Itemafia - GAME OVER, TOWN WINS

[eclipse]

Again with the leader explanation thing? Ugh. . .

[Paperblade]

Also

01[13:44] <Paperblade> can you guys hurry up and lynch

01[13:44] <Paperblade> phase ends in like 3 hours

[13:44] <Psych> Proto doesn't want to

[13:45] <Psych> and he's being stupid about it

01[13:45] <Paperblade> =/

01[13:45] <Paperblade> what do you mean

[13:45] <Psych> he doesn't want to random lynch

[13:45] <Psych> when in fact

[13:45] <Psych> that's what we have to do basically

01[13:45] <Paperblade> good thing eclipse isn't a random lynch?

[13:46] <Psych> he's acting like it is

01[13:46] <Paperblade> that's silly

01[13:47] <Paperblade> who is he suggesting instead

[13:47] <Psych> No one at the moment

01[13:47] <Paperblade> that's really stupid

[13:47] <Psych> I suggested Life or Strawman but he didn't say anything about them

01[13:48] <Paperblade> =/

HEY PROTO

WHY DON'T YOU WANT LIFE LYNCHED AFTER HE "LIED" ABOUT TALKING TO YOU

[eclipse]

Paper, why were you talking to people while you were dead?

[Psych]

That was from when he wasn't dead. ;/

[Kriemhild]

[13:47] <Psych> I suggested Life or Strawman but he didn't say anything about them

Because I was SLEEPING

HEY PROTO

WHY DON'T YOU WANT LIFE LYNCHED AFTER HE "LIED" ABOUT TALKING TO YOU

I always wanted Life lynched. He still remains as one of my top suspects and I intend to lynch him tomorrow. Life was actually one of my alternate suggestions to Clipsey! (which really looks like a random choice to me).

[eclipse]

IRC really needs date stamps. That's confusing as hell.

[Deliriyum]

Because I was SLEEPING

I always wanted Life lynched. He still remains as one of my top suspects and I intend to lynch him tomorrow. Life was actually one of my alternate suggestions to Clipsey! (which really looks like a random choice to me).

You said you didn't want Clipsey or Blitz to be lynched.

[Kriemhild]

When did I say it? I have to agree with Clipsey!, timestamps are confusing.

[Deliriyum]

When did I say it? I have to agree with Clipsey!, timestamps are confusing.

btw Kevin's death flavor implied that he had a fake Iron Rune. A doppelganger. And since I still have my own Doppelganger, that means someone else must have dug up another one.

Also, zorbees turning up innocent means we have no leads today. I do NOT want to randomly lynch Clipsey! or Blitz so no. Not to mention, I doubt you can convince the Town to go with it anyway. I'm just going to wait for Kay to get back and hear what she has to say.

[Psych]

Picking off unclears is a bad idea. Yes, right now we are a majority, but if we lynch a Townie and the Mafia shoot one of us, we would lose the advantage. Now, if we could at least present a solid good reason to lynch the first player, then your plan might work (two mislynches would likely kill us still), but otherwise there would be a high chance for the Town to turn against us. And if that happens, we'll all be doomed for sure.

So yeah, we need a really strong reason to lynch someone, one that would seem like a justified lynch to everyone else, even if the target flips Town. So we can't just try to lynch Clipsey! or whoever for no reason. Life would have been the perfect target but with yesterday's events and zorbees being cleared, lynching Life for those same reasons is no longer an option. I don't think LEADING the Town would be feasible at this point, but we should still remain organized so we can coordinate our actions and single out the Mafia. And as for the lynch, we should at least try to make it appear like we're making our own independent decisions, if we get enough dirt on anyone.

[Kriemhild]

Uh, what's your point? I said I didn't want to use Psych to lynch random people. That is what Psych was suggesting and he was the one that specifically mentioned those two people.

[Kriemhild]

Also, in case, spectators don't get what we're referring to

As soon as Paper gets back he needs to hide that spreadsheet.

Rein cleared me apparently, so we need to talk with him. If he's cleared, then that makes us a majority, and we can start picking people off.

Unfortunately, if that means lynching Eclipse or Blitz, we might have to do that. We need to pick off the unclears one by one, so if you want to wait on those two, I guess Life or Strawman is today.

Psych wanted us to start lynching uncleared players one by one. I opposed that because it seemed like a very stupid idea to me. Lynching people randomly, and trying to use Psych to announce it to everyone, seemed like an extremely horrible idea.

[Paperblade]

Uh, what's your point? I said I didn't want to use Psych to lynch random people. That is what Psych was suggesting and he was the one that specifically mentioned those two people.

You mean like the random lynch on zorbees you were pushing yesterday, even though the way the game works (HI RECRUITMENT) logically means that players with reputations for being good players (liek Life and eclipse) are logically and statistically more likely to be scum?

Also: Life isn't a random lynch, Broseidon.

Here are the possible scenarios

1. He lied about you being his source. Why would he do this? If he didn't have prior knowledge of me being a thief, why not just say "I bluffed because SDS and JB don't know how to not interfere in games they're not playing in." Well, he wanted to frame you, you say. Okay, that would imply that Life knew you knew that I was a thief, which would still require you or Kay to have told someone. You deny talking to anyone, probably because you want to distance yourself from Life being scummy for no reason (which seems to be a hobby of his)

2. You lied. Why the fuck would you do that if you were town? First you give someone who is not only unclear, but highly likely to be mafia, sensitive information? And then lie about it? Oh, wait, probably because you're mafia!

Also, since people are so interested in why I think Snike is clear:

On early D1, Snike wanted me to tell him part of the village role PM to prove I was clear. Now, for those of you who don't know, thief and mafia don't get a copy of the village role PM. That's why SDS added that we're not supposed to discuss role PMs, it was supposed to be a rule and he forgot til I was like "Shit SDS halp"

Now, why would Snike be willing to trade parts of the role PM if he was a mafia? That would be very dumb of him.

Speaking of role PMs, let's talk about Proto and Kay's discussion of it before that rule was put into place:

According to Proto, there's something in the villager role PM that Kay found funny and thought Proto would too. However, Proto didn't get the joke, presumably since, you know, he doesn't have a villager PM. However, Proto managed to play this off and went about convincing everyone that Kay is clear, which allowed him to mole because Kay thinks there is nothing wrong with this.

Also, fuck you guys for wanting to lynch people for inactivity. That never has and never will be a reason that someone is scum. Talking doesn't make you town, especially when you spew as much bullshit as Proto and eclipse.

[eclipse]

Oh for crying out loud. . .stop being so mean to me! I'm very much telling the truth when I say that I suck at finding items. Something tells me I'm gonna end up with a stick of dynamite or something, and blow myself up.

[Paperblade]

It's just a game, eclipse ;/

[Paperblade]

Oh hey hey hey

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=27725&view=findpost&p=1668254

Remember this

and how we all thought it was likely he was mafia playing dumb

[Kriemhild]

You mean like the random lynch on zorbees you were pushing yesterday, even though the way the game works (HI RECRUITMENT) logically means that players with reputations for being good players (liek Life and eclipse) are logically and statistically more likely to be scum?

The lynch wasn't purely random. In fact, YOU were the reason why we decided to go with zorbees. I didn't save the logs but I clearly remember you saying something like Life wouldn't recruit anyone but zorbees and that zorbees would recruit no one but you. We didn't have any better options at that time. No Lynch was NOT a better option since the number of mislynches we could have afforded still went down by one, which is really the only downside to lynching an itemless Vanilla.

Also: Life isn't a random lynch, Broseidon.

No, he isn't. What's your point? I was opposing Psych's idea of lynching RANDOM people solely because they're unclear and we held a majority. And I HAVE considered Life for today's lynch (I've told several people this) but well, Reinfleche got lynched instead and turned out to be Mafia!

Here are the possible scenarios

1. He lied about you being his source. Why would he do this? If he didn't have prior knowledge of me being a thief, why not just say "I bluffed because SDS and JB don't know how to not interfere in games they're not playing in." Well, he wanted to frame you, you say. Okay, that would imply that Life knew you knew that I was a thief, which would still require you or Kay to have told someone. You deny talking to anyone, probably because you want to distance yourself from Life being scummy for no reason (which seems to be a hobby of his)

idk if he wanted to frame me or whatever. As I told you earlier, he probably got his source wrong, when he himself admitted that he wasn't paying much attention to the game. Either way, I agree that it's very suspicious and that's the main reason why I want to lynch Life.

2. You lied. Why the fuck would you do that if you were town? First you give someone who is not only unclear, but highly likely to be mafia, sensitive information? And then lie about it? Oh, wait, probably because you're mafia!

I did not lie. You're free to disbelieve that if you want.

Also, since people are so interested in why I think Snike is clear:

On early D1, Snike wanted me to tell him part of the village role PM to prove I was clear. Now, for those of you who don't know, thief and mafia don't get a copy of the village role PM. That's why SDS added that we're not supposed to discuss role PMs, it was supposed to be a rule and he forgot til I was like "Shit SDS halp"

Now, why would Snike be willing to trade parts of the role PM if he was a mafia? That would be very dumb of him.

I have never heard this until you made this post. Now that you explained it, I have to agree that it makes Snike very unlikely to be Mafia.

Speaking of role PMs, let's talk about Proto and Kay's discussion of it before that rule was put into place:

According to Proto, there's something in the villager role PM that Kay found funny and thought Proto would too. However, Proto didn't get the joke, presumably since, you know, he doesn't have a villager PM. However, Proto managed to play this off and went about convincing everyone that Kay is clear, which allowed him to mole because Kay thinks there is nothing wrong with this.

It wasn't something funny. It was something that closely resembled what Kay and I had planned for a future Mafia game. She asked if I noticed anything familiar about the role PM and I said no, because I had no clue what she was talking about at that time. The reason I cleared her at that time was because she said something like "I hope that's an oversight on your part. I wouldn't want us to be on opposite factions". No Mafia member would have said something like that and that is the only reason then why I was so sure that she was Town.

Also, fuck you guys for wanting to lynch people for inactivity. That never has and never will be a reason that someone is scum. Talking doesn't make you town, especially when you spew as much bullshit as Proto and eclipse.

We're not lynching Life for inactivity. We're lynching him because he's too suspicious, with some of the reasons being mentioned earlier in your post I'm quoting. His inactivity only means that we don't lose much if he turns up as Town, which makes this a low-risk lynch, as opposed to lynching someone who is actively contributing and could be a great help to the Town.

[Paperblade]

The lynch wasn't purely random. In fact, YOU were the reason why we decided to go with zorbees. I didn't save the logs but I clearly remember you saying something like Life wouldn't recruit anyone but zorbees and that zorbees would recruit no one but you.

Don't talk in absolutes, because there is always the chance that a person on a scumteam could not convince the rest of his team to recruit who he wants.

Also, keep in mind that you didn't tell me about the "You would recruit zorbees and vice versa so yeah" until AFTER the day phase already ended, and you even tried to cast suspicion on ME when I was perfectly willing to play a shell game with your item trading.

And shit, your logic still didn't make sense (lines bolded for emphasis)

01[01:14] <Paperblade> Now keep in mind

01[01:14] <Paperblade> that Life knows I'm a thief

01[01:14] <Paperblade> and Life would be smart enough to notice this

01[01:14] <Paperblade> because

01[01:14] <Paperblade> if you're mafia

01[01:14] <Paperblade> and someone goes

01[01:14] <Paperblade> "Hey X is special"

01[01:15] <Paperblade> in a game full of vanillas

01[01:15] <Paperblade> what does that say about X

[01:15] <Kitty-Ichimonji> He's a Mafia or a Thief

01[01:15] <Paperblade> yes

01[01:15] <Paperblade> so wouldn't the mafia

[01:15] <Kitty-Ichimonji> If Life is Mafia, he'd know you're a Thief

01[01:15] <Paperblade> be able to figure out

01[01:15] <Paperblade> X is a thief

[01:15] <Kitty-Ichimonji> but of course, he wouldn't admit to being Mafia

[01:15] <Kitty-Ichimonji> so he pinned the blame on someone else

01[01:15] <Paperblade> he blamed SDS and you

[01:16] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Look, Life is already in the suspicious list

01[01:16] <Paperblade> Life is the most suspicious person in the game atm.

[01:17] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Then let's lynch him!

[01:17] <Kitty-Ichimonji> I wanted to lynch zorbees because I thought it would tell us a lot about Life

01[01:17] <Paperblade> =/

[01:18] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Tell me, Paperblade

[01:18] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Why was No Lynch a better option than zorbees?

[01:18] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Don't tell me it's because you thought he was Town

01[01:18] <Paperblade> because I think zorbees is town

[01:19] <Kitty-Ichimonji> because we're going to lose if we cancel every single lynch that is not based on hard evidence

01[01:19] <Paperblade> I have been given no reason to lynch zorbees over Life

01[01:19] <Paperblade> basically

01[01:20] <Paperblade> if we lynch zorbees and he's mafia, Life is *probably* mafia

01[01:20] <Paperblade> if we lynch zorbees and he's town, that doesn't tell us anything about Life

01[01:20] <Paperblade> because Life could still be marked

01[01:20] <Paperblade> if we lynch Life and he's town, zorbees is *probably* town

01[01:20] <Paperblade> if we lynch zorbees and he's mafia, that doesn't tell us anything about Life

01[01:20] <Paperblade> except that Life is more likely to be mafia due to the recruitment system

01[01:21] <Paperblade> meaning that lynching Life is strictly better than lynching zorbees

01[01:21] <Paperblade> imo

01[01:21] <Paperblade> er

01[01:21] <Paperblade> wait a second

01[01:22] <Paperblade> if we lynch LIFE and he's mafia, that doesn't tell us anything about zorbees

01[01:22] <Paperblade> herp derp

[01:22] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Two things

[01:22] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Let's start with the minor one first

[01:22] <Kitty-Ichimonji> We thought that only an idiot would actually recruit Life

[01:22] <Kitty-Ichimonji> after the disaster of Ivalice where he just abandoned us when he could have easily won

[01:23] <Kitty-Ichimonji> and we all know that he hates working with us idiots

01[01:23] <Paperblade> that depends on who is scum

[01:23] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Indeed

[01:23] <Kitty-Ichimonji> YOU may have recruited him, but I would never

01[01:23] <Paperblade> Life would be happy to work with eclipse

[01:23] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Now, for the main reason

01[01:23] <Paperblade> Life isn't in my top 3

[01:23] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Life may be happy to work with Clipsey!

[01:24] <Kitty-Ichimonji> But I don't think Clipsey! would be happy to work with Life

01[01:24] <Paperblade> maybe

[01:24] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Okay, you wanna know the main reason why we lynched zorbees?

01[01:24] <Paperblade> why

[01:24] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Because it isn't just zorbees and Life

[01:24] <Kitty-Ichimonji> There is a third person we're interested in

01[01:24] <Paperblade> and who would that be

[01:25] <Kitty-Ichimonji> One with "mole" as his middle name

01[01:25] <Paperblade> ;/

[01:25] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Let's face it, you haven't really given us any solid reason to trust that you're not Mafia

01[01:25] <Paperblade> You realize the only time I successfully moled anything was a multifaction game in which my role's sole purpose was to mole, right

[01:25] <Kitty-Ichimonji> I don't think you are, but it's worthing looking into nonetheless

[01:25] <Kitty-Ichimonji> *worth

[01:26] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Yeah, well, Joshaymin and Kay will never forget it

01[01:26] <Paperblade> ;/

[01:26] <Kitty-Ichimonji> We intended to lynch zorbees

[01:26] <Kitty-Ichimonji> And then plan our next move based on the result

[01:26] <Kitty-Ichimonji> If he was Mafia, we would have investigated you

[01:26] <Kitty-Ichimonji> because you're the most likely person he would recruit

[01:27] <Kitty-Ichimonji> and you are one of the only two people that would recruit him

01[01:27] <Paperblade> right

[01:27] <Kitty-Ichimonji> If he was Town, we'd investigate either you or Life

01[01:28] <Paperblade> =/

[01:28] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Well, it doesn't matter now

[01:29] <Kitty-Ichimonji> because, thanks to a few idiots that preferred to No Lynch

[01:29] <Kitty-Ichimonji> we are now forced to investigate zorbees himself

[01:29] <Kitty-Ichimonji> You still think a No Lynch was the best result?

01[01:29] <Paperblade> Why

01[01:29] <Paperblade> couldn't you have just posted this

01[01:29] <Paperblade> in the fucking thread

01[01:29] <Paperblade> that doesn't reveal any info

01[01:29] <Paperblade> that isn't already public

[01:29] <Kitty-Ichimonji> ...

[01:29] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Are you asking us

[01:29] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Why we did not expose you as a thief?

01[01:29] <Paperblade> That isn't necessary

01[01:29] <Paperblade> You can say

[01:30] <Kitty-Ichimonji> or are we just gonna be like "PAPER MIGHT BE SCUM SO WE WANNA LYNCH ZORBEES"

01[01:30] <Paperblade> "We are lynching zorbees. If zorbees is mafia, that means Paperblade or Life are mafia."

[01:30] <Kitty-Ichimonji> I understand that we handled the Town leadership poorly

[01:30] <Kitty-Ichimonji> We didn't do it right

01[01:30] <Paperblade> but instead you go

[01:30] <Kitty-Ichimonji> at all

01[01:30] <Paperblade> "We're lynching zorbees, DEAL WITH IT"

01[01:30] <Paperblade> and they're like

01[01:30] <Paperblade> "Who the fuck died and made you clear"

01[01:30] <Paperblade> "No lynch!"

[01:30] <Kitty-Ichimonji> but what does that have to do with anything?

01[01:31] <Paperblade> What do you mean

01[01:31] <Paperblade> If people don't trust you and your arguments are illogical

01[01:31] <Paperblade> they won't listen to you

01[01:31] <Paperblade> I suggested you provide a logical argument instead

[01:31] <Kitty-Ichimonji> OKAY I MESSED UP ON DAY 2 I GET IT

01[01:32] <Paperblade> =/

[01:32] <Kitty-Ichimonji> This is the first I've ever come close to leading a Town

[01:32] <Kitty-Ichimonji> My two-year record was filled with NOCs btw

[01:32] <Kitty-Ichimonji> I am NOT an OC veteran in any shape or form

[01:32] <Kitty-Ichimonji> I can't do this right

[01:33] <Kitty-Ichimonji> but I don't understand why that would lead you to stop trusting us

01[01:33] <Paperblade> =/

[01:33] <Kitty-Ichimonji> The Town just No Lynched

[01:33] <Kitty-Ichimonji> and I wanna know why

01[01:33] <Paperblade> I told you why

01[01:33] <Paperblade> they don't trust you

[01:33] <Kitty-Ichimonji> So?

[01:33] <Kitty-Ichimonji> That doesn't mean No Lynch is a better idea

01[01:33] <Paperblade> what do you mean why

01[01:33] <Paperblade> yes it does

[01:33] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Weren't you the one who said No Lynch on Day ONE is a stupid idea?

01[01:33] <Paperblade> no lynch is acceptable in OC

01[01:33] <Paperblade> OC and NOC are different

[01:34] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Okay, then

01[01:34] <Paperblade> that's why Life thinks SF is dumb

01[01:34] <Paperblade> because they try to play OC like NOC

01[01:34] <Paperblade> which tends to not work

01[01:35] <Paperblade> I have contributed approximately 0 in the thread

[01:35] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Yeah, I get it

01[01:35] <Paperblade> I'm pretty sure my Day 2 posted consisted of

01[01:35] <Paperblade> posting Billy Joel lyrics

01[01:35] <Paperblade> No lynch vote

01[01:35] <Paperblade> calling town leader an idiot

01[01:36] <Paperblade> not a very productive user am I ;/

[01:36] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Yeah, okay

As for the bolded bit in the quote above, that is a bald faced lie. Life and I discussed in-depth who we would recruit if were mafia, and I gave both you and Kay that log in which Life expressed great interest in eclipse, Kay, and myself in addition to zorbees as far as players that are alive in playing Itemafia go.

Remember this?

[22:55] <Life> Me... I think that not recruiting me would be a mistake if someone other than eclipse, you or Kay is recruited

01[22:56] <Paperblade> woah, lag

01[22:56] <Paperblade> What about Kaoz?

[22:56] <Life> As in, I really think that I should be recruited because I'm that good (not trying to brag, being honest)

[22:56] <Life> Kaoz is... eh

[22:56] <Life> No idea

[22:56] <Life> Honestly, I'd go with zorbees/Kay/eclipse/you

01[22:56] <Paperblade> yeah

[22:56] <Life> That's my choices

Oh, and the end of the conversation, which I fucking bolded in the PM?

[23:02] <Life> Personally, I'd rather take eclips

[23:02] <Life> If I were mafia

[23:02] <Life> 2 reasons

01[23:02] <Paperblade> everyone fucking trusts eclipse

[23:02] <Life> 1. I KNOW she's smart

[23:02] <Life> 2. I've never played with her before

01[23:02] <Paperblade> that too

[23:02] <Life> On the same faction

We didn't have any better options at that time. No Lynch was NOT a better option since the number of mislynches we could have afforded still went down by one, which is really the only downside to lynching an itemless Vanilla.

You mean an itemless vanilla like eclipse?

I told you thousands and thousands of times that Life and eclipse were both better options. It even lead to me finding out you lied to Core about Kay's inspect because I thought it was so dumb that I complained to him about it.

Hey, remember this?

Session Time: Sun Aug 28 00:00:00 2011

03[00:16] * Sir_Kay (Mibbit@263-95-815-96.dsl1.chtw.wv.frontiernet.net) has joined #SForestMafia

03[00:28] * Kitty-Ichimonji (Mibbit@180.234.vs.ztl) has joined #SForestMafia

01[00:28] <@Paperblade> Okay, let's just talk in here.

01[00:28] <@Paperblade> Proto

[00:29] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Yes, Paper?

01[00:29] <@Paperblade> why is Life saying you told him I'm a thief

[00:29] <Sir_Kay> Paper tells me that Life told him that you told Life that Paper is a thief.

[00:29] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Wha?

[00:29] <Kitty-Ichimonji> I didn't tell Life ANYTHING

[00:29] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Never spoke to him at all in this game

[00:30] <Sir_Kay> I told you so.

Hey, I told you Life was acting funny on August 28, 3 days before phase end... Clearly, not suspicious at all.

Session Start: Wed Aug 31 17:30:58 2011

Session Ident: Kitty-Ichimonji

01[17:36] <Paperblade> yo

[17:43] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Hi Paper

01[17:43] <Paperblade> So

01[17:43] <Paperblade> why is zorbees such a big target

[17:44] <Kitty-Ichimonji> He isn't

[17:44] <Kitty-Ichimonji> but he's a little bigger than everyone else

[17:44] <Kitty-Ichimonji> while Clan No Lynch's failure in Ivalice makes them the worst target

01[17:44] <Paperblade> There's still people like

01[17:44] <Paperblade> eclipse and Life

01[17:44] <Paperblade> unless they are somehow cleared and I'm not aware of this

[17:45] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Logic for lynching Life is pretty much the same as zorbees

01[17:45] <Paperblade> except Life is statistically much more likely to be mafia

01[17:45] <Paperblade> due to recruitment

[17:45] <Kitty-Ichimonji> How so?

[17:45] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Why?

01[17:45] <Paperblade> Life is known to be a good player at SF

[17:45] <Kitty-Ichimonji> But he gave up on SF Mafia

01[17:45] <Paperblade> and almost everyone listed him as a high mark target

01[17:45] <Paperblade> So?

01[17:46] <Paperblade> zorbees has never played at SF before

01[17:46] <Paperblade> the only people that know he's good

01[17:46] <Paperblade> are me and Life

[17:46] <Kitty-Ichimonji> which is why zorbees is connected to Life

01[17:46] <Paperblade> -_-

01[17:46] <Paperblade> you don't understand

01[17:46] <Paperblade> that Life could be recruited OR original mafia

01[17:46] <Paperblade> but zorbees most likely was not recruited

01[17:46] <Paperblade> meaning if he's mafia

01[17:46] <Paperblade> he was original mafia

01[17:47] <Paperblade> but if he was original mafia

01[17:47] <Paperblade> why was I not recruited?

[17:47] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Life would have recruited him

01[17:47] <Paperblade> which means if zorbees is mafia

01[17:47] <Paperblade> Life is mafia

01[17:47] <Paperblade> but if Life is mafia

01[17:47] <Paperblade> zorbees is not necessarily mafia

01[17:47] <Paperblade> this is basic logic

[17:48] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Yup

01[17:48] <Paperblade> ESPECIALLY

[17:48] <Kitty-Ichimonji> which is why we're lynching zorbees and not Life

01[17:48] <Paperblade> since Life knew information he had no business knowing

01[17:48] <Paperblade> ...

01[17:48] <Paperblade> that is fucking stupid

01[17:48] <Paperblade> no offense

[17:48] <Kitty-Ichimonji> I know, right?

[17:48] <Kitty-Ichimonji> It's either zorbees or SEG

01[17:48] <Paperblade> Why

01[17:48] <Paperblade> not Life

[17:48] <Kitty-Ichimonji> and I don't think we'll learn anything from SEG dying

[17:49] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Life had equal lynch priority with zorbees

01[17:49] <Paperblade> ...

[17:49] <Kitty-Ichimonji> UNTIL zorbees had to reveal his items

[17:49] <Kitty-Ichimonji> No zorbees put himself a little higher

01[17:49] <Paperblade> that

01[17:49] <Paperblade> doesn't make sense

>Life is scummier, so we're lynching zorbees because our insistence on lynching zorbees caused zorbees to post his items for everyone to see

I bitched at you the entire day phase that zorbees was a stupid lynch and the whole time you insisted insisted insisted that noooooo-he's-the-best-we've-got.

No, he isn't. What's your point? I was opposing Psych's idea of lynching RANDOM people solely because they're unclear and we held a majority. And I HAVE considered Life for today's lynch (I've told several people this) but well, Reinfleche got lynched instead and turned out to be Mafia!

Both Psych and Core have told me you were adamantly against a Life/eclipse lynch but are unwilling to put up a scummier target.

Also

>We should randomly lynch zorbees for information

>we shouldn't randomly lynch Life or eclipse for information

>buddybuddybuddybuddy

idk if he wanted to frame me or whatever. As I told you earlier, he probably got his source wrong, when he himself admitted that he wasn't paying much attention to the game. Either way, I agree that it's very suspicious and that's the main reason why I want to lynch Life.

How could he have gotten his source wrong when his only possible sources are you and Kay, when you are 100% convinced Kay is town?

It wasn't something funny. It was something that closely resembled what Kay and I had planned for a future Mafia game. She asked if I noticed anything familiar about the role PM and I said no, because I had no clue what she was talking about at that time. The reason I cleared her at that time was because she said something like "I hope that's an oversight on your part. I wouldn't want us to be on opposite factions". No Mafia member would have said something like that and that is the only reason then why I was so sure that she was Town.

Semantics, but okay. Again: you didn't know what she was talking about, and you admit that you are in no way clear.

We're not lynching Life for inactivity. We're lynching him because he's too suspicious, with some of the reasons being mentioned earlier in your post I'm quoting. His inactivity only means that we don't lose much if he turns up as Town, which makes this a low-risk lynch, as opposed to lynching someone who is actively contributing and could be a great help to the Town.

Yes, upstanding, talkative townies like Unicycle eclipse/Obviam and dirty inactive scum like... god, there's too many to count. How about Kay's Bullshit Mafia team? You remember that, right, Kay? Where the only real LDRM that were active was... you?

"But that's different! It was multifaction!"

Really?

A 6 player mafia game in which there are 5 townies and a single mafia? You honestly don't see the parallel here? That's how I thought of it the entire game. Obviously there are minor differences due to the fact that there were 19 other players and such, but really now.

01[13:52] <Paperblade> why is WoMC under suspicion

[13:52] <Psych> I don't know

[13:52] <Psych> probably because he's been quiet

Also, cool fax: Weapons will talk if you harass him enough. As it turns out, maybe you should try talking to people before running the lynch train on them?

Session Start: Wed Aug 31 18:49:11 2011

Session Ident: Weapons

01[18:49] <Paperblade> Weapons

01[18:49] <Paperblade> Master of Construction

01[18:49] <Paperblade> Weapons of Mass Funstruction

01[18:49] <Paperblade> speak tome

[18:51] <Weapons> hello paperblade

01[18:52] <Paperblade> what do you think of itemafia

[18:52] <Weapons> not much

[18:52] <Weapons> actually

01[18:52] <Paperblade> i

01[18:52] <Paperblade> *ic

[18:52] <Weapons> i haven't been very up to date

01[18:52] <Paperblade> how are your items

01[18:52] <Paperblade> ah

[18:53] <Weapons> my items are more than they appear

[18:53] <Weapons> apparently

01[18:53] <Paperblade> ic

[18:53] <Weapons> numerical wise

[18:53] <Weapons> i'm not sure what they do

01[18:53] <Paperblade> ah

01[18:53] <Paperblade> you mean

01[18:53] <Paperblade> they're worth more to thieves?

[18:53] <Weapons> possibly

01[18:54] <Paperblade> ic

I remember Kay said something about Proto was talking so much he'd had to have slipped up by now.

Is this enough slip ups for you?

[Kriemhild]

Don't talk in absolutes, because there is always the chance that a person on a scumteam could not convince the rest of his team to recruit who he wants.

We can never be absolutely sure about anything.

Also, keep in mind that you didn't tell me about the "You would recruit zorbees and vice versa so yeah" until AFTER the day phase already ended, and you even tried to cast suspicion on ME when I was perfectly willing to play a shell game with your item trading.

You recruiting zorbees? I never actually thought you would have done that.

And shit, your logic still didn't make sense (lines bolded for emphasis)

01[01:14] <Paperblade> Now keep in mind

01[01:14] <Paperblade> that Life knows I'm a thief

01[01:14] <Paperblade> and Life would be smart enough to notice this

01[01:14] <Paperblade> because

01[01:14] <Paperblade> if you're mafia

01[01:14] <Paperblade> and someone goes

01[01:14] <Paperblade> "Hey X is special"

01[01:15] <Paperblade> in a game full of vanillas

01[01:15] <Paperblade> what does that say about X

[01:15] <Kitty-Ichimonji> He's a Mafia or a Thief

01[01:15] <Paperblade> yes

01[01:15] <Paperblade> so wouldn't the mafia

[01:15] <Kitty-Ichimonji> If Life is Mafia, he'd know you're a Thief

01[01:15] <Paperblade> be able to figure out

01[01:15] <Paperblade> X is a thief

[01:15] <Kitty-Ichimonji> but of course, he wouldn't admit to being Mafia

[01:15] <Kitty-Ichimonji> so he pinned the blame on someone else

01[01:15] <Paperblade> he blamed SDS and you

[01:16] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Look, Life is already in the suspicious list

01[01:16] <Paperblade> Life is the most suspicious person in the game atm.

[01:17] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Then let's lynch him!

[01:17] <Kitty-Ichimonji> I wanted to lynch zorbees because I thought it would tell us a lot about Life

01[01:17] <Paperblade> =/

[01:18] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Tell me, Paperblade

[01:18] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Why was No Lynch a better option than zorbees?

[01:18] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Don't tell me it's because you thought he was Town

01[01:18] <Paperblade> because I think zorbees is town

[01:19] <Kitty-Ichimonji> because we're going to lose if we cancel every single lynch that is not based on hard evidence

01[01:19] <Paperblade> I have been given no reason to lynch zorbees over Life

01[01:19] <Paperblade> basically

01[01:20] <Paperblade> if we lynch zorbees and he's mafia, Life is *probably* mafia

01[01:20] <Paperblade> if we lynch zorbees and he's town, that doesn't tell us anything about Life

01[01:20] <Paperblade> because Life could still be marked

01[01:20] <Paperblade> if we lynch Life and he's town, zorbees is *probably* town

01[01:20] <Paperblade> if we lynch zorbees and he's mafia, that doesn't tell us anything about Life

01[01:20] <Paperblade> except that Life is more likely to be mafia due to the recruitment system

01[01:21] <Paperblade> meaning that lynching Life is strictly better than lynching zorbees

01[01:21] <Paperblade> imo

01[01:21] <Paperblade> er

01[01:21] <Paperblade> wait a second

01[01:22] <Paperblade> if we lynch LIFE and he's mafia, that doesn't tell us anything about zorbees

01[01:22] <Paperblade> herp derp

[01:22] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Two things

[01:22] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Let's start with the minor one first

[01:22] <Kitty-Ichimonji> We thought that only an idiot would actually recruit Life

[01:22] <Kitty-Ichimonji> after the disaster of Ivalice where he just abandoned us when he could have easily won

[01:23] <Kitty-Ichimonji> and we all know that he hates working with us idiots

01[01:23] <Paperblade> that depends on who is scum

[01:23] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Indeed

[01:23] <Kitty-Ichimonji> YOU may have recruited him, but I would never

01[01:23] <Paperblade> Life would be happy to work with eclipse

[01:23] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Now, for the main reason

01[01:23] <Paperblade> Life isn't in my top 3

[01:23] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Life may be happy to work with Clipsey!

[01:24] <Kitty-Ichimonji> But I don't think Clipsey! would be happy to work with Life

01[01:24] <Paperblade> maybe

[01:24] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Okay, you wanna know the main reason why we lynched zorbees?

01[01:24] <Paperblade> why

[01:24] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Because it isn't just zorbees and Life

[01:24] <Kitty-Ichimonji> There is a third person we're interested in

01[01:24] <Paperblade> and who would that be

[01:25] <Kitty-Ichimonji> One with "mole" as his middle name

01[01:25] <Paperblade> ;/

[01:25] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Let's face it, you haven't really given us any solid reason to trust that you're not Mafia

01[01:25] <Paperblade> You realize the only time I successfully moled anything was a multifaction game in which my role's sole purpose was to mole, right

[01:25] <Kitty-Ichimonji> I don't think you are, but it's worthing looking into nonetheless

[01:25] <Kitty-Ichimonji> *worth

[01:26] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Yeah, well, Joshaymin and Kay will never forget it

01[01:26] <Paperblade> ;/

[01:26] <Kitty-Ichimonji> We intended to lynch zorbees

[01:26] <Kitty-Ichimonji> And then plan our next move based on the result

[01:26] <Kitty-Ichimonji> If he was Mafia, we would have investigated you

[01:26] <Kitty-Ichimonji> because you're the most likely person he would recruit

[01:27] <Kitty-Ichimonji> and you are one of the only two people that would recruit him

01[01:27] <Paperblade> right

[01:27] <Kitty-Ichimonji> If he was Town, we'd investigate either you or Life

01[01:28] <Paperblade> =/

[01:28] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Well, it doesn't matter now

[01:29] <Kitty-Ichimonji> because, thanks to a few idiots that preferred to No Lynch

[01:29] <Kitty-Ichimonji> we are now forced to investigate zorbees himself

[01:29] <Kitty-Ichimonji> You still think a No Lynch was the best result?

01[01:29] <Paperblade> Why

01[01:29] <Paperblade> couldn't you have just posted this

01[01:29] <Paperblade> in the fucking thread

01[01:29] <Paperblade> that doesn't reveal any info

01[01:29] <Paperblade> that isn't already public

[01:29] <Kitty-Ichimonji> ...

[01:29] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Are you asking us

[01:29] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Why we did not expose you as a thief?

01[01:29] <Paperblade> That isn't necessary

01[01:29] <Paperblade> You can say

[01:30] <Kitty-Ichimonji> or are we just gonna be like "PAPER MIGHT BE SCUM SO WE WANNA LYNCH ZORBEES"

01[01:30] <Paperblade> "We are lynching zorbees. If zorbees is mafia, that means Paperblade or Life are mafia."

[01:30] <Kitty-Ichimonji> I understand that we handled the Town leadership poorly

[01:30] <Kitty-Ichimonji> We didn't do it right

01[01:30] <Paperblade> but instead you go

[01:30] <Kitty-Ichimonji> at all

01[01:30] <Paperblade> "We're lynching zorbees, DEAL WITH IT"

01[01:30] <Paperblade> and they're like

01[01:30] <Paperblade> "Who the fuck died and made you clear"

01[01:30] <Paperblade> "No lynch!"

[01:30] <Kitty-Ichimonji> but what does that have to do with anything?

01[01:31] <Paperblade> What do you mean

01[01:31] <Paperblade> If people don't trust you and your arguments are illogical

01[01:31] <Paperblade> they won't listen to you

01[01:31] <Paperblade> I suggested you provide a logical argument instead

[01:31] <Kitty-Ichimonji> OKAY I MESSED UP ON DAY 2 I GET IT

01[01:32] <Paperblade> =/

[01:32] <Kitty-Ichimonji> This is the first I've ever come close to leading a Town

[01:32] <Kitty-Ichimonji> My two-year record was filled with NOCs btw

[01:32] <Kitty-Ichimonji> I am NOT an OC veteran in any shape or form

[01:32] <Kitty-Ichimonji> I can't do this right

[01:33] <Kitty-Ichimonji> but I don't understand why that would lead you to stop trusting us

01[01:33] <Paperblade> =/

[01:33] <Kitty-Ichimonji> The Town just No Lynched

[01:33] <Kitty-Ichimonji> and I wanna know why

01[01:33] <Paperblade> I told you why

01[01:33] <Paperblade> they don't trust you

[01:33] <Kitty-Ichimonji> So?

[01:33] <Kitty-Ichimonji> That doesn't mean No Lynch is a better idea

01[01:33] <Paperblade> what do you mean why

01[01:33] <Paperblade> yes it does

[01:33] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Weren't you the one who said No Lynch on Day ONE is a stupid idea?

01[01:33] <Paperblade> no lynch is acceptable in OC

01[01:33] <Paperblade> OC and NOC are different

[01:34] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Okay, then

01[01:34] <Paperblade> that's why Life thinks SF is dumb

01[01:34] <Paperblade> because they try to play OC like NOC

01[01:34] <Paperblade> which tends to not work

01[01:35] <Paperblade> I have contributed approximately 0 in the thread

[01:35] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Yeah, I get it

01[01:35] <Paperblade> I'm pretty sure my Day 2 posted consisted of

01[01:35] <Paperblade> posting Billy Joel lyrics

01[01:35] <Paperblade> No lynch vote

01[01:35] <Paperblade> calling town leader an idiot

01[01:36] <Paperblade> not a very productive user am I ;/

[01:36] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Yeah, okay

As for the bolded bit in the quote above, that is a bald faced lie. Life and I discussed in-depth who we would recruit if were mafia, and I gave both you and Kay that log in which Life expressed great interest in eclipse, Kay, and myself in addition to zorbees as far as players that are alive in playing Itemafia go.

lolwut? I was talking about zorbees, not you or Life. If he was Mafia, he was either RNG'd as one, or chosen as the recruit. If he was chosen as a recruit, it would most likely be from you or Life. If he was Mafia, he would have likely recruited your or Life (I now know he won't recruit Life but w/e). Yeah, I understand that you and Life could have picked other people, but we wanted to check zorbees's alignment first, not yours. You yourself said that a Mafia zorbees would be capable of convincing his buddies to recruit his preferred target. I also remember you saying that it is VERY likely for zorbees and Life to be of the same alignment. I even remember telling you that zorbees's connections would make him quite an informative lynch and you did not deny that he was the best target. Paper, you need to read the logs that occured DURING Day 2, not after.

Remember this?

[22:55] <Life> Me... I think that not recruiting me would be a mistake if someone other than eclipse, you or Kay is recruited

01[22:56] <Paperblade> woah, lag

01[22:56] <Paperblade> What about Kaoz?

[22:56] <Life> As in, I really think that I should be recruited because I'm that good (not trying to brag, being honest)

[22:56] <Life> Kaoz is... eh

[22:56] <Life> No idea

[22:56] <Life> Honestly, I'd go with zorbees/Kay/eclipse/you

01[22:56] <Paperblade> yeah

[22:56] <Life> That's my choices

Oh, and the end of the conversation, which I fucking bolded in the PM?

[23:02] <Life> Personally, I'd rather take eclips

[23:02] <Life> If I were mafia

[23:02] <Life> 2 reasons

01[23:02] <Paperblade> everyone fucking trusts eclipse

[23:02] <Life> 1. I KNOW she's smart

[23:02] <Life> 2. I've never played with her before

01[23:02] <Paperblade> that too

[23:02] <Life> On the same faction

Why are you acting like Day 2 was centered all around Life? We weren't going to lynch Life and then try guessing other people's alignments based on these logs. We wanted to lynch zorbees at that time, not Life. Right now, my suspicion on Life has absolutely nothing to do with the recruitment.

You mean an itemless vanilla like eclipse?

What...?

I told you thousands and thousands of times that Life and eclipse were both better options. It even lead to me finding out you lied to Core about Kay's inspect because I thought it was so dumb that I complained to him about it.

I never lied in any Mafia game. I want to see logs or PM quotes as evidence for that. If you can't manage that much, can you at least tell me what my lie was?

Hey, remember this?

Session Time: Sun Aug 28 00:00:00 2011

03[00:16] * Sir_Kay (Mibbit@263-95-815-96.dsl1.chtw.wv.frontiernet.net) has joined #SForestMafia

03[00:28] * Kitty-Ichimonji (Mibbit@180.234.vs.ztl) has joined #SForestMafia

01[00:28] <@Paperblade> Okay, let's just talk in here.

01[00:28] <@Paperblade> Proto

[00:29] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Yes, Paper?

01[00:29] <@Paperblade> why is Life saying you told him I'm a thief

[00:29] <Sir_Kay> Paper tells me that Life told him that you told Life that Paper is a thief.

[00:29] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Wha?

[00:29] <Kitty-Ichimonji> I didn't tell Life ANYTHING

[00:29] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Never spoke to him at all in this game

[00:30] <Sir_Kay> I told you so.

Hey, I told you Life was acting funny on August 28, 3 days before phase end... Clearly, not suspicious at all.

At that time, I believe you said something about host interference. Not to mention, Life admitted that he wasn't taking the game seriously, so I wasn't surprised that he'd make this kind of mistake.

Session Start: Wed Aug 31 17:30:58 2011

Session Ident: Kitty-Ichimonji

01[17:36] <Paperblade> yo

[17:43] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Hi Paper

01[17:43] <Paperblade> So

01[17:43] <Paperblade> why is zorbees such a big target

[17:44] <Kitty-Ichimonji> He isn't

[17:44] <Kitty-Ichimonji> but he's a little bigger than everyone else

[17:44] <Kitty-Ichimonji> while Clan No Lynch's failure in Ivalice makes them the worst target

01[17:44] <Paperblade> There's still people like

01[17:44] <Paperblade> eclipse and Life

01[17:44] <Paperblade> unless they are somehow cleared and I'm not aware of this

[17:45] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Logic for lynching Life is pretty much the same as zorbees

01[17:45] <Paperblade> except Life is statistically much more likely to be mafia

01[17:45] <Paperblade> due to recruitment

[17:45] <Kitty-Ichimonji> How so?

[17:45] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Why?

01[17:45] <Paperblade> Life is known to be a good player at SF

[17:45] <Kitty-Ichimonji> But he gave up on SF Mafia

01[17:45] <Paperblade> and almost everyone listed him as a high mark target

01[17:45] <Paperblade> So?

01[17:46] <Paperblade> zorbees has never played at SF before

01[17:46] <Paperblade> the only people that know he's good

01[17:46] <Paperblade> are me and Life

[17:46] <Kitty-Ichimonji> which is why zorbees is connected to Life

01[17:46] <Paperblade> -_-

01[17:46] <Paperblade> you don't understand

01[17:46] <Paperblade> that Life could be recruited OR original mafia

01[17:46] <Paperblade> but zorbees most likely was not recruited

01[17:46] <Paperblade> meaning if he's mafia

01[17:46] <Paperblade> he was original mafia

01[17:47] <Paperblade> but if he was original mafia

01[17:47] <Paperblade> why was I not recruited?

[17:47] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Life would have recruited him

01[17:47] <Paperblade> which means if zorbees is mafia

01[17:47] <Paperblade> Life is mafia

01[17:47] <Paperblade> but if Life is mafia

01[17:47] <Paperblade> zorbees is not necessarily mafia

01[17:47] <Paperblade> this is basic logic

[17:48] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Yup

01[17:48] <Paperblade> ESPECIALLY

[17:48] <Kitty-Ichimonji> which is why we're lynching zorbees and not Life

01[17:48] <Paperblade> since Life knew information he had no business knowing

01[17:48] <Paperblade> ...

01[17:48] <Paperblade> that is fucking stupid

01[17:48] <Paperblade> no offense

[17:48] <Kitty-Ichimonji> I know, right?

[17:48] <Kitty-Ichimonji> It's either zorbees or SEG

01[17:48] <Paperblade> Why

01[17:48] <Paperblade> not Life

[17:48] <Kitty-Ichimonji> and I don't think we'll learn anything from SEG dying

[17:49] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Life had equal lynch priority with zorbees

01[17:49] <Paperblade> ...

[17:49] <Kitty-Ichimonji> UNTIL zorbees had to reveal his items

[17:49] <Kitty-Ichimonji> No zorbees put himself a little higher

01[17:49] <Paperblade> that

01[17:49] <Paperblade> doesn't make sense

>Life is scummier, so we're lynching zorbees because our insistence on lynching zorbees caused zorbees to post his items for everyone to see

Lynching Life wouldn't have told us anything. Lynching zorbees, by YOUR own logic, would allow us to make good guesses on Life's faction. And though I didn't tell you on D2, it would have made YOUR alignment a little clearer. We intended to investigate either Life or you that night, but well, as I stated above, knowing zorbees's alignment had higher priority. And yes, at the beginning of the Day, lynching Life or zorbees and investigating the other would have had identical results, but we only became adamant about zorbees after he posted his items.

I bitched at you the entire day phase that zorbees was a stupid lynch and the whole time you insisted insisted insisted that noooooo-he's-the-best-we've-got.

Entire day? I think you mean, for the rest of the day after he posted his items. I don't see how killing Life, investigating zorbees is very different from killing zorbees, investigating Life. Aside from the fact that the survivor gets to keep his items if he flips Town. Oh, wait, zorbees doesn't have any...

There was also you, and I did not want you to know on Day 2 that we suspected you as being Mafia.

Both Psych and Core have told me you were adamantly against a Life/eclipse lynch but are unwilling to put up a scummier target.

Also

>We should randomly lynch zorbees for information

>we shouldn't randomly lynch Life or eclipse for information

>buddybuddybuddybuddy

I was adamantly against a RANDOM lynch. How do you think it would look like if Psych goes like, "Alright, the Town Leader has decided to lynch Life/Clipsey! because half of the players are confirmed Town and we can now start lynching random unclear people until we win"? Not only is that logic invalid, but it's the stupidest thing I heard in this game. Do you actually think I'm idiotic enough to go with this? Or do you need me to add you to the PM to show you that there were actually proposing a RANDOM lynch and not a scumhunting one?

How could he have gotten his source wrong when his only possible sources are you and Kay, when you are 100% convinced Kay is town?

We don't even know if Life actually had a source confirming that you were a thief. He could have baited you and you fell for it. And then chosen a random source.

Semantics, but okay. Again: you didn't know what she was talking about, and you admit that you are in no way clear.

Yes, I admit I am not clear. And neither are a lot of people. Or ANYONE actually, since the investigators could just be Mafia. I may have made bad decisions in Day 2 and we already decided to quit Town Leadership. We won't send anonymous messages through Psych anymore. Instead, we're going to explain all our reasoning and even reveal info that we would have preferred to keep concealed. I had three suspects (now two) and I am ready to present all my reasoning when it is necessary. I never ever asked anyone to treat me like a cleared Townie and even wanted some of them to investigate me. It was only Kay and Psych that I cleared and even if you guys had doubts about them, I reminded everyone that revealing your already-used items is not as risky as revealing roles/actions in other Mafia games.

Yes, upstanding, talkative townies like Unicycle eclipse/Obviam and dirty inactive scum like... god, there's too many to count. How about Kay's Bullshit Mafia team? You remember that, right, Kay? Where the only real LDRM that were active was... you?

I was StK

"But that's different! It was multifaction!"

Really?

Yes

A 6 player mafia game in which there are 5 townies and a single mafia? You honestly don't see the parallel here? That's how I thought of it the entire game. Obviously there are minor differences due to the fact that there were 19 other players and such, but really now.

You were treating LDRM like a mini Mafia game where you were Mafia and the other four (not five) were Town? Okay, if that's how you perceived moling to be, I don't see what that has to do with anything.

01[13:52] <Paperblade> why is WoMC under suspicion

[13:52] <Psych> I don't know

[13:52] <Psych> probably because he's been quiet

I NEVER SUSPECTED WEAPONS. That must have been Psych talking and had nothing to do with me.

Also, cool fax: Weapons will talk if you harass him enough. As it turns out, maybe you should try talking to people before running the lynch train on them?

Session Start: Wed Aug 31 18:49:11 2011

Session Ident: Weapons

01[18:49] <Paperblade> Weapons

01[18:49] <Paperblade> Master of Construction

01[18:49] <Paperblade> Weapons of Mass Funstruction

01[18:49] <Paperblade> speak tome

[18:51] <Weapons> hello paperblade

01[18:52] <Paperblade> what do you think of itemafia

[18:52] <Weapons> not much

[18:52] <Weapons> actually

01[18:52] <Paperblade> i

01[18:52] <Paperblade> *ic

[18:52] <Weapons> i haven't been very up to date

01[18:52] <Paperblade> how are your items

01[18:52] <Paperblade> ah

[18:53] <Weapons> my items are more than they appear

[18:53] <Weapons> apparently

01[18:53] <Paperblade> ic

[18:53] <Weapons> numerical wise

[18:53] <Weapons> i'm not sure what they do

01[18:53] <Paperblade> ah

01[18:53] <Paperblade> you mean

01[18:53] <Paperblade> they're worth more to thieves?

[18:53] <Weapons> possibly

01[18:54] <Paperblade> ic

I'm not seeing your point, sorry

I remember Kay said something about Proto was talking so much he'd had to have slipped up by now.

Is this enough slip ups for you?

There's nothing to slip up when you have nothing to hide.

[Psych]

I NEVER SUSPECTED WEAPONS. That must have been Psych talking and had nothing to do with me.

Proto does have a point here, but I approve of cutting the rest of the logs so it incriminates him. When Paper ask why Proto disapproved of the eclipse lynch and I spoke of other targets, I said Strawman or Life. Paper then asked why not Weapons. I said I guess we could lynch Weapons, and then Paper asked my why he was suspicious.

[Kriemhild]

Also, if anybody has an investigation item, I think it would be best if they were to investigate me. I would hate to get lynched just because some confirmed not-Town player decided to spout some rubbish before fleeing.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Alright, so I've eaten a banana and am ready to get back into this.

[Paperblade]

We can never be absolutely sure about anything.

No shit? Then why are you the one saying "X is 100%" clear?

You recruiting zorbees? I never actually thought you would have done that.

If I had I probably wouldn't have been so loud about it.

lolwut? I was talking about zorbees, not you or Life. If he was Mafia, he was either RNG'd as one, or chosen as the recruit. If he was chosen as a recruit, it would most likely be from you or Life. If he was Mafia, he would have likely recruited your or Life (I now know he won't recruit Life but w/e). Yeah, I understand that you and Life could have picked other people, but we wanted to check zorbees's alignment first, not yours.

Yes, I said your logic for lynching zorbees didn't make sense.

Also, since when do we lynch people to determine their alignment, especially when you were likely well aware that Psych had an inspect to use?

ADDITIONALLY, you have now said several times that regardless of what zorbees turned up, you were going to inspect me or Life. So then why lynch zorbees in the first place?

You yourself said that a Mafia zorbees would be capable of convincing his buddies to recruit his preferred target. I also remember you saying that it is VERY likely for zorbees and Life to be of the same alignment. I even remember telling you that zorbees's connections would make him quite an informative lynch and you did not deny that he was the best target. Paper, you need to read the logs that occured DURING Day 2, not after.

Bullshit, I NEVER said that zorbees was the best target. I also distinctly recall saying the following, knowing that I am not mafia

Life is Town: zorbees is town

Life is Mafia: null read on zorbees because we don't know if Life was recruited or not or if Life would even recruit zorbees

zorbees is Town: Null read on Life because Life could have still been recruited or recruited someone else, since, you know, he said he'd recruit eclipse

zorbees is Mafia: Life is mafia because I wasn't recruited and only Life would recruit zorbees. Note that this does not mean "Life would only recruit zorbees" which directly contradicts the logs I gave you 24 hours into Day 2

Why are you acting like Day 2 was centered all around Life? We weren't going to lynch Life and then try guessing other people's alignments based on these logs. We wanted to lynch zorbees at that time, not Life. Right now, my suspicion on Life has absolutely nothing to do with the recruitment.

Because you keep going "Oh there was no better lynch so we should rand zorbees for information" when I'm telling you that was bullshit and I told you it was bullshit OVER AND OVER AND OVER and you stuck your fingers in your ears going "lalala gotta lynch the townie"

What...?

You were willing to lynch zorbees because he was just going to get his items stolen anyway (ie zorbees is now an itemless vanillager) even though he clearly did not, since the only reason I have the chalice now is that Snike had me stalk Kaoz to confirm I was a thief. If it weren't for that, you could have given the Chalice to whoever the fuck you wanted.

[17:49] <Kitty-Ichimonji> Life had equal lynch priority with zorbees

01[17:49] <Paperblade> ...

[17:49] <Kitty-Ichimonji> UNTIL zorbees had to reveal his items

[17:49] <Kitty-Ichimonji> No zorbees put himself a little higher

01[17:49] <Paperblade> that

01[17:49] <Paperblade> doesn't make sense

Remember this (I posted this in the last post, too)?

Meanwhile, eclipse has claimed to have not found items two days in a row while having a useless item from N0, as well as being a good mark because she's likable and everyone trusts her and good at mafia and all that jazz.

But we're going to lynch zorbees, because it gives us information on Paperblade and Life. Rather than, you know, using Psych's inspect on him, when items can be used during the day (You guys do know that, right? Right?)

I never lied in any Mafia game.

I want to see logs or PM quotes as evidence for that. If you can't manage that much, can you at least tell me what my lie was?

Are you dense?

"I didn't save the logs but I clearly remember you saying something like Life wouldn't recruit anyone but zorbees"

This is a lie. I have a log with Life that I posted above, that I sent to you and Kay on the 27th of August where Life said that he would recruit eclipse for a number of reasons.

At that time, I believe you said something about host interference. Not to mention, Life admitted that he wasn't taking the game seriously, so I wasn't surprised that he'd make this kind of mistake.

The host interference was JB going "PAPER TOLD ME STUFF SO I CAN'T SUB IN" and then SDS going "K JB WON'T SUB IN UNLESS PAPER SAYS IT'S OKAY" and I was like "rusrs now everyone is going to think I'm mafia again"

Also, when did Life say this? I never gave you any log in which Life said that, and you said you haven't to him all game.

Lynching Life wouldn't have told us anything. Lynching zorbees, by YOUR own logic, would allow us to make good guesses on Life's faction. And though I didn't tell you on D2, it would have made YOUR alignment a little clearer. We intended to investigate either Life or you that night, but well, as I stated above, knowing zorbees's alignment had higher priority. And yes, at the beginning of the Day, lynching Life or zorbees and investigating the other would have had identical results, but we only became adamant about zorbees after he posted his items.

Yes, but ONLY IF ZORBEES TURNED UP MAFIA. If zorbees turned up non-maf, that would have been a mislynch for NO INFORMATION GAIN. But that's what a maf would want, right?

Also, I asked Core to inspect good players N0 (my list was me, eclipse, Life, and Kaoz), so don't give me that "This was about you" shit, you guys chose to inspect Kaoz over both me and Life when you had the chance to earlier in the game.

Entire day? I think you mean, for the rest of the day after he posted his items. I don't see how killing Life, investigating zorbees is very different from killing zorbees, investigating Life. Aside from the fact that the survivor gets to keep his items if he flips Town. Oh, wait, zorbees doesn't have any...

Lynching a townie and investigating a mafia to lynch is strictly worse than lynching a mafia and investigating a townie forcing you to look elsewhere. In one case, you have a clear that's alive and a dead scum, while in the other you have a dead townie and an alive scum.

There was also you, and I did not want you to know on Day 2 that we suspected you as being Mafia.

Like I said, you had no chance of getting that lynch to go through when your reasoning is "We're leading the town, DEAL WITH IT." You got the reaction you deserved.

Also you sure did do a shitty job of being suspicious of me, since I was able to get information from your "leadership" anyway, such as all your items and who was inspected. Nice job?

I was adamantly against a RANDOM lynch. How do you think it would look like if Psych goes like, "Alright, the Town Leader has decided to lynch Life/Clipsey! because half of the players are confirmed Town and we can now start lynching random unclear people until we win"? Not only is that logic invalid, but it's the stupidest thing I heard in this game. Do you actually think I'm idiotic enough to go with this? Or do you need me to add you to the PM to show you that there were actually proposing a RANDOM lynch and not a scumhunting one?

Once five or more people are in a PM, you can't add more. Five people max in a PM, SDS, you, Kay, Psych, Core is five.

Anyway

[16:14] <Paperblade> Core

[16:14] <Paperblade> can you add me to that PM

[16:15] <Paperblade> with you and Psych and them

[16:19] <Paperblade> Core

[16:19] <Paperblade> ;-;

[16:22] <Core_> ...

[16:22] <Core_> why?

[16:22] <Paperblade> because

[16:22] <Paperblade> Proto said to add me

[16:22] <Paperblade> "Or do you need me to add you to the PM to show you that there were actually proposing a RANDOM lynch and not a scumhunting one?"

[16:22] <Core_> Oh, ok

[16:22] <Paperblade> from the main thread

[16:22] <Core_> random lynch basically=scumhunting one

[16:22] <Core_> so thats BS

[16:23] <Core_> I can't add you

[16:24] <Paperblade> ugh

[16:24] <Paperblade> too many people

[16:24] <Core_> I guess

[16:24] <Core_> the option isn't available to me

[16:24] <Paperblade> yeah

[16:24] <Paperblade> could you post/PM what Proto said about an eclipse lynch or something

[16:26] <Core_> He was implying that Clipsey was a random lynch

[16:26] <Paperblade> did Psych imply that it was?

[16:26] <Core_> He was the first to say it

[16:26] <Paperblade> ah

[16:26] <Core_> no

[16:26] <Core_> Psych offered Clipsey as a target

[16:26] <Paperblade> ic

[16:27] <Core_> and Proto responded with "I don't want to random lynch Clipsey or Blitz

[16:27] <Paperblade> =/

[16:27] <Paperblade> so the only person who thought it was random

[16:27] <Paperblade> was him

[16:27] <Core_> That being said, I don't think Clipsey and Proto are aligned

[16:27] <Paperblade> how come

[16:27] <Paperblade> that seems like classic buddying

[16:28] <Core_> I talked to Clipsey and she seemed to be trying to incriminate him

[16:28] <Paperblade> could be bussing

[16:28] <Paperblade> idk

[16:28] <Core_> She pointed out how he was "circling" like he has done before

[16:28] <Paperblade> yeah

[16:28] <Paperblade> Life being mafia incriminates clips though imo

[16:29] <Core_> Yeah

[16:29] <Core_> most likely

I never lied in any Mafia game.

We don't even know if Life actually had a source confirming that you were a thief. He could have baited you and you fell for it. And then chosen a random source.

Yes, Life chose a random source and happened to guess one of the two players in the game out of 14 at the time that knew I was a thief. That's a 14.2% chance, for those of you who failed your statistics classes.

Now, wouldn't it make more sense to just include the "SDS slipped up" part unless he was certain you knew?

Yes, I admit I am not clear. And neither are a lot of people. Or ANYONE actually, since the investigators could just be Mafia. I may have made bad decisions in Day 2 and we already decided to quit Town Leadership. We won't send anonymous messages through Psych anymore. Instead, we're going to explain all our reasoning and even reveal info that we would have preferred to keep concealed. I had three suspects (now two) and I am ready to present all my reasoning when it is necessary. I never ever asked anyone to treat me like a cleared Townie and even wanted some of them to investigate me. It was only Kay and Psych that I cleared and even if you guys had doubts about them, I reminded everyone that revealing your already-used items is not as risky as revealing roles/actions in other Mafia games.

Then stop acting like it. You were willing to let Kay lie to Core and Psych about having inspected you, and Kay's logic was basically "It's easier that way, I trust Proto." Why should she trust you so much, when you yourself admit she has no reason to?

I was StK

That was directed more at Kay.

Yes

You don't understand mafia, then, sorry to say.

You were treating LDRM like a mini Mafia game where you were Mafia and the other four (not five) were Town? Okay, if that's how you perceived moling to be, I don't see what that has to do with anything.

Kay refused to acknowledge the parallel with BSM, where she immediately distrusted Obviam without even talking to him because she disliked him, which allowed me to mole easily. Here, she is doing something similar in that she immediately trusts you because she likes you, and seems to mistrust me because I have an ulterior motive in calling you out on your bullshit because I'm being a dick for calling her an idiot for blindly trusting you.

I NEVER SUSPECTED WEAPONS. That must have been Psych talking and had nothing to do with me.

That wasn't really directed at you, and was more Snike's random vote and Kay going "We should lynch Life because he's inactive, and inactivity is terrible."

I'm not seeing your point, sorry

fsr I thought there was a comment about "Hey we should lynch Weapons because inactivity," but apparently I combined Kay's post about inactivity and Snike's random vote on Weapons since I can't find anything like that on a reread. Or maybe something was edited out of a post, or maybe I'm just crazy. You can feel free to ignore the Weapons bit although I still think that lynching for inactivity is only slightly less random than lynching for being the first name on the player list.

There's nothing to slip up when you have nothing to hide.

I wonder what all these slips are for.

Edited September 6, 2011 by Paperkitty

[Paperblade]

Proto does have a point here, but I approve of cutting the rest of the logs so it incriminates him. When Paper ask why Proto disapproved of the eclipse lynch and I spoke of other targets, I said Strawman or Life. Paper then asked why not Weapons. I said I guess we could lynch Weapons, and then Paper asked my why he was suspicious.

Also, Psych, that is patently untrue. I asked why Weapons was under suspicion (because of Snike's randvote on him). Here's the whole log:

01[13:43] <Paperblade> psycho killer

01[13:43] <Paperblade> run run run

01[13:43] <Paperblade> run run awaaaaaaaaaaaaay

[13:44] <Psych> shhhhh

01[13:44] <Paperblade> ;/

[13:44] <Psych> tee hee~

01[13:44] <Paperblade> can you guys hurry up and lynch

01[13:44] <Paperblade> phase ends in like 3 hours

[13:44] <Psych> Proto doesn't want to

[13:45] <Psych> and he's being stupid about it

01[13:45] <Paperblade> =/

01[13:45] <Paperblade> what do you mean

[13:45] <Psych> he doesn't want to random lynch

[13:45] <Psych> when in fact

[13:45] <Psych> that's what we have to do basically

01[13:45] <Paperblade> good thing eclipse isn't a random lynch?

[13:46] <Psych> he's acting like it is

01[13:46] <Paperblade> that's silly

01[13:47] <Paperblade> who is he suggesting instead

[13:47] <Psych> No one at the moment

01[13:47] <Paperblade> that's really stupid

[13:47] <Psych> I suggested Life or Strawman but he didn't say anything about them

01[13:48] <Paperblade> =/

[13:48] <Psych> It's obvious Life is something ;/

01[13:48] <Paperblade> could be town, could be maf D:

01[13:52] <Paperblade> why is WoMC under suspicion

[13:52] <Psych> I don't know

[13:52] <Psych> probably because he's been quiet

01[13:52] <Paperblade> =/

[Snike]

It was more like a "Hi" vote, sort of to see if he could talk. I don't intend on trying to lynch Weapons.