Its too bad there's still no archer lord

[Paper Jam]

A bow lord sounds interesting, but I'd rather see another mage lord. Preferably male, without all the "special powers" like Micaiah had, and an anima magic user.

... Actually, just give me a mage lord who doesn't have all those "mystical powers" that Micaiah had. And good characterization.

Sounds a bit like Soren. Sure, he wasn't a lord, but he did play a pretty important role,

and he was royalty to boot, and that was more than even Ike could say.

[Anouleth]

A bow lord sounds interesting, but I'd rather see another mage lord. Preferably male, without all the "special powers" like Micaiah had, and an anima magic user.

... Actually, just give me a mage lord who doesn't have all those "mystical powers" that Micaiah had. And good characterization.

Micaiah had better characterisation than most lords. It was nice to have a lord that actually seemed to have a reason to be a nice person. Unlike Ike who's just inherently perfect and wonderful.

[Shroom]

Having a female, dark-skinned, bow-wielder lord would hitting many birds with a single stone for the FE series.

A Pegasus knight wouldn't be a bad idea either.

[CrashGordon94]

Having a female, dark-skinned, bow-wielder lord would hitting many birds with a single stone for the FE series.

A Pegasus knight wouldn't be a bad idea either.

So, Igrene as a Lord?

[Momo]

Having a female, dark-skinned, bow-wielder lord would hitting many birds with a single stone for the FE series.

Doing it for the sake of such would be a really bad idea, though.

Also yeah, Igrene.

[thanibomb]

There's an archer on the box art! <3

EDIT: But its too small to tell if its male or female. X_X

Edited February 24, 2012 by Briggid

[lancerusso]

There's an archer on the box art! <3

EDIT: But its too small to tell if its male or female. X_X

Guessing from the long hair and lithe figure (look at those legs), it's a she. Or a Lucius. Either way, <3

Oh, and if she was a she, it'd make six guys and six gals on the cover. Assuming 'Marth' isn't a trap...

[Brave Lord]

Do you know the guy you mistook for Zihark it's that guy and he is Sephiroth looking to be honest....

[Sunwoo]

Both these replies are a tad late, but ...

Sounds a bit like Soren.

To be honest, I despise Soren as a character. Yes, I know of his difficult past and that he's suffered much ... but if he's a bit unpopular with the Greil Mercenaries and the rest of Ike's army aside from being the tactician, that's kind of his own fault. Ranulf doesn't seem bugged by him. Neither Tibarn, Naesala, or Caineghis showed signs of being bothered by him. Mordecai and Lethe only got angry at him after he called them sub-humans. So while Soren has had a difficult life and I do feel bad for what he has had to live through, I hate the way he "deals" with it. There are other characters in other games and anime who've had difficult lives like Soren, but have learned to deal with it so much better than he. In regards to personality, I'd rather have a lord who's between Eliwood and Soren. Not super cynical like the latter, but I wouldn't want them to be idealistic like the former.

Micaiah had better characterisation than most lords. It was nice to have a lord that actually seemed to have a reason to be a nice person. Unlike Ike who's just inherently perfect and wonderful.

Personally I have to disagree. I don't understand why Micaiah was such a "friend to living things", especially to laguz. She is from Daein, and in general the people of Daein don't like the laguz. Her heritage doesn't count, because she apparently has no idea of who she is until endgame. Speaking of which, I'm not happy about the truth of her heritage either. Nor do I like that all of the Dawn Brigade are like, "Micaiah said it, so it must be true!" What ever happened to hearing voices in your head is a bad thing? I am also not a big fan of characters who can see the future and hear voices of deities, because it kind of sets them up so that FATE WON'T LET THEM FAIL instead of the character blazing his/her own path. One thing that I liked about Ike was that Shinon and Gatrie abandoned him after Greil died, so it wasn't like, "Greil Mercenaries all love Ike, no matter what!" and he had to actually struggle to be worthy as their commander. The guy was in the right place at the right time, he was not "destined" to do anything.

But ... now I'm getting off topic. So, to get back on topic, I'd actually think a mage fighter lord would be cool as well. I don't know, just give me a magic-using lord (preferably male) who won't annoy me.

[Rewjeo]

Personally I have to disagree. I don't understand why Micaiah was such a "friend to living things", especially to laguz. She is from Daein, and in general the people of Daein don't like the laguz. Her heritage doesn't count, because she apparently has no idea of who she is until endgame.

Erm, doesn't she know she's branded from the get-go? I feel like being discriminated against her whole life for something like that would let her look past laguz-ness.

The one problem with a mage fighter is that, if Jugdral is anything to base it on, it's hard to make both worth using.

Edit: Oh hey I'm Ena now. Yay.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Rewjeo

[Sunwoo]

Erm, doesn't she know she's branded from the get-go? I feel like being discriminated against her whole life for something like that would let her look past laguz-ness.

The one problem with a mage fighter is that, if Jugdral is anything to base it on, it's hard to make both worth using.

Edit: Oh hey I'm Ena now. Yay.

I was actually referring to her specific heritage, the reason why she can hear voices in her head. Besides, I have to disagree with the "I feel like being discriminated [...] lets her look past laguz-ness" part. The Branded generally hate the laguz, because the laguz refer to them as Parentless and act as if they don't exist. I think most Branded would be like Soren and/or Stefan (unless they were raised by extremely open-minded parents or people), and that Micaiah is an oddity (and not necessarily for the better).

And also, when I said I wanted a mage fighter lord, I was assuming that they had decent magic and strength growths. I mean, look at RD Tormod's growths. If they let him be a mage fighter ... man, oh, man, he would've been awesome with a physical weapon with his 55% strength growth and decent base. And his magic isn't shabby either.

[Rewjeo]

I was actually referring to her specific heritage, the reason why she can hear voices in her head. Besides, I have to disagree with the "I feel like being discriminated [...] lets her look past laguz-ness" part. The Branded generally hate the laguz, because the laguz refer to them as Parentless and act as if they don't exist. I think most Branded would be like Soren and/or Stefan (unless they were raised by extremely open-minded parents or people), and that Micaiah is an oddity (and not necessarily for the better).

Well, do we know what relations she had with Laguz? Given that she lived in Daein, it wouldn't surprise me if the interactions she had with the Laguz in your party were the first ones she had seen much of. Doesn't Muarim figure out what she is and not treat her the worse for it, or am I mistaken?

And also, when I said I wanted a mage fighter lord, I was assuming that they had decent magic and strength growths. I mean, look at RD Tormod's growths. If they let him be a mage fighter ... man, oh, man, he would've been awesome with a physical weapon with his 55% strength growth and decent base. And his magic isn't shabby either.

But if you're killing things well enough with magic and at 1-2 range, why switch to a sword? Or if you're bad with either one, why use it over the other? Ideally the magic could be like FE12's javelins/handaxes and be helpful at times but other times lack the oomph you need so swords are worth using.

[Sunwoo]

Well, do we know what relations she had with Laguz? Given that she lived in Daein, it wouldn't surprise me if the interactions she had with the Laguz in your party were the first ones she had seen much of. Doesn't Muarim figure out what she is and not treat her the worse for it, or am I mistaken?

But if you're killing things well enough with magic and at 1-2 range, why switch to a sword? Or if you're bad with either one, why use it over the other? Ideally the magic could be like FE12's javelins/handaxes and be helpful at times but other times lack the oomph you need so swords are worth using.

Paragraph 1: It wouldn't surprise me either if Nailah, Rafiel, and Volug were the first laguz Micaiah had ever seen or met. And what about Jill? She was horribly racist against laguz in PoR in the beginning ... because she hadn't ever got to KNOW them! And what about Sothe? Micaiah notes that he used to refer to laguz as sub-humans before he met Ike and actually fought with laguz. Which strengthens my point. Micaiah was raised in Daein. Even if she is part-laguz and was aware of it, as a person who grew up in Daein she should not be so ... friendly towards laguz. At the most, she should be a little conflicted. Remember the flashback in the Tower of Guidance. Apostle Misaha said that she used to wonder if her laguz blood was something she should be ashamed of, before she met Lehran. And yet, Micaiah -- WHO GREW UP IN DAEIN -- does not act like the typical Daein citizen. Also, Muarim doesn't really count. He's a former slave who not only fought with Ike and met several good beorc, but he ALSO RAISED ONE. Typical laguz should be more like Vika and PoR Lethe, from what I surmise.

Paragraph 2: Using Tormod as an example again, both his strength and magic growth along with his bases make me think that if he were a mage fighter, he'd be competent at both. Also, maybe if there was an enemy with such high resistance but low defense to die easily enough to physical attacks? FE7 Ursula comes to mind. I think she had max resistance (or close to it), but her defense isn't the best. I cleanly 1RKOd her with max strength Rath using an iron sword in one scenario and Farina with a silver lance in another. If I really had to, I can get two strong physical units down there if one couldn't do the job.

[Rewjeo]

Paragraph 1: It wouldn't surprise me either if Nailah, Rafiel, and Volug were the first laguz Micaiah had ever seen or met. And what about Jill? She was horribly racist against laguz in PoR in the beginning ... because she hadn't ever got to KNOW them! And what about Sothe? Micaiah notes that he used to refer to laguz as sub-humans before he met Ike and actually fought with laguz. Which strengthens my point. Micaiah was raised in Daein. Even if she is part-laguz and was aware of it, as a person who grew up in Daein she should not be so ... friendly towards laguz. At the most, she should be a little conflicted. Remember the flashback in the Tower of Guidance. Apostle Misaha said that she used to wonder if her laguz blood was something she should be ashamed of, before she met Lehran. And yet, Micaiah -- WHO GREW UP IN DAEIN -- does not act like the typical Daein citizen. Also, Muarim doesn't really count. He's a former slave who not only fought with Ike and met several good beorc, but he ALSO RAISED ONE. Typical laguz should be more like Vika and PoR Lethe, from what I surmise.

No duh Micaiah doesn't act like the typical Daein citizen. She isn't your typical citizen. Do you think all Americans have the same biases?

You can't say Muarim doesn't count. If the only laguz she got to know well were ones like Volug and Muarim, then that could explain why she doesn't dislike them.

Paragraph 2: Using Tormod as an example again, both his strength and magic growth along with his bases make me think that if he were a mage fighter, he'd be competent at both. Also, maybe if there was an enemy with such high resistance but low defense to die easily enough to physical attacks? FE7 Ursula comes to mind. I think she had max resistance (or close to it), but her defense isn't the best. I cleanly 1RKOd her with max strength Rath using an iron sword in one scenario and Farina with a silver lance in another. If I really had to, I can get two strong physical units down there if one couldn't do the job.

But even if Tormod would be *competent* at using swords, magic would be preferable for him 99% of the time and it would be nice if it was more 50/50.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Rewjeo

[luchinania]

Wouldn't a mage fighter have more defense than a normal mage? Which would make them more durable than a mage and a front line candidate.

[Celice]

They don't necessarily need to have more defense. They could still be weak, and just have a melee weapon too. Or the necessary skill/speed to dodge things.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Celice

[Sunwoo]

No duh Micaiah doesn't act like the typical Daein citizen. She isn't your typical citizen. Do you think all Americans have the same biases?

You can't say Muarim doesn't count. If the only laguz she got to know well were ones like Volug and Muarim, then that could explain why she doesn't dislike them.

But even if Tormod would be *competent* at using swords, magic would be preferable for him 99% of the time and it would be nice if it was more 50/50.

I think you're missing my point. Micaiah is a citizen of Daein. She's lived in Daein her entire life. She is Branded, and she knows it. Both Soren and Stefan are Branded. They're both rather cynical about beorc and laguz. Micaiah hides her identity as a Branded, so she knows that she could be ostracized for it. And yet, she is somehow "Miss-Sunshine-Charismatic-To-Convince-Nailah-And-Rafiel-To-Fight-For-Daein" and a "friend to all living things". I am reminded of a poorly written fanfic character when I think of Micaiah. Although the Branded in general are said to have powers that beorc fear, we only see Micaiah's power ever be relevant. She's the true apostle (when Sanaki already exists) and becomes the queen of a country she has no relation to its rulers. (Soren says hi.) Laguz and beorc don't treat her the way they'd treat any other Branded.

But anyway, I think you and I are just going to have to disagree on this. You can tell me that Micaiah is a well-written character, and I will have to disagree no matter what you tell me. I have my opinions on her, and you have yours.

Also, yes it would be nice if Tormod's magic and sword use were equally useful ... but I'm not creating the game, so it's not really something I can work on.

[Rewjeo]

I think you're missing my point. Micaiah is a citizen of Daein. She's lived in Daein her entire life. She is Branded, and she knows it. Both Soren and Stefan are Branded. They're both rather cynical about beorc and laguz. Micaiah hides her identity as a Branded, so she knows that she could be ostracized for it. And yet, she is somehow "Miss-Sunshine-Charismatic-To-Convince-Nailah-And-Rafiel-To-Fight-For-Daein" and a "friend to all living things". I am reminded of a poorly written fanfic character when I think of Micaiah. Although the Branded in general are said to have powers that beorc fear, we only see Micaiah's power ever be relevant. She's the true apostle (when Sanaki already exists) and becomes the queen of a country she has no relation to its rulers. (Soren says hi.) Laguz and beorc don't treat her the way they'd treat any other Branded.

Micaiah certainly does have flaws, and I don't remember exactly what happens well enough to offer an explanation as to why she was able to convince Nailah and Rafiel to fight for her. However, I think we've established that she's in a group of unusual beorc/laguz, so she doesn't have the same experiences as others. Beyond that, it makes sense to have the story focus on a rather extraordinary individual. It's not like we don't have cases in real life of individuals who seem beyond their surroundings, and that explains why she becomes queen. Soren's lineage won't get revealed in most playthroughs, Pelleas' background is drawn into doubt what with Izuka being insane, and Micaiah was the reason Daein became free again. Of course they flock to her. Of course, once it becomes clear she's branded, well that should be a problem. If IS ever did a sequel and Daein magically accepted that, then I would definitely agree that she's a Mary-Sue, but currently I think she is thought less of than she deserves and that she also could have come out as a better character with a better writer.

That was sort of rambly. I apologize.

[RNG Princess]

Micaiah doesn't convince Rafiel to join her, he willingly decides to help her on both occassions even though she tells him not to.

[Sunwoo]

Micaiah doesn't convince Rafiel to join her, he willingly decides to help her on both occassions even though she tells him not to.

Doesn't that make her more a Mary Sue, though? Rafiel (and Nailah) are the reason the war between the Laguz Alliance and Begnion even started. No one knew that the senators were the cause for the Serenes Massacre, until Rafiel showed up and told them. And then ... he and Nailah decide to switch sides in a war that they are responsible for because "Micaiah needs people on her side". Apparently, the fact that Daein is fighting for Begnion, whose senators murdered his entire people, means nothing to Rafiel in the face of Micaiah. Has he forgotten that his last remaining family is on the Laguz Alliance?!

Edit:

she also could have come out as a better character with a better writer.

I completely agree with that. Micaiah had so much potential. But it seems to me like the writer got lazy and just took the "easy way out" and made her seem like a Sue.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Boron

[Anouleth]

I think you're missing my point. Micaiah is a citizen of Daein. She's lived in Daein her entire life. She is Branded, and she knows it. Both Soren and Stefan are Branded. They're both rather cynical about beorc and laguz. Micaiah hides her identity as a Branded, so she knows that she could be ostracized for it. And yet, she is somehow "Miss-Sunshine-Charismatic-To-Convince-Nailah-And-Rafiel-To-Fight-For-Daein" and a "friend to all living things". I am reminded of a poorly written fanfic character when I think of Micaiah. Although the Branded in general are said to have powers that beorc fear, we only see Micaiah's power ever be relevant. She's the true apostle (when Sanaki already exists) and becomes the queen of a country she has no relation to its rulers. (Soren says hi.) Laguz and beorc don't treat her the way they'd treat any other Branded.

Well, Micaiah is a special branded since she is the direct descendant through the female line of Lehran and Altina. You would expect the direct descendant of a powerful Heron and one of the heroes of the war against Yune to have some powers, and one of those powers is the fairly routine "can see the future" dealie, which other FE characters share (such as the half-dragon Sophia).

And yes, she's charismatic. Every FE main character is. Ike mouths off to the Empress and gets away with it, has a special fighting style passed down from his father that only he knows, isn't racist despite growing up in a racist country and being raised by a father from an even more racist country, and is so fucking charismatic and lovable that he basically falls into the position of General despite having no experience commanding a real army. He is just as much of a Mary Sue.

If I had to guess, Micaiah probably never met any laguz growing up in Daein. After all, she lived a secluded life and would avoid laguz who could sense her. During the war, I would imagine that any laguz in Daein would take the opportunity to go off with Ike's army. After all, Ike didn't meet any laguz as a child either. Whereas Soren grew up in Gallia (I think) and Stefan has been all over the place, so there would be plenty of opportunity for them to experience laguz discrimination.

I wouldn't call her a friend to all living things. Micaiah can be downright callous when it comes to anyone who isn't from Daein. After all, she's willing to use boiling oil to wipe out the Apostle's Army and to slaughter countless laguz.

But anyway, I think you and I are just going to have to disagree on this. You can tell me that Micaiah is a well-written character, and I will have to disagree no matter what you tell me. I have my opinions on her, and you have yours.

What does it mean to be a well-written character? Do you find her personality hard to believe? Is her dialogue unrealistic? Or perhaps, is it that Nailah and Rafiel aren't well-written since they help her for what you think is not adequate reason?

Erm, doesn't she know she's branded from the get-go? I feel like being discriminated against her whole life for something like that would let her look past laguz-ness.

She probably realised as she was growing up. Soren talks about how he realised he was Branded because he noticed he was aging more slowly, and I would imagine that the brand on her hand would tip her off too.

Micaiah also talks about how during the war, she didn't face much discrimination, and there's references to her life beforehand being "secluded".

"Micaiah: I've been secluded so long, I had no idea people were so strong... and kind. No one knew who I was, but they helped me because I was from Daein. They were so... loving. They were my friends.

Sothe: And now you won't leave them.

Micaiah: I was touched by their kindness. Now, I'm scared to lose it. Very scared."

[Sunwoo]

Well, Micaiah is a special branded since she is the direct descendant through the female line of Lehran and Altina. You would expect the direct descendant of a powerful Heron and one of the heroes of the war against Yune to have some powers, and one of those powers is the fairly routine "can see the future" dealie, which other FE characters share (such as the half-dragon Sophia).

And yes, she's charismatic. Every FE main character is. Ike mouths off to the Empress and gets away with it, has a special fighting style passed down from his father that only he knows, isn't racist despite growing up in a racist country and being raised by a father from an even more racist country, and is so fucking charismatic and lovable that he basically falls into the position of General despite having no experience commanding a real army. He is just as much of a Mary Sue.

If I had to guess, Micaiah probably never met any laguz growing up in Daein. After all, she lived a secluded life and would avoid laguz who could sense her. During the war, I would imagine that any laguz in Daein would take the opportunity to go off with Ike's army. After all, Ike didn't meet any laguz as a child either. Whereas Soren grew up in Gallia (I think) and Stefan has been all over the place, so there would be plenty of opportunity for them to experience laguz discrimination.

I wouldn't call her a friend to all living things. Micaiah can be downright callous when it comes to anyone who isn't from Daein. After all, she's willing to use boiling oil to wipe out the Apostle's Army and to slaughter countless laguz.

What does it mean to be a well-written character? Do you find her personality hard to believe? Is her dialogue unrealistic? Or perhaps, is it that Nailah and Rafiel aren't well-written since they help her for what you think is not adequate reason?

She probably realised as she was growing up. Soren talks about how he realised he was Branded because he noticed he was aging more slowly, and I would imagine that the brand on her hand would tip her off too.

Micaiah also talks about how during the war, she didn't face much discrimination, and there's references to her life beforehand being "secluded".

"Micaiah: I've been secluded so long, I had no idea people were so strong... and kind. No one knew who I was, but they helped me because I was from Daein. They were so... loving. They were my friends.

Sothe: And now you won't leave them.

Micaiah: I was touched by their kindness. Now, I'm scared to lose it. Very scared."

Paragraph 1: The reason I hold Mary Sue-ness against Ike a little less than Micaiah is because he had his chance to show us where he started, through PoR. He mouths off to the apostle and gets away with it, but I assumed that it was because Sanaki sort of needed them to expose the senate. But that's a reasonable point.

Crimea's not considered "racist" as a whole the way Daein is. Greil lived in Gallia at one point, so I assume that he lost his racist beliefs when he was living there. Ike didn't even know what a laguz was in the beginning of the game, and so he probably had no reason to see them as inferior or anything. I always thought that Ike became the general of Crimea's army because Elincia hired the Greil Mercenaries to help her take back Crimea and he was leading the group at the time. But I think the biggest point is that when the group finally does reach Crimea, Lucia tells Elincia about how the people are "whispering that their king had a daughter in secret, and the princess is fighting to free us all". No mention of Ike. Whereas Jared tells Micaiah how the people are more interested in their Silver Haired Maiden then their supposed prince -- and he was right. I suppose it's not so much Micaiah's actual character that bothers me, but how everyone fawns over her and thinks she can do no wrong. At least Shinon and Gatrie deserted Ike immediately after Greil died. Shinon still doesn't like Ike. Ike had to earn the laguz's respect by proving that he's a decent guy. Rafiel, Nailah, and Volug just sort of gave Micaiah their trust on the spot. :\

Didn't Micaiah know she was Branded from the beginning, though? She said to Muarim as he and the LEA were leaving: "The old woman who raised me told me what this brand meant, and to never tell anyone of it."

Either way, not sure if this is the right place to be having this discussion ...

[thanibomb]

Looks like the archer on the box art is a male after all. Unless that's another archer...

[Emblem Lugh]

Looks like the archer on the box art is a male after all. Unless that's another archer...

Let's see... The characters on the box art appear to be...

Krom

Liz

Marth

Frederick

Viole

Callum

Sairi

Vake

Saria

Sumia

And one guy and girl we haven't seen before