Aere Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Hey all... just opening this up to discuss the release of Gilad Shalit, an IDF soldier, by Hamas. He was held hostage for ~5 years, and was released on the grounds that Israel would return around 1,000 Palestinian prisoners, who had all been convicted of various crimes (Including terrorism and murder). Personally, I think this deal is a bit steep. Of course, I want Shalit back with his family and friends, but it is estimated (*reading wikipedia*) 60% of those who were convicted of terrorism will return to it after their release. That's around 600 people, who could potentially kill hundreds of others, just for the release of one man. Discuss how you feel about this deal/ransom... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Saving a single person is extremely meaningful. But in this case, it comes at potentially a far greater cost. Israel is being too kind with Hamas here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rothene Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I guess it depends on how well Israel can keep tabs on those 600 odd men. Terrorist activity have to carried out in secrecy. Now that those identities have been revealed, their activities would no doubt be closely watched, and that means any suspicious movements on their part can be acted upon quickly I suppose. If so, then saving that one life was worth it, when the cost can be 'negated' in a way. It's not like prisoners live for free...now the Hamas has 600 more mouths to feed and arm and whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burning_phoneix Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Hey all... just opening this up to discuss the release of Gilad Shalit, an IDF soldier, by Hamas. He was held hostage for ~5 years, and was released on the grounds that Israel would return around 1,000 Palestinian prisoners, who had all been convicted of various crimes (Including terrorism and murder). Personally, I think this deal is a bit steep. Of course, I want Shalit back with his family and friends, but it is estimated (*reading wikipedia*) 60% of those who were convicted of terrorism will return to it after their release. That's around 600 people, who could potentially kill hundreds of others, just for the release of one man. Discuss how you feel about this deal/ransom... Most of these people have been in jail for decades, they're too old to actually be out carrying guns and bombs. And numbers really mean nothing to Hamas or other organizations, grunts are always easy to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I'm happy he's back with his family but you should never underestimate people who have access to weapons no matter what their age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aere Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) Most of these people have been in jail for decades, they're too old to actually be out carrying guns and bombs. And numbers really mean nothing to Hamas or other organizations, grunts are always easy to find. I don't think age really matters in a SUICIDE bombing. And, even taking elderly into account, it is estimated 60% of those released will return to a life of crime. I think the cons outweight the pros. Why save a single life, when you put thousands at risk? EDIT:: Eww Miciah Edited October 19, 2011 by Aere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defeatist Elitist Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Most of these people have been in jail for decades, they're too old to actually be out carrying guns and bombs. And numbers really mean nothing to Hamas or other organizations, grunts are always easy to find. More or less agreed, and I really want to re-emphasize that Hamas does not have any sort of shortage of people. If they really wanted to carry out attacks, the attacks would be carried out regardless of whether they had these people or not, so I think it's rather fallacious to just say "because of this there will be 600 more terrorist attacks". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aere Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 More or less agreed, and I really want to re-emphasize that Hamas does not have any sort of shortage of people. If they really wanted to carry out attacks, the attacks would be carried out regardless of whether they had these people or not, so I think it's rather fallacious to just say "because of this there will be 600 more terrorist attacks". I'm not saying there will be 600 more attacks, but even if a single one of those 600 potential terrorists kills a man, is the trade worth it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defeatist Elitist Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I'm not saying there will be 600 more attacks, but even if a single one of those 600 potential terrorists kills a man, is the trade worth it? And I'm saying that's impossible to determine, because chances are that the attack would have happened anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aere Posted October 20, 2011 Author Share Posted October 20, 2011 And I'm saying that's impossible to determine, because chances are that the attack would have happened anyway. It's a safe guess that at least 1 out of 600 (600 is only 60% of the freed terrorists) will kill one person. The 'other' attack would happen or not happen regardless, this attack would be added... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burning_phoneix Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 I don't think age really matters in a SUICIDE bombing. And, even taking elderly into account, it is estimated 60% of those released will return to a life of crime. I think the cons outweight the pros. Why save a single life, when you put thousands at risk? EDIT:: Eww Miciah Though its impossible to determine how many of these people are actually guilty of attacks. The vast majority of the list of people (According to the list on wikipedia) have unknown crimes which can be anything from a suicide bombing to throwing stones at a israeli vehicle. Most of the ones convicted of serious terrorist attacks are deported to Gaza, an almost impossible place to escape, which is why for seven years suicide bombings are incredibly rare and rocket attacks increasingly common. The ones released into the West Bank are usually under secuirty survelliance and must report to the Israeli Military once a month. Others are deported to foreign countries indefintely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) As a future Israeli soldier, I'm worried about Hamas actually trying to kidnap soldiers in the future in return for more terrorists. I'd be silly if I said I wasn't. However, to me, Gilad Shalit is a hero. He withstood almost 6 years of captivity and never broke. Takes a lot of mental strength to do that. I'm truly glad he's home. In addition, I have to say that I'm pretty disgusted that nobody here is ranting about the price. 1027 men for a single life? Are you kidding me? The Palestinians do not give a shit about human life and nobody is in outrage over this? Do these people really deserve their own country if they have pretty much publicly claimed that a single Israel is worth 1000 Palestinians? Fuck no. I love how people just talk about this as if it's normal. If Mexico kidnapped an American soldier and gave him back in return for 1000 people, the world would be going nuts. But because it's Israel, nobody gives a shit. Edited October 27, 2011 by Kefka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) In addition, I have to say that I'm pretty disgusted that nobody here is ranting about the price. 1027 men for a single life? Are you kidding me? The Palestinians do not give a shit about human life and nobody is in outrage over this? Do these people really deserve their own country if they have pretty much publicly claimed that a single Israel is worth 1000 Palestinians? Fuck no. Do the Palestinians really not give a shit about human life? If that's the case, then why did they organize an exchange for 1027 people? Perhaps they merely acknowledge that to care about human life in general is not to care absolutely about each individual occasion of human life, including one's own? If these terrorists are so dangerous, then why did Israel exchange 1027 of them for a single life? There is certainly something potentially absurd here regarding the exchange, but both parties took part in it. However, to me, Gilad Shalit is a hero. He withstood almost 6 years of captivity and never broke. Takes a lot of mental strength to do that. I'm truly glad he's home. How did they try and break him? But I agree, I'm very glad he's home. I love how people just talk about this as if it's normal. If Mexico kidnapped an American soldier and gave him back in return for 1000 people, the world would be going nuts. But because it's Israel, nobody gives a shit. I wouldn't be going nuts, I'd just be glad that the American soldier was safe and leave it at that. Edited October 27, 2011 by BlueMartianKitty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 As a future Israeli soldier, I'm worried about Hamas actually trying to kidnap soldiers in the future in return for more terrorists. I'd be silly if I said I wasn't. However, to me, Gilad Shalit is a hero. He withstood almost 6 years of captivity and never broke. Takes a lot of mental strength to do that. I'm truly glad he's home. In addition, I have to say that I'm pretty disgusted that nobody here is ranting about the price. 1027 men for a single life? Are you kidding me? The Palestinians do not give a shit about human life and nobody is in outrage over this? Do these people really deserve their own country if they have pretty much publicly claimed that a single Israel is worth 1000 Palestinians? Fuck no. Democracy in action. Nobody is speaking up because it's popular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 (edited) This is rather by-the-by, but a similar but less disproportionate swap was conducted with Egypt. I have little in addition to say on the matter, but I thought people interested in this topic might find it interesting. Edited October 29, 2011 by BlueMartianKitty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aere Posted October 31, 2011 Author Share Posted October 31, 2011 I'm arguing that the return of however many terrorists is debatably not worth Gilad Shalit. If a released terrorist kills another Israeli, what would have been accomplished? The safety of one for the death of another (Or more, if >1 are killed). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) I'm arguing that the return of however many terrorists is debatably not worth Gilad Shalit. If a released terrorist kills another Israeli, what would have been accomplished? The safety of one for the death of another (Or more, if >1 are killed). If. You're dealing in conjecture. I agree that it was an ill-advised decision on Israel's part, assuming these 1027 Palestinians actually proved themselves dangerous, but we won't really know until something happens involving one of these released 1,027. As it is, Israel's enemies in the Occupied Territories are legion. Edited October 31, 2011 by BlueMartianKitty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zahlman Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I'm not here to register an opinion, except to disagree strongly with: But because it's Israel, nobody gives a shit. People definitely give a shit, and "because it's Israel" is exactly why. The whole Israel vs. Palestine thing constantly recurs in American politics and media. In Canada somewhat less so, but I've found that articles on the topic in Canadian media are absolute god tier when it comes to generating angry Letters to the Editor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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