Zkirsche Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Pirate ship is a little iffy too IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmKALLL Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Also, add Pictochat, if going with such oddities. It's legal'er than many (no, nothing to do with it being my best stage, no) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Red Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 Chaoskitty or whatever his kittyname is has teamed up with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knife Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) Remove Onett and Green Greens. I don't agree with Luigi's Mansion and Shadow Moses either, but they're not quite as bad (okay, Shadow Moses is, it promotes some teams too much) and I think I can live with it. It might even be a fun change. Assuming they get picked. Alright. Pirate ship is a little iffy too IMO. Okay. Also, add Pictochat, if going with such oddities. It's legal'er than many (no, nothing to do with it being my best stage, no) Sure. Updated list: Battlefield Final Destination Delfino Plaza Luigi's Mansion (since there are 4 players, wall collapsing is gonna be common and players can free their teammates from wall combos) Yoshi's Island (Brawl) Halberd Lylat Cruise Pokemon Stadium 2 Castle Siege Smashville Pictochat Shadow Moses Island (teammates can free foes from walking off the screen with chaingrabbing) Corneria Pokemon Stadium This tournament will be put on hold until one of the other tournaments ends, due to the "no more than 2 tournaments going on" rule. Xanderdog also says he can't play until the September 1st, due to his Wii being broken. So really, I'm still waiting on Kirsche to give out his brawl name and FC... Everyone will be paired by this Sunday so you'll have some time to come up with a team name and work out some strategies. Edited August 23, 2011 by Knitty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmKALLL Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) Kirsche gives his FC in the IP chat, lol. As for telling Brawl names, they don't matter at all. If both players are online at the same time, they sync according to what they have set themselves. The name you give during registration is only temporary, and doesn't matter the least after that player has registered you. Also, Corneria? Team Ness gogo. Especially with Team Attack off. Remove it (I mean, the stage, the poll showed that most people clearly want to get owned by coordinated attacks which are superior but only doable without Team Attack - and I have nothing against that) Also, without Team Attack some teams become that much less usable (IC/Lucario/Fox/etc+PSI and double PSI are probably the biggest examples), and double MK can go berserk without any need to space at all. Be prepared Edited August 23, 2011 by mmKALLL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaoz Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Pirate Ship has way less issues than some of the other stages (i.e. Luigi's Mansion, Picto, Shadow Moses, Corneria), I don't see why it should be removed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmKALLL Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I agree, but it also is a hard counter for some characters (the water is the reason, mostly), just like Picto is advantageous for some (Falco and Marth come into mind). These aren't as big problems as with some of the stages, though. I'm a little biased, though, since Picto is allowed in many tournaments, but I'm quite sure that there are reasons behind this and not allowing Pirate Ship. I trust -LzR- enough on that - he always seems to have a good reason to explain with when I wonder about ruleset stuff. And I doubt that Kirsche really cares about counterpicking and anything - rather, just personal distaste towards the stage, probably? But no matter. If you don't like Picto, then Waha Kitty should remove it too, I guess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaoz Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I agree, but it also is a hard counter for some characters (the water is the reason, mostly), just like Picto is advantageous for some (Falco and Marth come into mind). These aren't as big problems as with some of the stages, though. I'm a little biased, though, since Picto is allowed in many tournaments, but I'm quite sure that there are reasons behind this and not allowing Pirate Ship. I trust -LzR- enough on that - he always seems to have a good reason to explain with when I wonder about ruleset stuff. Well, Picto was removed from the UR due to excessive randomness (to be exact, because of that one transformation that draws a line over the left edge because it can gimp you before it's actually drawn). Pirate Ship isn't legal mostly due to rudder stalling, but people seem to have tested that recently and it seems quite unsafe overall. Regardless, I didn't mean to make this a stage debate, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zkirsche Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Don't ships in the background shoot bombs at you on pirate ship? That and the water make it a pretty terrible map IMO. Anyway, my FC is 5198-5406-3863 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaoz Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Don't ships in the background shoot bombs at you on pirate ship? That and the water make it a pretty terrible map IMO. Yeah but you can see them coming from a mile away. I played the stage with Soul, it was laggy as hell but we still had little trouble with avoiding the bombs. Also if you are on the top platform, you will never get hit by any bomb. I don't see why the water is that much of a problem honestly :/ But I don't really care whether it's included, whatever works for you guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonBladeSniper Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Can we also remove the team healer item? I think it'd be better to not have any items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Red Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 ^boom pirate ship sucks IMO, I recall Xeylode getting his butt whooped by bombs a couple of times, and he won the other tournament so that's saying something IMO -_- Also... people are using STRATEGIES in this? Team combos? The hell is this, it's just a 1+1v1+1 as far as I'm concerned! :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knife Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 (edited) Also, Corneria? Team Ness gogo. Especially with Team Attack off. Remove it (I mean, the stage, the poll showed that most people clearly want to get owned by coordinated attacks which are superior but only doable without Team Attack - and I have nothing against that) Also, without Team Attack some teams become that much less usable (IC/Lucario/Fox/etc+PSI and double PSI are probably the biggest examples), and double MK can go berserk without any need to space at all. Be prepared Alright. You guys debate whatever stages you want on the list, my role in this was to propose the initial list and to listen with as little resistance as possible. Just remember that both teams can agree on which stages on the list they want or don't want to play on, if anyone has a personal beef with the stages. Can we also remove the team healer item? I think it'd be better to not have any items. Team Healer will only appear very rarely at low, literally at Smash Ball levels of rare. However, if both teams agree not to use Team Healer then I'm not going to make them. It's just the only legal item in this tournament. ^boom pirate ship sucks IMO, I recall Xeylode getting his butt whooped by bombs a couple of times, and he won the other tournament so that's saying something IMO -_- Also... people are using STRATEGIES in this? Team combos? The hell is this, it's just a 1+1v1+1 as far as I'm concerned! :D It's up to you to use strategies or not. If you want to have a 1+1vs.1+1, so be it, just be warned that this is extremely unlikely as someone always ends up getting in the way. Also, I've sent out a PM to the unpaired players. Please respond as quickly as you can so as to allow you all more time to get ready. Updated stage list: BattlefieldFinal Destination Delfino Plaza Luigi's Mansion Yoshi's Island (Brawl) Halberd Lylat Cruise Pokemon Stadium 2 Castle Siege Smashville Pictochat (maybe) Shadow Moses Island Pokemon Stadium Pictochat staying in is still being discussed. Also, just curious, why is Luigi's mansion not legal? Seems perfectly legal to me once the infinite wall combos are gone. Edited August 23, 2011 by Knitty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaoz Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Pictochat staying in is still being discussed. Also, just curious, why is Luigi's mansion not legal? Seems perfectly legal to me once the infinite wall combos are gone. As far as I know, issues that were brought up over time include circle camping, the cave of life and the wall combos you mentioned, also the house seems to regenerate too fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmKALLL Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 ^this. Also, Doubles don't really have a separate legal stage list, which means that banned stages should stay banned in doubles. It's quite a common misinterpretation, actually, but once your teammate dies, the situation is practically unwinnable if your character is not advantageous there and the opponent is. Especially if it's 2v1, without team attack. You really can't beat those dissynched phantom attacks - it's like fighting 3v1 or even 4v1 with team attack, more like (since with team attack, they can't pressure as much as they might hit their friends - especially if it's something like double Ike). And Luigi's mansion is heavily circeable, and there are the problems you mentioned as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knife Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 As far as I know, issues that were brought up over time include circle camping, the cave of life and the wall combos you mentioned, also the house seems to regenerate too fast. Waha Kitty... ^this. Also, Doubles don't really have a separate legal stage list, which means that banned stages should stay banned in doubles. It's quite a common misinterpretation, actually, but once your teammate dies, the situation is practically unwinnable if your character is not advantageous there and the opponent is. Especially if it's 2v1, without team attack. You really can't beat those dissynched phantom attacks - it's like fighting 3v1 or even 4v1 with team attack, more like (since with team attack, they can't pressure as much as they might hit their friends - especially if it's something like double Ike). And Luigi's mansion is heavily circeable, and there are the problems you mentioned as well. When it comes down to 2 vs. 1, you're at a clear disadvantage on any stage, friendly fire on or off, period. I actually like Team Attack too, makes for some interesting strategies, but the poll has spoken. And if everyone has has problem with it, I guess we could remove it from the list. Also, does anyone have a problem with Pictochat? Like I said, you can always agree on not using the stage if you personally don't want to play on it. I've received everyone's response to the questions. I will pair all of you up by Sunday. If you want to pair up with someone in particular instead of randomly, the rest of this week is the time to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmKALLL Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 (edited) When it comes down to 2 vs. 1, you're at a clear disadvantage on any stage, friendly fire on or off, period. This isn't true. Of course, it depends on the characters and players, but generally 2v1 is not that disadvantageous (unless Team Attack is off, then it is pretty much unwinnable). If you're in a good stage and use characters like MK or even Marth who can bait and space well, you might even be at an advantage than with a friend, when things are much more hectic, usually. I personally am also pretty good in 2v1 (team attack on, again) - I often can get two or even three stocks in total off per each stock that I have remaining. This is due to poor team dynamics, which ensues in the two players hitting each other in addition to me hitting them with properly spaced forward aerials, for example. In addition, camping is extremely effective, even more so than in 1v1, at times, since the opponents can't communicate real-time. And engaging me in a 1v1 when I'm at a good position (camping) would be pretty dangerous for anyone on these forums. Well, I can't beat things outside of my level, though. But if I have two stocks and it's 2v1 so that the other team has a total of three or less, I think the odds are favourable to me.On paper I would lose, sure, but real brawl between two or four humans can't completely be calculated on paper. Edited August 24, 2011 by mmKALLL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knife Posted August 28, 2011 Author Share Posted August 28, 2011 (edited) I'm gonna have to move for Pictochat to be removed. I played against mmKALLL there and there are just way too many hazards (mostly that wind and spikes) and stalling methods (the diagonal line and the boxes that appear around the character) on the stage. This will be finalized list if no one has anything to say: Battlefield Final Destination Delfino Plaza Luigi's Mansion Yoshi's Island (Brawl) Halberd Lylat Cruise Pokemon Stadium 2 Castle Siege Smashville Shadow Moses Island Pokemon Stadium Also, here are the teams. Most of them were picked based on your proximity to your teammate. Knife X Quintessence DragonBladeSniper X Slayer 55caasi X kirsche Pride X Xanderdog (may be swapped out with sub) Luffy X Chaoskitty mmKALLL X Dyna Xanderdog may not be able to play if his Wii is not fixed after he tries cleaning its lens. Just in case this happens, I'll allow a substitute player to join. Even if Xanderdog can play, the sub will be there to play in case one of the players drops out or is unavailable for a long period of time. First round will be starting on Friday, September 2nd. Come up with your team names and post them here by then, otherwise mmKALLL will end up using a random name generator for your team and it'll be something lame. You may also use this time to come up with character picks or strategies if you like. Edited August 28, 2011 by Knitty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonBladeSniper Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 (edited) OK cool. Can you put the deadline a bit far? Because I might be busy for the Labour day weekend. Thanks. Our team name is Dragon Slayers. Edited August 28, 2011 by DragonBladeSniper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmKALLL Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Face it, Waha Kitty. You're just salty of me knowing how to play at Picto since it's my CP, and you don't. Remove that Luigi's Mansion while at it. We played there and you know why it's not good. (unless you like people living at 200+%, especially if they bothered to ukemi at all) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knife Posted August 29, 2011 Author Share Posted August 29, 2011 (edited) OK cool. Can you put the deadline a bit far? Because I might be busy for the Labour day weekend. Thanks. Our team name is Dragon Slayers. Sure, I'll move the start of round 1 to Monday, September 5th. If anyone has a problem with when the round starts, let me know. Face it, Waha Kitty. You're just salty of me knowing how to play at Picto since it's my CP, and you don't. Remove that Luigi's Mansion while at it. We played there and you know why it's not good. (unless you like people living at 200+%, especially if they bothered to ukemi at all) *is still upset at losing the tournament because of Pictochat* Sure, that's cool. New list and hopefully last: Battlefield Final Destination Delfino Plaza Yoshi's Island (Brawl) Halberd Lylat Cruise Pokemon Stadium 2 Castle Siege Smashville Shadow Moses Island Pokemon Stadium Also, you can request a color associated with your team name. I'm just using colors to make the sign-ups look better. Edited August 29, 2011 by Knitty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmKALLL Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 (edited) That list looks cool. Blue. Definitely Blue. And our team name is "Finnish TechSkill." Edited August 29, 2011 by mmKALLL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 (edited) Blue. Definitely Blue. And our team name is "Finnish TechSkill." Damn. I wanted blue :( Final destination, 1v1 no items actually since he didn't specify i want this blue it doesn't matter btw. Edited August 29, 2011 by SlayerX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmKALLL Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 actually we can both be blue for now, but I'll settle it before the actual match Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 You can keep blue if you want. I was thinking of asking Dragon first but since you beat me to it, it doesn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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