log in for whatever reason.

http://polsy.org.uk/play/nico/

Edited April 25, 2011 by Balcerzak