Bull(crap) Mafia

[Scarlet]

Cool story, bro

##Use Master Spark on: Fear The Pika

[Kriemhild]

What Rein did is his own fault. And I never received a PM like this, even though I'm moleing StK.

It doesn't matter. Yes, it was Rein's fault for breaking the rules and it was my fault for trusting you. Whatever they were caused by, it doesn't change the fact that STK is standing on the edge of a precipice and that all the other players, including yourself, should be smart enough to pick on someone less threatening.

And I'm offering more than just the identities and aliases, I'm offering the roles and identities of some of the other players, as well as the ideas that StK had about other players.

You're acting as if STK knew a whole lot about the other factions. And very little of the info is actually confirmed anyway. Even if some of it is true, why would anyone here want to have the info regarding their own faction leaked to other factions?

And of course I broke my "promise" first, because that's what my role told me to do.

Then stop accusing me of breaking oaths.

My entire goal in this game was to sink Skillz that Killz and help my true faction to victory.

Nope, you're wrong about the first part. Your goal was only to help your true faction to victory. Your link to STK was only a tool that would help you mislead us as well as gain extra info. Now that we know you're a mole, we obviously don't trust you anymore, and you can no longer utilize your moling any further. You have absolutely nothing to gain from lynching me than you would by lynching anyone else. Besides, why would you lynch someone when you already know their alias? Wouldn't the people with unknown aliases be more difficult to shut down if they're not lynched?

You're one of the ones who wanted Rein dead, you helped put your faction at that disadvantage.

That is not true. You're the one who brought up the whole "let's leave him to die". I admit I did not completely trust him until he died but I had absolutely nothing to do with the lynch.

Actually, if you guys must know, Kiku here is offering the entire sheet to individual players. I'm just making it public that I am.

And that is also false. There is only one person who may have told you something like that and if you ask him again, he can tell you that I am being extremely reluctant to share any kind of information regarding other factions. I have not given the spreadsheet to ANYONE in the entire game except you and I don't intend to give it to anyone else outside my faction.

And there is nothing on my own faction, actually. Nothing of any importance.

Indeed. Like I said, even if the info you're offering is true, the players wouldn't want it to be public. Except members of your own faction, because you obviously wouldn't keep anything in the sheet that could be bad for them. This pretty much proves my point that you actually want players to read your spreadsheet, rather than simply use that as a reward for having me lynched, because you obviously have nothing to fear from me.

Why do I want you dead? Does this ring a bell?

00:13:16: <Kitty-Ichimonji> You're dead now

00:13:19: <Kitty-Ichimonji> You realize that, right?

Self preservation. You want me dead, so I want you dead so I don't die. That's what I gain by lynching you. That's why I "so desperately" want you dead. That's what I have to gain by offering the same spreadsheet you are offering individuals by PM. Life. I don't want them all to have it, I never wanted them all to have it. But now that you've forced my hand, I need them to have it so I don't die.

Huh?

#Vote: Kiku-Ichimonji.

If I survive and he is lynched, I will personally PM anyone who voted for Kiku the names of two people in his faction, or their roles.

Before this, I have not made a single post in this thread. Not even one. How was I endangering your life to the point that you had to resort to THIS??? And you didn't wait to see everyone else's reaction before offering up those info about my faction. How is that self-preservation?

And, as I said, I did not offer the spreadsheet to anyone myself. Yes, I have asked one person (and only one person) if they would change their vote if I gave them the same spreadsheet, but I never really intended to give it away. That person agreed btw and you can see his stance right now.

Um, yes, I do. But remember, you also offered this info out. I feel like I keep returning to that point, because that's what the entire base of your argument is. I have info that I can alter and sell, but you're trying to sell it to get me lynched, and you can alter it!

Except I don't want this info out. I am not trying to sell it to anyone. I did not try to get you lynched until you tried to get everyone to lynch me. And yes, I can alter it as well, but why should I? I don't want anyone else to see it.

Seriously, I could just make a fake spreadsheet right now and fill it up with <insert title of this game here> and declare that I'll send it to everyone that votes for you and has you lynched. Oh, wait, no one would fall for that. Fine, I am going to make it more appealing by pretending like I'm really interested in lynching a member that's in a doomed faction which is entirely at our mercy, and having this fake spreadsheet put up as a reward just so that people would actually bother to read it and would hopefully be misled by it. Did you really think they would fall for something as stupid as that?

You've been leaving out things in your argument, things that manipulate your words to mean other things.

Care to elaborate?

I've been completely honest wherever my role has not told me to lie, you have not. Your move, Kiku.

I don't think so. I never once lied in this game and I want to know what you meant by those three words. If it's about the whole "let's team up now that I know you're a mole and I'm screwed anyways", you must be a big idiot if you think I would continue to try allying with you after you tried to have me lynched with the intention of giving away MY spreadsheet to anyone who aids you in that.

Um, because Proto said it earlier? Because he made it public first.

You honestly cannot be stupid enough to try pinning this all on me, can you? You're the one who was all "Lynch him and I'll tell you his buddies". How did I make this public first? I was the one who wanted to team up with you, but nooooooo, you just had to tell the world that you had STK's spreadsheet and was willing to share it to the world. In case you haven't noticed, that's pretty much an absolute mole claim.

Besides that now I have given all the info I had to my faction, my role as a mole has come to an end. Really, why kill a mole that has no use?

Because you're still in a faction that has four people and five aliases alive. And you learned a lot of info from your moling. I would say your faction is the biggest threat to all of the other factions atm.

[Jaybee]

Because some people don't know how to read!

A mad cow bit you today and you have been placed in quarantine. You will stay there for the next night and day.

Because you have been quarantined, you cannot talk to anyone in private. This includes via PMs or IRC. You may, however, still post in the thread.

This extends to Day 2, so Flint, stop fucking PMing me.

[Darros]

##Vote:Fear the Pika

[Fear The Pika]

It doesn't matter. Yes, it was Rein's fault for breaking the rules and it was my fault for trusting you. Whatever they were caused by, it doesn't change the fact that STK is standing on the edge of a precipice and that all the other players, including yourself, should be smart enough to pick on someone less threatening.

Yes, StK is on the edge of a precipice. I was all for leaving it alone, but then what do I hear? That you're PMing other players to try to get me lynched. Why should I stop trying to kill you when you never stopped trying to kill me?

You're acting as if STK knew a whole lot about the other factions. And very little of the info is actually confirmed anyway. Even if some of it is true, why would anyone here want to have the info regarding their own faction leaked to other factions?

I'm just bargaining with what I have, I'm all for hearing what I shouldn't be doing. You were the one who started bargaining with the entire spreadsheet first, I just stepped you up one.

Then stop accusing me of breaking oaths.

But, as I said, it was my role to do so. My entire role was centered around lying to you. What do you think I should've done when you asked me if I was the mole? "Oh yes, I'm the mole, kill me now"? I lied to you and passed the info I gained along, as per my role. Where in your role does it say that you'll tell me one thing and then go do another? Because I'm pretty certain that that part doesn't exist.

Nope, you're wrong about the first part. Your goal was only to help your true faction to victory. Your link to STK was only a tool that would help you mislead us as well as gain extra info. Now that we know you're a mole, we obviously don't trust you anymore, and you can no longer utilize your moling any further. You have absolutely nothing to gain from lynching me than you would by lynching anyone else. Besides, why would you lynch someone when you already know their alias? Wouldn't the people with unknown aliases be more difficult to shut down if they're not lynched?

Actually, no, I'm not wrong. When I asked Life about my PM before the game started, he told me that my job wasn't to get info back to my faction, it was to ruin you guys. See, here's a fun fact about moles. We cannot directly report back to our real faction with any and all info we gain by moleing another faction. So my number one priority was to ruin you guys. I just found a loophole in this rule and utilized it. And I would love to lynch someone else, but wait, I wouldn't. Why not? Because you're the only one trying to kill me. Why don't you get that? You're trying to get me killed, so I'm trying to get you killed. Simple as that.

That is not true. You're the one who brought up the whole "let's leave him to die". I admit I did not completely trust him until he died but I had absolutely nothing to do with the lynch.

You certainly didn't help him not to be lynched. Of course I brought up the "let's leave him to die", I wanted the real mole for StK dead. So while you didn't actively participate, you didn't try to help him.

And that is also false. There is only one person who may have told you something like that and if you ask him again, he can tell you that I am being extremely reluctant to share any kind of information regarding other factions. I have not given the spreadsheet to ANYONE in the entire game except you and I don't intend to give it to anyone else outside my faction.

Then how do you explain offering it the Radiant Dragon? How do you explain this?

01:51:46: <Radiant> In an interesting turn of events, Proto says he'll give me the spreadsheet if I vote for you.

Yeah, thanks for lying again, you're just digging yourself a hole~

Indeed. Like I said, even if the info you're offering is true, the players wouldn't want it to be public. Except members of your own faction, because you obviously wouldn't keep anything in the sheet that could be bad for them. This pretty much proves my point that you actually want players to read your spreadsheet, rather than simply use that as a reward for having me lynched, because you obviously have nothing to fear from me.

Dude, really? You keep saying that I have nothing to fear from you, yet you want me dead. I think that alone is something to fear from you. I would be happy to leave this information exclusive, but you're forcing me to offer it publicly because you're trying to kill me. I will make and honor deals to share this information if it keeps me alive.

Huh?

You say you kill me, me no want to die. Me offer information so me no die.

Before this, I have not made a single post in this thread. Not even one. How was I endangering your life to the point that you had to resort to THIS??? And you didn't wait to see everyone else's reaction before offering up those info about my faction. How is that self-preservation?

No, you haven't. That's what IRC is for. You said that you're going to kill me, but you did it on IRC. A lot of you threatening to kill me has been through PM. And no, I didn't, I took the initiative. Why should I wait for you to attack me on the forum? I would like to live, so I'm not going to twiddle my thumbs as you take your sweet time to try to get me killed.

And, as I said, I did not offer the spreadsheet to anyone myself. Yes, I have asked one person (and only one person) if they would change their vote if I gave them the same spreadsheet, but I never really intended to give it away. That person agreed btw and you can see his stance right now.

Soooooooo, let me get this straight. You told them that you're going to give them the spreadsheet, but you don't actually intend to give it to them? Because that's what it looks like to me. It looks like "vote for Pika and I'll give you this, but once he's dead there's no way I'm going to give you this. At least, not with the names of the people in my faction."

Except I don't want this info out. I am not trying to sell it to anyone. I did not try to get you lynched until you tried to get everyone to lynch me. And yes, I can alter it as well, but why should I? I don't want anyone else to see it.

Um... Yeah... See the little section right above this? You did sell it to someone. So you're contradicting yourself. Ya know, you really shouldn't do that while you're trying to argue a point, it's not exactly good. You say you're not trying to sell it and you don't want anyone else to see it, but you did sell it, and you're probably not going to pony up with the information.

Seriously, I could just make a fake spreadsheet right now and fill it up with <insert title of this game here> and declare that I'll send it to everyone that votes for you and has you lynched. Oh, wait, no one would fall for that. Fine, I am going to make it more appealing by pretending like I'm really interested in lynching a member that's in a doomed faction which is entirely at our mercy, and having this fake spreadsheet put up as a reward just so that people would actually bother to read it and would hopefully be misled by it. Did you really think they would fall for something as stupid as that?

See, here's the thing. You could do this, sure. Go ahead and try. Yes, I'm interested in lynching you because you claimed on IRC that I'm dead and you're going to kill me. No, I don't think they'll fall for something like that, or that they'll fall for you grasping at straws. You keep saying that I'm trying to lynch to so I can spread the information. But why bother? I would rather not be fighting to stay alive and not spread any information. But, unfortunately you've made it come to this. Kudos to you for finally taking down the original document, btw. Too bad I already made my copy a while ago. Yes, I could edit stuff, yes I could say things that aren't true. But why? I don't care if X thinks that Y is in another faction, they don't have to believe everything on the sheet. But there's the StK faction and their aliases and roles on it.

Care to elaborate?

I've already said what I meant. You've been talking about how I've been offering this information, but neglecting to say that you're offering the same information. You're asking why I want you dead, but failing to say that you're the one who threatened to kill me first. Little things, but you're leaving them out to appear innocent and make me the only bad guy.

I don't think so. I never once lied in this game and I want to know what you meant by those three words. If it's about the whole "let's team up now that I know you're a mole and I'm screwed anyways", you must be a big idiot if you think I would continue to try allying with you after you tried to have me lynched with the intention of giving away MY spreadsheet to anyone who aids you in that.

Oh, I never believed you, but you said it. Therefore, you lied when you said it. So why did you bother saying it? You told me that you were all for getting Kaoz lynched. Would I actually believe someone who threatened to kill me? Not a chance. But you told me that you wanted to team up. So you admitted that you lied right here. Contradicting yourself again, are you?

Because you're still in a faction that has four people and five aliases alive. And you learned a lot of info from your moling. I would say your faction is the biggest threat to all of the other factions atm.

Actually, there's another faction that has the same info with four people and five aliases alive, are you going to say that they're a huge threat, too? Actually, it looks like I'm offering to give this info to the two other factions that have four people and five aliases alive! One of which who's "bad" mole is dead! Imagine that! What am I offering to stay alive? My advantage in the game. I live, the playing field is leveled for everyone but StK. But that's just because a successful mission to ruin you was successful. Your move again, Proto. I'm getting a little tired, why don't you step it up, if you can?

[BK-201]

##Vote: Kiku-Ichimonji

Edited July 3, 2011 by BK-201

[Guest Wen Yang]

##vote: Pika

Your offer is too good to be true, even if you want StK dead.

Besides, how will we even know that what you offer is true in the first place?

And no offense, but moles are too big a risk to leave alive IMO.

[Zkirsche]

Well, as long as it isn't my faction, I don't mind.

##Vote: Kiku-Ichimonji

[BK-201]

##Unvote: Pika

##Vote:Kiku-Ichimonji

[Scarlet]

You realize that everyone who's voting for Proto is being completely unreasonable right now? The StK is already at a disadvantage, and chances are they won't recover anytime soon. So why waste your lynch on an already-weakened faction when just about everyone else is a much greather threat? Multi-faction isn't about "gang up on one faction until it's dead and then kill the next", simply because the other factions aren't very likely to just sit there and watch. If you don't want any single faction except your own to gain the upper hand, then you actually have to make an effort to keep the numbers roughly even. And that's not what you guys are currently doing.

[Jaybee]

Whoever gets left alive will probably die this phase anyway.

[Fear The Pika]

You realize that everyone who's voting for Proto is being completely unreasonable right now? The StK is already at a disadvantage, and chances are they won't recover anytime soon. So why waste your lynch on an already-weakened faction when just about everyone else is a much greather threat? Multi-faction isn't about "gang up on one faction until it's dead and then kill the next", simply because the other factions aren't very likely to just sit there and watch. If you don't want any single faction except your own to gain the upper hand, then you actually have to make an effort to keep the numbers roughly even. And that's not what you guys are currently doing.

I would've been happy to leave Proto alone, I had gotten the information I needed. But Proto had to say that he's going to kill me. As I said, I wasn't going to wait for him to make an argument to lynch me, I just don't sit around and wait. If he hadn't been so bent on killing me and threatening to kill me and saying he's going to kill me through that PM, I would've been fine to see where this day went and make a decision from there. But no, Proto had to decide that I must die. So I want him dead before he kills me.

[Life]

For the last time, change your vote in your original post. If you do not do this, your vote will not count.

BK, I'm looking at you. Read the rules next time.

[Radiant Dragon]

##Unvote, Vote: Fear the Pika.

I've made my decision. Sorry, Pika.

[Jaybee]

RD, lrn2vote?

[Life]

For the last time, change your vote in your original post. If you do not do this, your vote will not count.

Does ANYONE here know how to follow rules?

[Psych]

I followed them.

[Life]

Also, 18 hours or so are left.

[Radiant Dragon]

For the last time, change your vote in your original post. If you do not do this, your vote will not count.

I did.

Edited July 3, 2011 by Radiant Kitty

[Scarlet]

I would've been happy to leave Proto alone, I had gotten the information I needed. But Proto had to say that he's going to kill me. As I said, I wasn't going to wait for him to make an argument to lynch me, I just don't sit around and wait. If he hadn't been so bent on killing me and threatening to kill me and saying he's going to kill me through that PM, I would've been fine to see where this day went and make a decision from there. But no, Proto had to decide that I must die. So I want him dead before he kills me.

I was adressing everyone.

Besides, "I'm voting you because you voted me" is the most retarded reason to vote someone ever.

[Fear The Pika]

I was adressing everyone.

Besides, "I'm voting you because you voted me" is the most retarded reason to vote someone ever.

Yes, I know you were, but I felt I should reply to you anyway. And who else should I vote for? Who else should I try to get lynched? It's him or me.

[Scarlet]

And who else should I vote for? Who else should I try to get lynched?

How about you try to figure that out on your own? After all, the info you stole should be more than enough to figure out which faction you should deal with next.

In fact, even if you had never seen the spreadsheet, there would be more than enough info available to clearly determine that two factions currently are significantly worse off than the others.

[Fear The Pika]

How about you try to figure that out on your own? After all, the info you stole should be more than enough to figure out which faction you should deal with next.

In fact, even if you had never seen the spreadsheet, there would be more than enough info available to clearly determine that two factions currently are significantly worse off than the others.

For the record, I never stole anything. He gave it to me. I didn't even ask, he offered it. And I know they are, but Proto is the one trying to get me killed. If he's dead, the person who's arguing for my lynching is dead. He could've stopped, but no.

[Scarlet]

For the record, I never stole anything. He gave it to me. I didn't even ask, he offered it.

I don't really care what you call it, the result is the same.

And I know they are, but Proto is the one trying to get me killed. If he's dead, the person who's arguing for my lynching is dead. He could've stopped, but no.

Looks like you didn't understand my point.

But do as you please. It's not my job to help you win, after all.

[Aleph]

I'm lazy; is it Proto or Pika who is likely being destroyed at the moment?