Burning Forest 1

[Kaoz]

Completly forgot to do this in the last post...

Bracket image is updated and can be found in the OP.

Loser's Finals

Kaoz vs mmKALLL

Deadline is November 19th.

[PKL]

Regarding stages, I would prefer stage striking personally. And the stage list could use some tweaks. (Im a smashville whore) I obviously also prefer 3 stocks. It felt weird to me when i won so quickly (or lost) since im used to that third stock xD. Oh and no items, double elimination.

[whase]

So much character changing, Kaoz and Whase like, never change their characters. Evar.

yeah, lol. only character with whom I've got any chance of winning (and still I didn't)

also, what's single and what's double elimination? and I don't hate items, but it's just better to have them off.

when burning forest 2 starts, I'll be sure to join again ^^

[Kaoz]

also, what's single and what's double elimination? and I don't hate items, but it's just better to have them off.

Single Elimination means that you're out as soon as you lose one set. Double Elimination is what we used this time, so you have to lose twice to drop out of the tournament.

[whase]

Single Elimination means that you're out as soon as you lose one set. Double Elimination is what we used this time, so you have to lose twice to drop out of the tournament.

ah, okay.

so what does pools mean?

if it means it's point-based (everyone fights everyone), I'd choose that. I just don't want to be out this fast...:(

[PKL]

Pools doesnt work with little amounts of people. Its better to do a double elimination or a round robin. Round robin means more play time for the worser players (making them improve). While double elimination gives them a second chance but they usually dont play as much as in a round robin. Still, I prefer double elimination because, round robin might take longer and Im used to it.

[mmKALLL]

Sadly enough, I'm barely at all available until 20th-24th (three months of free time after that though, lol), and probably unable to play unless you catch me in the IP Chat and I'm not afking. :/

This week's Sunday evening might be doable, though, something like between 7:30-9:00 pm [GMT+2].

In my opinion striking stages would only work with an environment made for it like AiB, a clear rule on who starts, and a very small starter list.

Double Elimination definitely, I'm fine with both 2 and 3 stocks, 1 stock is maybe too short for online where you may spend a minute between matches in a menu.

I don't specifically mind items - Loota (Finnish player, by most recent he is PR4) made an excellent legal item list through very extensive testing for Wi-Fi item matches. Food only is a way to counter planking, but the medium-power items aren't too strong as they are avoidable with skill and knowledge. They also balance the tiers a little for mid-tiers and few low-tiers. Those characters with poor speed and zoning may suffer even more than right now though (Bowser and Ganon in mind specifically). Items are sometimes fun (as long as no, say, Smash Balls, Dragoon, Heart Container, Maximum Tomato at the very minimum), but if it's competetive, obviously rather turned off.

Single Elimination is that players drop out when they lose, Double Elimination is exactly this - a person who loses a match still has a chance, which makes the top places much more fairly determined. Say if the better player always won and in Single Elimination the best and second best are chosen to meet each other in first round? Some random bad player may come to the finals, and gets a much better position than the second best player. In Double Elimination the second best would go to "Loser's Bracket" instead, and the winner of that side (the person with only one loss and won all others) gets to fight the person who mashed through all their matches without losing even once.

Right now, I just lost the first time and dropped into the losers bracket. I already won several matches so I'm up against the best of the Losers' so far - Kaoz. The winner of the Losers' Finals (me vs Kaoz) gets to fight PegasusKnightLover since he didn't lose even once and therefore is in the Grand Finals.

Also, PKL, I'm quite sure I didn't use Marth after MK, instead I used Falco. Which is why I'm salty since I didn't get to play with Marth, I shouldn't have screwed up with MK there >______>

My Meta sucks. Even wifimarth is better, and I won quite a few times (with nice combos, I may add) in the friendlies

E: Isn't round robin same as pool(s)?

Edited November 10, 2011 by mmKALLL

[Kaoz]

Round extended until KALLL is available I guess.

Also, when I was talking about "less extreme items", I was mostly refering to this.

[PKL]

Oh right, last match was ur falco vs my game and watch, sorry about that. Got mixed up with the friendlies after the match xD. And to answer your question:

No, in Round Robin from what Ive heard (never actually played RR) is that everyone plays each other and the one with the most points at the end wins. Theres no bracket.

In Pools, its divided into groups. Let's say: Group A: KALL, random player, scrub, masher and Kaoz. Two of those players will come out, one with low seed (2nd most points in that pool) and one with the high seed (the one with most points) and then a bracket is made with all the players that got out. Top seeds play lower seeds in the first match of brackets.

[PKL]

Also, I dont hate items. I actually quite enjoy playing with them on from time to time. But when its for money or competition, theyre best turned off :p.

[Kaoz]

Oh right, last match was ur falco vs my game and watch, sorry about that. Got mixed up with the friendlies after the match xD. And to answer your question:

No, in Round Robin from what Ive heard (never actually played RR) is that everyone plays each other and the one with the most points at the end wins. Theres no bracket.

In Pools, its divided into groups. Let's say: Group A: KALL, random player, scrub, masher and Kaoz. Two of those players will come out, one with low seed (2nd most points in that pool) and one with the high seed (the one with most points) and then a bracket is made with all the players that got out. Top seeds play lower seeds in the first match of brackets.

If you're making that distinction, yes that's correct. I'll change it to RR in the poll, since that's what I had in mind.

[mmKALLL]

Yeah, RR is after all, it seem, just an specification of having a single pool over multiple.

[Vorena]

Wow, a lot of activity in a short amount of time. Tomorrow will be fun.

As far as I can tell, most smash tourneys outside of online have something at stake like some sort of prize. If you give out multiple prizes to the top 4-5 placing people, you want to make sure it is to the top 4-5 players. Doing a bracket randomly could occasionally give one person an easy ride to the top 4 while some other player who typically ranks 3rd (obviously better than this unknown guy), but the returning player got knocked out of bracket early because they played the 1st and 2nd ranked guy in tournament. In that scenario, the guy who you expected to get 3rd doesn't get a return for entering simply because of chance.

If you only have to care about 1st and 2nd place, then bracket is a fairly accurate representation of placement, but it rapidly declines after that. So, you have to seed bracket in some way to make sure that some random mishap does not occur. The other benefit is bracket takes fewer matches overall so it should take less time.

Quick round-robin's (pools) are used to seed people into bracket, but same thing can occur if you randomly do it there. So, sadly, you sort of have to rig pools in a way so that you have an even spread of skill in a pool so that bracket ends up being done right.

Overall, these are simply friendly tournaments with nothing really at stake other than bragging rights and really an unlimited span of time. I see no issue with doing round robin only in future. Its even easier to set-up because you no longer have to wait for some sort of deadline. You know you have to face everyone eventually so you just set-up times with everyone when you can. One person could have all there matches done in less than a few days if they were lucky. Right now, you sort of have to wait for other matches to finish before you play your next one which means there is greater chance for time confliction and dragging out an event.

Edited November 10, 2011 by Coconut&Lime

[Quintessence]

Well as I have brawled for competition, I'm missing using Final Smash and items .

3 stock matches definitely, 2 stocks are too short.

Stages, whatever except donkey stages

Battles.....both are fine for me.

[Crimson Red]

So all that's left is losers finals and finals finals or did I get that wrong?

[Kaoz]

So all that's left is losers finals and finals finals or did I get that wrong?

It's called Grand Finals, but yes, that's correct.

Also, whoever of KALLL and me wins LFs needs to win two sets against PKL in GFs to win the tourney.

[PKL]

Yeah, GF or Grand Finals. The player coming from losers has to beat the other in 2 sets to make up for being in losers, its tough, but Ive seen it done a lot of times before. Never give up :p.

[PKL]

Any progress? Who do i get to replay in GF? :p

[mmKALLL]

No progress, but our set is uploading right now. You can find it on my channel (mmKALLL) from YouTube within..

Edited November 16, 2011 by mmKALLL

[Vorena]

I need to get some hacks like that.

[PKL]

Saw the games :p. Good shit. I felt a bit sorry for that falco SD in last match, but what can u do, but take advantage of it . Also, damn, I need to practice wifi TL, it sucks ass in lag. I miss every Toon Link advanced technique in lag.

[whase]

Also, damn, I need to practice wifi TL, it sucks ass in lag. I miss every Toon Link advanced technique in lag.

it even caused me to selfdestruct on one of my matches, I know what you mean XD

[mmKALLL]

I beat you in the friendlies with Toon Link - 100% win rate with him but I think I should've used Marth in stead of MK, definitely. My MK sucks. And I thought it would be a cool pick from the pocket, maybe you'd get gay'd and lose or something. But you're cooler than my MK lol.

Are there any videos of you playing offline?

Edited November 16, 2011 by mmKALLL

[Crimson Red]

Takes too much time to do hax IMO, I did some but it's just so time-consuming. Definitely fun though.

And I'm glad to see our matches aren't up there haha, though me getting my ass beat WAS pretty funny... but probably only because I knew I'd lose haha

[Vorena]

I would say it is only time consuming at first. Once you know what your doing you can make a few changes in like an hour. If you want to change the entire game, then that would take a much longer.

Also, MK will always be better than anyone on wifi. You get the Shuttle loop read against an airdodge once and they die.