The new art style

[Othin]

You really think no one is going to buy it? You know how much crap Wind Waker got for its art? Not to mention I want to exaggerate the issue rather than calling for a boycott (at least not a real one). In fact controversy can actually help bring the game attention. A stealthy promotion if you will.

I'm not interested in influencing anything. Just cause some ruckus and let them know we exist.

I attempted to convey this in my last post, but it seems I was unsuccessful, so I'll say it again: No, I don't think any of that. Even if I had been serious in my first post, that would be a huge leap to make.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Othin

[LycopolisKing]

I always thought that the last real graphical achievement for Fire Emblem would be nailing how the characters interacted when not fighting, but I never thought that it would come at the complete sacrifice of how they looked while on the grid. The grid views could use touching up as well from the last games (more individuality, specifically from FE11&12), but to make them completely 2D? When the gridview is the majority of the gameplay, realistically?

[Momo]

However, the majority of my favorite NES Classics were not pleasing to the eye in any way. The original Zelda looked terrible, as did the original Megaman games, and numerous others.

How in the world are you the authority on this? Those games had a simple charm to them and have aged quite well.

[Phoenix Wright]

How in the world are you the authority on this? Those games had a simple charm to them and have aged quite well.

Because he's the root admin of the best Fire Emblem forum on the Internet, that's how.

But seriously, I'm not sure if you missed his point, or understood it and ignored it. Aesthetic value is always subjective, but the point is gameplay has always been the reason people play games.

Now: Gameplay > Graphics > Plot (depending on the genre, otherwise originality and mechanics are both before it)> Mechanics > Originality

It used to be: Gameplay > Plot (depending on genre, otherwise originality and mechanics are both before it) > Originality >= Mechanics > Graphics.

Gamers have changed too much. Graphical prowess really is the least important when one chooses games. Minecraft is a fine example.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Phoenix Wright

[Othin]

It's never such a simple scale. Gameplay, story, graphics, music... they all contribute towards the overall quality of the game. How much weight is given to each depends on the player and the game, although I would expect gameplay to almost always be at or near the top.

[Celice]

But, Minecraft is good example only because of it has a nice package graphically. It doesn't do what it does wrong, in other words. It goes back that it doesn't really matter the number of separate colors able to be used and the size of a texture (someone said output resolution, and that's laughably useless to an extent), but how the graphics look under their restraints/leeways.

If Minecraft looked like ass, completely horrible textures, it wouldn't have been so great. The default textures aren't so ass, and that helps. and texture pack support -> infinite betterness

[Jyosua]

You really think no one is going to buy it? You know how much crap Wind Waker got for its art? Not to mention I want to exaggerate the issue rather than calling for a boycott (at least not a real one). In fact controversy can actually help bring the game attention. A stealthy promotion if you will.

I'm not interested in influencing anything. Just cause some ruckus and let them know we exist.

Haha, I remember how much shit people gave Wind Waker. Although Cel Shading isn't my favorite style, Wind Waker had amazing gameplay that more than made up for that; however, I still think the amount of noise people made over it was ridiculous.

Wind Waker was a Zelda game, though. And of course people would buy it. That didn't stop them from not localizing FE12./anotherjabatNoA

There's a distinct difference between Zelda - a major franchise with minimal text and localization necessary - and Fire Emblem, which is a niche, text-heavy strategy RPG. The former doesn't require the same amount of effort to localize that the latter does, and is guaranteed to make a fuckton of cash. A METRIC fuckton.

How in the world are you the authority on this? Those games had a simple charm to them and have aged quite well.

My Answer:

Because he's the root admin of the best Fire Emblem forum on the Internet, that's how.

:trollface: - this emote needs to be added.

Real Answer:

But seriously, I'm not sure if you missed his point, or understood it and ignored it. Aesthetic value is always subjective, but the point is gameplay has always been the reason people play games.

That said, I take it you did not watch those youtube videos. Even if you did, you're only proving my point - that simple charm is what made me love those games.

But, Minecraft is good example only because of it has a nice package graphically. It doesn't do what it does wrong, in other words. It goes back that it doesn't really matter the number of separate colors able to be used and the size of a texture (someone said output resolution, and that's laughably useless to an extent), but how the graphics look under their restraints/leeways.

If Minecraft looked like ass, completely horrible textures, it wouldn't have been so great. The default textures aren't so ass, and that helps. and texture pack support -> infinite betterness

Minecraft is a sandbox game taken to the extreme, and done well. This originality is what creates its [almost addictive] draw, and the simplistic graphics do not detract from this. It's not the prettiest PC game in the collection, but it is the favorite of many. I would argue the default textures are kind of ugly, but that is again subjective. Texture packs fix that.

Now: Gameplay > Graphics > Plot (depending on the genre, otherwise originality and mechanics are both before it)> Mechanics > Originality

It used to be: Gameplay > Plot (depending on genre, otherwise originality and mechanics are both before it) > Originality >= Mechanics > Graphics.

Gamers have changed too much. Graphical prowess really is the least important when one chooses games. Minecraft is a fine example.

Personally, plot is still pretty important to me as a gamer, but I'm an NES-raised gamer, so I've been through much of the modern video game evolution. Back when plot mattered most next to gameplay (especially for RPGs) it was still rather uncool to be a gamer. I'd wager that started to change around the time of the PS2 and Xbox, because there were many fantastically written games as late as the PS1 and N64. Nowadays, classic games such as X-Com, Syndicate, and even Monkey Island are getting reboots in the form of FPS. The term core gamer no longer applies to those that await the latest JRPG, RTS (StarCraft is an exception), or Platformer, and instead applies to those waiting for the next Halo, Modern Warfare, or Mass Effect. That's not to say these aren't decent games in their own right (I have a few words for Modern Warfare but that is for another time...), but the people the companies aim to please aren't generally the hardcore JRPG or SRPG fans...

[Momo]

That said, I take it you did not watch those youtube videos. Even if you did, you're only proving my point - that simple charm is what made me love those games.

So you're saying they looked good, when your point was supposed to be that they did not. Hmm. This is entirely opinionated and you can not make a statement like "All retro games look bad" and expect it to be a passable argument.

[Jyosua]

So you're saying they looked good, when your point was supposed to be that they did not. Hmm. This is entirely opinionated and you can not make a statement like "All retro games look bad" and expect it to be a passable argument.

No, my point was that particular NES classics looked like shit... but they are still classics. I was giving an example of a good-looking game (Ninja Gaiden) versus The Legend of Zelda. You misinterpret my words, and are being overly defensive.

[Thief]

You guys play FE for its graphics? Really?

[Lord Raven]

I think FE has generally nice graphics.

[Celice]

You guys play FE for its graphics? Really?

I liked how the snow fell in one of the conversations in FE9

._.

:3

[jigenbakuda]

You guys play FE for its graphics? Really?

quoted for truth... people who "play" games for graphics don't play games... *eyeroll* fire emblem has never had awesome graphics... now music on the other hand...

I have consistently hated video game graphics that aren't hand drawn / snes graphics, but I still play lots of games now....

and chrome really does look like cecil from ff4ds... just saying, its that body proportion thing that makes them look like their feet are wooden pegs.

For the record I dislike the artstyle of this game, just like I've disliked the artstyle of the last couple of FE games... but all it takes is one cute girl character to make me forget about the graphics and light that moe in my heart... then graphics no longer count because I'm emotionally invested in a character (I'm looking at you nephenee).

[General Spoon]

This isn't Atlus style either since Atlus has realistic face proportions and uses gradient shading occasionally.

I'm pretty sure that people are thinking of the map sprites when they make this reference. I know that I am.

Additionally, it would seem that there must be a similarity to Atlus style if several people have thought "Atlus called; they want their sprites back"

[NTG]

Oh WOW I'm loving this art style! :D I love how they seem to have different expressions too. As for the models/sprites, they look pretty funky.

[paladin21]

I liked more the other style, but I can accept this one, excluding the Easter Eggs Armour Knights. They seem to only be able to turn into a ball and endure hits...

[Ike-Mike]

You guys play FE for its graphics? Really?

You guys want your food to look good? Really?

[Super Mecha Death Christ]

Although Cel Shading isn't my favorite style,

That reminds me. Cel-shading would look amazing for the more anime art style of Fire Emblem. I'm actually kinda disappointed we don't have a cel-shaded Fire Emblem now. I was hoping the original POR would have cel-shading, and IS did seem to want to go in that direct from the early screens, but they dropped it. Considering IS still sucks monkey fuck when it comes to pushing shaders, I think cel-shading is the best route to go. That said, FE3D looks like it's pretty competent in the tech department. They have a solid lighting in place with some simple metallic shaders and what appears to be animated normal maps for the water. The water in Radiant Dawn was also one of the best graphical effects in that game.

If anything, this game seems to have a slightly pudgier look of the GBA battle sprites.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Super Mecha Death Christ

[Blademaster!]

You guys want your food to look good? Really?

His point went way over your head didn't it?

The art style used in this game is fine. The only complaints I think anyone can really have are that it looks more "generic anime like" (but so does every JRPG) and that there are no talking and blinking frames. The 3D graphics have also been greatly improved.

In my opinion, the art style being used in this game is the best in the series so far, but then I don't really have an "eye" for art anyway and am smart enough to know not to judge a book by its cover.

[Klytus]

I've had a 3DS since day one, and if there's one thing I've figured out since then, it's that the graphics take on a different life when they're actually viewed in 3D. I'm not impressed with the battle animations right now, but I'll have to see them in 3D in order to really weigh in on it.

A good example of this is the new Shinobi game. The screen captures are horrible, but when I got my demo of it at E3, it actually looked really cool.

[Momo]

His point went way over your head didn't it?

The art style used in this game is fine. The only complaints I think anyone can really have are that it looks more "generic anime like" (but so does every JRPG) and that there are no talking and blinking frames. The 3D graphics have also been greatly improved.

In my opinion, the art style being used in this game is the best in the series so far, but then I don't really have an "eye" for art anyway and am smart enough to know not to judge a book by its cover.

My argument was never that the game looked bad, it's that you should want your games to look good. A game looking bad is a point against it, and that's a fact.

[Celice]

I've had a 3DS since day one, and if there's one thing I've figured out since then, it's that the graphics take on a different life when they're actually viewed in 3D. I'm not impressed with the battle animations right now, but I'll have to see them in 3D in order to really weigh in on it.

A good example of this is the new Shinobi game. The screen captures are horrible, but when I got my demo of it at E3, it actually looked really cool.

Almost all the footage of the 3DS games look awful. I mean, the system itself has absolutely no anti-aliasing on it which already makes it look like shit (I've turned on the 3D mode just to help it out, not for 3D). Then all the footage I've seen on games have not only the jaggies, but the resolution is stretched so you have blurry, pixelated garbage rather than graphics.

3DS is the only polygonal-based system where I've noticed it being that bad before.

It might be a trick of the eyes, but with 3D enabled the games do look better. They may not actually be better, but you perceive them that way, and for pretty much everyone that's all that matters.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Celice

[Blademaster!]

A game looking bad is a point against it, and that's a fact.

Not really...

[Othin]

Not really...

Even if the difference is just 0.0001% of the game's overall quality or something similarly ridiculous, good graphics are always better than bad graphics, at least whenever the good graphics don't otherwise cost something from the game.

Note that this is defining "good graphics" in terms of total graphical design, not just the technology or resolution behind it.

[Thor Odinson]

I don't know about you, but I'd rather look at pretty graphics and nice art than utter shit. Might be the artist in me, but bad graphics makes my eyes hurt.