Efficiency playlog

[Lord Raven]

Chapter 14

Turncount: 3/75

Preparations:

-- Marcia/Kieran C, Jill/Mist C, Titania/Mist C

-- Knight Ward to Kieran

-- Forged a Max Mt/Ht Steel Axe for Boyd

-- BEXP:

         Level  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res
Ike       14.00  37  14   4  12  15  10  12   5
Jill      14.00  29  16   2  15  14   7  13   2
Boyd      14.00  40  15   0   9  13   7   7   4
Astrid    03.00  20   7   2   7   9   5   6   5

BEXP Remaining: 7

You would be surprised as to how abusable Astrid is with BEXP -- the first point of BEXP at Level 2 gives her 4 EXP. I only needed 20 to finish her level (since she already had 20 EXP). Her first 6 at Level 3 only cost 2 BEXP. I will be recruiting Makalov.

Units deployed: Ike, Mist, Boyd, Marcia, Kieran, Soren, Mordecai, Oscar, Titania, Jill, Volke, Sothe, Astrid

         Level  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res
Ike       14.65  37  14   4  12  15  10  12   5
Mist      02.22  17   1   4   4   7   6   2   7
Boyd      14.58  40  15   0   9  13   7   7   4
Marcia    02.35+ 37  19   7  21  22  12  14  18
Kieran    17.49  34  15   3  12  14   9  12   1
Mordecai  02.01+ 41  22   2  12  11  10  16   7
Soren     13.71  23   2  14  18  13  10   3  14
Oscar     17.19  33  15   2  13  17   6  14   2
Titania   09.39+ 39  17   7  16  18  15  14  12
Jill      15.16  30  17   2  16  14   7  14   2
Volke     10.10  25  12   0  13  13   7   7   3
Sothe     01.01  20   5   1   7  11   5   4   0
Astrid    03.64  20   7   2   7   9   4   6   5

Very straightforward chapter. I just sent a bunch of units up north, and then Jill/Marcia northeast to get Makalov. I got the Secret Book but I'd love an extra 4K Gold regardless. Boss kill happened on Turn 3 EP since you can't recruit Makalov by Turn 2 (nobody has enough movement to lure him out in time).

BEXP: 300/307

Chapter 15

Turncount: 2/77

Preparations:

-- Sold Secret Book, forged +5 Mt +25 Hit -3 Wt Steel Sword for Makalov

-- BEXP:

         Level  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res
Soren     14.00  23   2  15  18  14  11   3  15
Astrid    06.01  20   8   2  10  12   6   7   6
Makalov   11.99  30   9   2   7  11   8  10   2

BEXP Remaining: 0

I will not be recruiting Stefan. I don't think he's worth the irritation of a pacifist run.

Units deployed: Ike, Titania, Oscar, Boyd, Soren, Marcia, Mist, Lethe, Mordecai, Volke, Kieran, Sothe, Jill, Astrid

          Level  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res
Ike       14.65  37  14   4  12  15  10  12   5
Mist      02.34  17   1   4   4   7   6   2   7
Boyd      14.90  40  15   0   9  13   7   7   4
Marcia    02.69+ 37  19   7  21  22  12  14  18
Kieran    17.49  34  15   3  12  14   9  12   1
Soren     14.00  23   2  15  18  14  11   3  15
Mordecai  02.01+ 41  22   2  12  11  10  16   7
Oscar     17.19  33  15   2  13  17   6  14   2
Titania   09.39+ 39  17   7  16  18  15  14  12
Jill      15.30  30  17   2  16  14   7  14   2
Volke     10.10  25  12   0  13  13   7   7   3
Sothe     01.01  20   5   1   7  11   5   4   0
Astrid    06.01  20   8   2  10  12   6   7   6
Lethe     03.06+ 34  18   4  14  15  15  14  10

I had Sothe get the Physic staff on Turn 1 by Shoving and Smiting him, then Jill rescued him. Volke got Boots on Turn 2 and Marcia had to critkill the boss on Turn 2 player phase.

BEXP: 1360/1360

Edited August 19, 2011 by Mercenary Raven

[dondon151]

Your levels are looking a little low for this point in the game.

[Lord Raven]

This 1360 BEXP should fix that. I'm planning on getting Ike to 18.00, then getting Kieran to L20 and promoting Oscar. Then putting the rest into Astrid/Makalov/Soren/Tormod/Boyd.

[Kaoz]

I think the levels are fine, mine weren't much different and I had no problems. Astrid's could be a bit higher I guess but that's about it (I had her at 6.46 at the end of chapter 13, but I also took longer, so I dunno).

As for Ike, I would recommend to wait and see how much CEXP you can get him in chapters 15 and 16 and then get him to Lv. 18 for chapter 17, it's not hard to get him 2-3 level there.

[dondon151]

I thought it was common to have an entire army of promoted units by this point in the game.

[Lord Raven]

There's not enough CEXP to do that. You only get ~20 per kill.

chaoskitty: that's a good idea. I'll do precisely that. The thing is that C16 will be spent ferrying him, so I'm not sure if he'll get any CEXP there. C17 he'll be able to, though, but I'll keep 500 reserve just in case. Who should I give Boots to? Marcia sounds like a good candidate... either that or Oscar.

Edited August 19, 2011 by Mercenary Raven

[Florete]

I thought it was common to have an entire army of promoted units by this point in the game.

He's using a big team. A very big team.

[Anouleth]

I prefer a fuzzy definition myself. Going stealth in C10 is efficient from certain perspectives. You get additional rewards.

You get additional rewards for all sorts of things. Boss abuse is rewarding in that you get the reward of infinite experience, yet it's beyond the definition that most people use for efficiency.

[Lord Raven]

Chapter 16

Turncount: 5/82

Preparations:

-- Ike/Soren B, Mist/Jill B, Kieran/Oscar B

-- Tormod gets Spirit Dust

-- Max Mt +15 Hit Steel Axe for Kieran

-- BEXP:

         Level  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res
Tormod    11.00  24   2  15  11  10   9   5  10
Jill      16.00  30  17   2  17  15   7  14   2
Boyd      16.00  40  16   0  10  14   7   8   4
Makalov   14.00  31  11   2   8  13   9  13   2
Kieran    18.00  34  15   3  13  15   9  13   1
Ike       16.00  39  15   4  13  16  12  12   6
Oscar     18.00  34  16   2  14  17   6  14   2
Astrid    12.00  24  11   3  13  16   9   9   8

Remaining: 17

Will only recruit Devdan if convenient (it wasn't)

Deployed: Ike, Boyd, Marcia, Soren, Oscar, Titania, Jill, Tormod, Astrid, Makalov, Volke

         Level  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res
Ike       16.75  39  15   4  13  16  12  12   6
Boyd      16.10  40  16   0  10  14   7   8   4
Marcia    02.84+ 37  19   7  21  22  12  14  18
Soren     15.25  24   2  16  19  14  11   3  16
Oscar     18.85  34  16   2  14  17   6  14   2
Titania   10.18+ 40  18   7  16  18  15  15  12
Jill      16.81  30  17   2  17  15   7  14   2
Tormod    11.86  24   2  15  11  10   9   5  10
Astrid    12.48  24  11   3  13  16   9   9   8
Makalov   14.28  31  11   2   8  13   9  13   2
Volke     10.22  25  12   0  13  13   7   7   3

Simple clear. Titania carries Ike (I equipped her with a Slim Lance so she could survive the Myrmidons) and then carries him her full movement the entire time. She kills the boss on Turn 5 with a Hammer, and then Ike seizes. I manage to ferry Volke to the chests and he gets the Full Guard.

BEXP: 400/417

[aku chi]

I thought it was common to have an entire army of promoted units by this point in the game.

IMO, it's optimal to have everybody promoted before C17-1 (except maybe Tormod). But it's also probably optimal to use 5-8 combat units total, not 11 and counting.

You get additional rewards for all sorts of things. Boss abuse is rewarding in that you get the reward of infinite experience, yet it's beyond the definition that most people use for efficiency.

Boss abuse is not the most efficient way to get Cexp. Going stealth in C10 is one of the most efficient ways to get more Bexp.

[Lord Raven]

Actually, it's not all that optimal. What's optimal is having a second save so you can go back and fix 17-1, but old habits caused me to accidentally save over it so I had to settle for a 3-turn in 17-2 and I won't be able to 1-turn 17-4. But 17-1 was a comfortable 2 turn and 17-3 wasn't even hard regardless of the fact that I didn't have a healer. Also, Ike just barely hit Level 20 in 17-3. Oscar is also Level 20. Promoting Marcia honestly trivializes everyone else, and Titania is also extremely powerful. And promoting Jill will do an even better job at trivializing everyone... just goes to show why Marcia deserves her status over Oscar.

As for Marcia > Jill... I should try this again in Fixed mode (and with a more optimal deployment) and get a stronger argument. I didn't even BEXP abuse and Marcia ended up fucking ridiculous (but she just used an Energy Drop for +2 Str... 21 Str at 20/3).

I don't think I'll end up using Mist. Healing just isn't all that necessary, to be honest, and worst case scenario I'll just heal a lot with Tormod/Soren once they promote.

Edited August 19, 2011 by Mercenary Raven

[Radiant Dragon]

For future reference, WoD shows where each character will be deployed in 17-2 through 17-4.

[Lord Raven]

I'll actually save that stuff to my computer. Thanks.

[Lord Raven]

Chapter 17

Preparations

-- Boots to Marcia. Arms Scroll as well so she can use a Spear.

-- Forged a Max Mt Thunder tome for Tormod

-- Energy Drop used on Marcia so she doesn't have to proc Strength to kill the Halberdier

-- BEXP:

         Level  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res
Ike       18.00  40  16   5  14  17  14  13   7
Oscar     19.00  34  17   2  15  17   6  14   3
Tormod    12.00  24   2  16  12  10  10   5  10
Jill      17.00  30  17   3  17  15   7  15   2
Astrid    13.00  26  12   3  15  17  10  10   9
Makalov   15.00  32  11   2   9  14   9  14   2

Remaining: 117

17-1

Deployed: Ike, Boyd, Marcia, Soren, Oscar, Jill, Tormod, Astrid, Makalov, Mordecai

Turncount: 2/84

Sent Marcia north and she killed the Sniper with a Short Spear, weakened the knights for Jill to kill, and finally Oscar/Boyd/whoever else took out the Myrmidons at the start. Marcia went way north afterwards so she'd attack the northern enemies.

17-2

Reinforced: Muarim, Kieran

Turncount: 3/87

I accidentally saved over my 17-1 save, so I can't redo anything to ensure low turns and whatnot. I may get a 2-turn on 17-4, having that said, but anyways... I basically had to Smite Marcia once and she hit the Arrive Square on turn 3.

17-3

Reinforced: Titania

Turncount: 10/97

Can't say anything here. Oscar and Ike hit level 20 here.

17-4

Reinforced: nobody

Turncount: 1/98

As it just so happens, my formation? *Perfect* formation for a 1-turn strategy of 17-4. So in reality I could've just save one turn. I guess it's karma that Marcia got a zero-stat level up in this chapter, for her otherwise blessed levelups.

BEXP: 700/817

         Level  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res
Ike       01.00+ 44  20   7  18  19  14  17  10
Boyd      19.63  40  17   0  11  16   8   8   6
Marcia    05.29+ 38  21   8  22  23  14  14  19
Soren     16.39  25   2  17  19  15  11   3  16
Oscar     20.15  34  18   2  16  17   6  14   3
Jill      18.52  30  17   3  17  15   7  15   2
Tormod    13.54  25   2  16  12  10  10   6  10
Astrid    16.63  27  13   4  17  18  12  11   9
Makalov   17.18  33  13   2  11  16   9  14   2
Mordecai  02.21+ 41  22   2  12  11  10  16   7
Kieran    18.84  34  15   3  13  15   9  13   1
Muarim    09.00+ 45  23   4  17  18  11  15   8
Titania   10.18+ 40  18   7  16  18  15  15  12

Chapter 18

Turncount: 7/105

Preparations:

-- Forged +5 Mt +25 Hit Javelin for Marcia

-- BEXP (I used a Master Seal on Boyd simply because it wasn't worth 100 BEXP, and I won't end up using Mist anyway):

         Level  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res
Boyd      01.00+ 46  20   1  14  18   8  10   9
Oscar     01.00+ 37  20   4  18  19   6  16   6
Astrid    01.00+ 34  16   7  22  20  12  16  12
Kieran    20.00  35  17   3  14  16  10  15   1
Jill      20.00  31  18   3  18  15   8  16   3
Makalov   18.00  34  14   2  11  17   9  15   2
Soren     17.00  26   2  18  20  15  11   3  17
Tormod    14.23  26   2  16  12  11  11   7  11

Remaining: 0

I'm not recruiting Shinon. Shinon sucks. The only recruitment that was worth the higher turn count at this point was Jill who actually managed to save me a couple turns in Chapter 17 and contributed extremely well to the minimum turn clear of C13.

Units deployed: Ike, Oscar, Boyd, Soren, Marcia, Kieran, Volke, Jill, Astrid, Makalov, Tormod, Reyson, Tanith

I left Boyd behind to deal with the Lance Knight reinforcements on Turn 7 as well as those Wyverns. Generally the strategy consisted of rescuing and dropping the mages and Volke, as well as Marcia rushing ahead to kill the siege tome assholes and get to those Crows in time. If those crows could transform this chapter would be over by Turn 6 (and I'd have a Wrath scroll procured) but they didnt so it was nerve wracking. Thankfully, Astrid w/ Killer Bow ORKO'd one, Ike ORKO'd another, Oscar ORKO'd one more, and then finally Marcia ORKO'd the last one. The rest suicided into Marcia.

Reyson used a laguz stone on Turn 1 so I could rush ahead quicker and let Volke get to the two chests in time. Silence and Wrath. Silence would make nice vendor trash (but I don't need Vendor trash at this point, arguably) whereas Wrath goes straight to Ike for the final boss and Black Knight.

         Level  HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res
Ike       01.71+ 44  20   7  18  19  14  17  10
Oscar     01.93+ 37  20   4  18  19   6  16   6
Boyd      01.85+ 46  20   1  14  18   8  10   9
Soren     17.24  26   2  18  20  15  11   3  17
Marcia    08.60  41  23   9  23  25  15  14  19
Volke     10.22  25  12   0  13  13   7   7   3
Kieran    20.27  35  17   3  14  16  10  15   1
Jill      20.38  31  18   3  18  15   8  16   3
Astrid    01.66+ 34  16   7  22  20  12  16  12
Makalov   18.33  34  14   2  11  17   9  15   2
Tormod    14.74  26   2  16  12  11  11   7  11
Reyson    03.60+ 22   1  15  14  18  15   3  25
Tanith    10.00+ 32  16  10  18  24  18  15  13

BEXP: 300/300

Edited August 20, 2011 by Mercenary Raven

[Anouleth]

Boss abuse is not the most efficient way to get Cexp. Going stealth in C10 is one of the most efficient ways to get more Bexp.

Not really, since you have to spend extra turns and forgo a large amount of CEXP. Getting the Master Seal is probably also easier.

[aku chi]

Not really, since you have to spend extra turns and forgo a large amount of CEXP. Getting the Master Seal is probably also easier.

You are right about the forgone Cexp, but efficiency =/= low turn counts. When doing a stealth run of C10, the turns go by quicker (assuming you've worked out the strategy in advance) and there's no chance involved (as opposed to any combat-required clear that will depend on your attacks hitting and generally depend on avoiding enemy crits and maybe even some regular attacks).

BTW, I believe using the Boots on Reyson allows one to clear C18 one or two turns faster. I'm not sure if giving the Boots to Marcia/Jill (over Reyson) has any turn-saving benefits outside of C17. It might enable a 3-turn clear of C24 or C26 (but maybe those can be done with Boots Reyson and the Rescue staff).

Edited August 20, 2011 by aku chi

[Anouleth]

You are right about the forgone Cexp, but efficiency =/= low turn counts. When doing a stealth run of C10, the turns go by quicker (assuming you've worked out the strategy in advance) and there's no chance involved

Efficiency is not about the smallest amount of physical time, either. Otherwise, players would beat Chapter 13 just by parking Ike on the Arrive Square and not deploying any other characters (which is both the fastest and the most BEXP productive strategy). Would you suggest that in Chapter 17-3, Raven should just turtle in a corner because it's "faster", even if you forgo CEXP? Would you say that it's not worth having characters kill the enemies on the RHS in 17-4 because it's faster to just ignore them and go for Oliver?

(as opposed to any combat-required clear that will depend on your attacks hitting and generally depend on avoiding enemy crits and maybe even some regular attacks).

There are no enemy crits. Please, tell me what enemy in Chapter 10 might land a critical on any character not called Rolf. I don't imagine there's a lot of luck involved in this chapter either.

BTW, I believe using the Boots on Reyson allows one to clear C18 one or two turns faster. I'm not sure if giving the Boots to Marcia/Jill (over Reyson) has any turn-saving benefits outside of C17. It might enable a 3-turn clear of C24 or C26 (but maybe those can be done with Boots Reyson and the Rescue staff).

Well, Reyson can always be rescue-dropped, although even that doesn't completely make up for his lower movement.

[aku chi]

Efficiency is not about the smallest amount of physical time, either. Otherwise, players would beat Chapter 13 just by parking Ike on the Arrive Square and not deploying any other characters (which is both the fastest and the most BEXP productive strategy). Would you suggest that in Chapter 17-3, Raven should just turtle in a corner because it's "faster", even if you forgo CEXP? Would you say that it's not worth having characters kill the enemies on the RHS in 17-4 because it's faster to just ignore them and go for Oliver?

Killing (non-stationary) enemies on any turn except the last decreases future enemy phase actions, so it makes future turns quicker. Chapter 13 could potentially be completed by just parking Ike on the Defend square, but there's actually a chance that you might lose before that happens, there's a chance you'll lose by Ike being killed, you'll forgo recruiting Astrid (and getting the Knight Ward) and re-recruiting Gatrie, forgo all of the treasures (which includes a Speedwings and Energy Drop), and you'll still have to sit through all of the enemy phase movement. Ergo, it's not most efficient.

There are no enemy crits. Please, tell me what enemy in Chapter 10 might land a critical on any character not called Rolf. I don't imagine there's a lot of luck involved in this chapter either.

Fair enough. It's definitely possible for some units to die to C10 reinforcements, especially if you're sending a unit or two east to recruit Brom and Kieran. And in the north, you must be able to ORKO units that block the way to the Escape squares. If you miss, you lose a turn (or worse).

Well, Reyson can always be rescue-dropped, although even that doesn't completely make up for his lower movement.

Reyson can (and should) be rescue/take/dropped regardless of whether or not he has the Boots; C18 is perfectly set up to rescue/take/drop Reyson safely. But Boots Reyson lets 4 9-mov units advance 2 spaces further each turn than regular Reyson. So, after 5 turns (the first involving Reyson using a Laguz Stone), they can be 8 spaces further. Hence, you can complete the chapter 1-2 turns quicker with Boots Reyson.

[Lord Raven]

I rescue dropped Reyson a lot. The chapter can be cleared much quicker if those damn Crows transformed as soon as they came in, it really wasn't relevant to Reyson needing more movement.

Not really, since you have to spend extra turns and forgo a large amount of CEXP. Getting the Master Seal is probably also easier.

I was playing on normal mode and I didn't get more than 700 CEXP in that chapter. I wasn't even playing efficiency either, this was a transfer run. A 3-turn efficiency clear has only 300 BEXP and like at best 300-400 CEXP (500 is possible too). A 9-turn efficiency clear has something in the ballpark of 700 extra BEXP meaning 1010 BEXP total.

I finished C19 in 3 turns with the Knight Ring. I'll post up my thing when I get access to my game again (Sunday).

Chapter 20 seems really straightforward. It's just an Arrive map right? If not then it's just slightly less straightforward, but it's more or less Marcia and Jill killing Shiharam and then someone else (Tanith) arriving. If it's Seize then I'll have Tanith rescue drop Ike.

What does the village give? (The Southern one)

Edited August 20, 2011 by Mercenary Raven

[Kaoz]

Chapter 20 seems really straightforward. It's just an Arrive map right? If not then it's just slightly less straightforward, but it's more or less Marcia and Jill killing Shiharam and then someone else Tanith) arriving. If it's Seize then I'll have Tanith rescue drop Ike.

What does the village give? (The Southern one)

Yes, it's Arrive. I managed a 2 turn last time, which you can find here if you're interested.

I don't remember what the southern house gives you, but you should be able to get it with your third flyer or a Paladin.

[Lord Raven]

It's a Rescue staff, I just checked -- pretty useless. I think I'd want Provoke though, so I'm going to try to kill the Sniper (but I'm not sure where he is -- I have two turns to do it anyway). I'm also planning on getting the Energy Drop and the Brave Sword in C21, but I'm actually not sure how useful any of the treasure outside of the Energy Drop is. I only have one Sword user (well, Makalov too I guess but with the C19 BEXP he'll be promoted to axe user) anyways so I just won't go out of my way to get it. It doesn't help that I used all my chest keys in C13 (the one with Astrid) :(

Edited August 20, 2011 by Mercenary Raven

[aku chi]

It's a Rescue staff, I just checked -- pretty useless.

Uh... The Rescue staff is pretty amazing.

[Radiant Dragon]

Uh... The Rescue staff is pretty amazing.

Seconded. It's the closest thing this game has to a Warp staff.

As for the Chapter 10 Master Seal, I've never had any problems getting it in a Stealth run, so that's a nonfactor. I can understand the arguments comparing Stealth to boss/reinforcement/Arena abusing, but I look at it like this: Giving up a few turns in Chapter 10 to get that extra BEXP gives us a large return. Giving up that same amount of turns in another chapter getting EXP through abuse does not give us anywhere near the same amount of returns.

[Lord Raven]

Uh... The Rescue staff is pretty amazing.

Not for me unless I end up getting enough BEXP to give Mist. I don't think I will, for the record, because I have too many units as is and I need a ton of heal uses to actually be able to use it. There's also Elincia but I can't see how it could possibly save me turns within the next couple chapters that I can't already do by ferrying Ike with an extra mounted unit (ie Tanith, or even Marcia).

[aku chi]

Not for me unless I end up getting enough BEXP to give Mist. I don't think I will, for the record, because I have too many units as is and I need a ton of heal uses to actually be able to use it. There's also Elincia but I can't see how it could possibly save me turns within the next couple chapters that I can't already do by ferrying Ike with an extra mounted unit (ie Tanith, or even Marcia).

Then you need to be more imaginative.

Consider this: in C26 you can send Reyson out further for a turn 1 vigor and then Rescue him back to safety. Or, in C27, you can Rescue Reyson from the middle of the map to the west in C27 to help nab Resolve in 4 turns. And in Engame you can Rescue Giffca so he can attack Ashnard as soon as he appears. These are just a few ideas, but there are probably more. Rescue is definitely best in the hands of Mist (who has higher Mag and can put it to good use in C28), but Elincia can make it worth your while to get.