Thor Odinson Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Claude!Swordtwins would actually be kinda fun. Magicsword restank Skasaher gogogo~ But yeah it's far from optimal XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I'm pretty sure the only father-dependent character that Mekkah might even consider is Arthur with Levin as father. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 29. Volug, from FE10 I went back and forth between Volug and Titania here, but in the end, Titania will PROBABLY MAYBE make a reappearance and you can only write about redheads so much before their appeal decreases. Meanwhile this is probably Volug's only shot, and I already cut some FE10 laguz earlier (I really wanted Janaff and Ulki in there at first...). As much as I could talk about how Volug eats enemies and how funny that is and stuff, this top 30 is an awfully convenient excuse for a trip down memory lane. Let's look at this summary of Volug. If you recognize it, more power to you. This is basically a summary of his life in FE10, starting in 1-5. Volug: Hai guyz, wuts goin on here? Nolan: I'm a pretty cool guy. I figth and doesnt afraid of anything. Aran: I'm pretty good at tanking. Edward: Me too, except I do it with my pants off. Leo: I'm so charming the enemies like attacking me. btw I have crappy offense and I die in 2 hits. Micaiah: I get OHKO'd by everything. The stuff that can't double and kill me anyway. Laura: Me too, except everything doubles me, in addition to OHKOing me. Ilyana: I'd fight, but I'm too hungry. That and everything kills me in two hits. Meg: I'm bottom tier lolololol Sothe: I'm the only one who doesn't get my ass kicked if four guys gang up on me. Volug: Sounds good. I have more att than Sothe, and about the same speed and def, but way more HP and move. btw, I have earth affinity too. brb, imma solo the map. *proceeds to rape the face off of everything* Volug: These enemies taste good. Ilyana: Can I have some? Volug: You have to get your own. Ilyana: But I'm so hungry... Then 1-6 rolls around... Tauroneo: Hai I'm gonna solo this chapter with my trusty bronze lance. Volug: That's cool, but you only exist for this chapter. Tauroneo: What? Dammit! Jill: Hey I'm Jill, why do you have over twice my base HP? Zihark: I'm Zihark, our offense is about the same, but why are you stomping my durability and move? Nolan: I'm still getting my ass kicked. Aran: Me too. Edward: I don't even wanna go near Volug. He might eat me. Volug: That's not possible. I only eat enemies, and I can tell you're not an enemy because you're weaker than them. And then 1-6-2.... Fiona: I'm going to rebel against the boss! I hope you guys can save me in time, because these guys kill me in two hits and I'm across the map! Micaiah: She's so far away! Leo: We wait for the day! Nolan: Is there anyone who can save her in time? Tauroneo: I'd go, but my mobility sucks ass. Meg: We have to save her. After all, I'll finally have someone on the team worse than me! Volug: Did someone just call my name? *runs off to save Fiona's dumb ass* Jill: I'll come too! Aran: What for? All you'll do is stay behind him. Ilyana: Fooooood... Begnion enemy: What's this? A laguz? Kill him! Volug: lolnub *pwns* Micaiah: Tauroneo! I have bad news! Tauroneo: What? Micaiah: I have a letter from Pelleas telling me that you can't participate until 3-12. Tauroneo: Why? Micaiah: It says it was from the word of God. And Volug's abs. Tauroneo: That's impossible! My beard is just as manly as his abs! Volug: Well, it's time for me to eat all the enemies. ???: NOT SO FAST, VOLUG! *Tormod, Muarim, Vika join* Tormod: You activated my trap card, LEA! This lets me bring along two laguz even better than you! Volug: But we have no olivi grass. Vika: What? Then how are we supposed to stay transformed? Volug: Blame the guy who was in charge of your availability. Muarim: Sorry to disappoint you Volug, but I'm still manly even when untransformed. I am equal in strength to Largo, who could pin two tigers with his bare hands. Volug: Were they 3-6 hard mode tigers? Muarim: Yes. Volug: Hmm... That is pretty manly. Aran: Yeah, and I'm manly too! Volug: You need a personality first. And more stats. *enemies start charging at them* Enemy 1: Oh no! It's Volug AND Muarim! Enemy 2: What do we do? Volug: Bend over. *Volug and Muarim pwn them* Then 1-8 rolls around... Micaiah: Oh no! They have prisoners and they want us to go to the swamp! Sothe: Obviously, let's go there completely unprepared. Micaiah: No, we are fine. We have Volug. Sothe: Oh yeah, you're right. *DB walks to the swamp* Tormod: IT'S A TRAP! Jarod: Haha! Let's go and shove these prisoners into the swamp - OH ****! Is that Volug AND Nailah AND Muarim? Zihark: Who's Nailah? Nolan: You know Volug? Zihark: Yeah. Nolan: Now replace the abs with large breasts. Zihark: Sweet. Jarod: But I've come prepared! I hired some bandits! They have the same def as armors, spd as myrmidons, and str as fighters! See them and weep! Aran: Crap! What're we gonna do? Nolan: just leave them to the others. We'll charge at the boss because he's a mage, and enemy mages are always crap. Zihark: Kinda like how all our mages are crap? *meanwhile in other parts of the swamp* Volug: These enemies are tough, but they're nothing compared to my abs! Nailah: Volug, go eat some of the enemies. We won't need to hunt for food now. Tormod: Attention, bandits! My shorts are assaulting you! Vika: Muarim, I need some drugs. Muarim: Okay. I can transform by taking hits anyway. *counters a bandit untransformed, bandit dies* Well so much for that... *couple of minutes pass, all the bandits die* Jarod: Crap! Not as planned! *leaves the swamp* (note: Plan means keikaku) Prisoners: Thank you for saving us, Maiden of Dawn! Micaiah: *to self* I wonder if I should tell them I did absolutely nothing? Volug: *burps* It's a little heavy on the abs worshipping, but it's proof smash isn't wrong about everything...as Int has put it before, even a broken watch gives the correct time twice a day, or something like that. So yeah, Volug joins the Dawn Brigade when they're really hurting for some real power units. For some story related reason (they want Volug to look like a pet or something...as if anything that badass can be a pet) Volug stays Halfshifted throughout Part 1. That's okay though, because his stats are great. I have not played FE10 personally so once again here's some copypasta for you, this time from a debate I had with Red Fox long ago. Volug. lv 15 HP: 49 Atk: 25 AS: 19 hit: 139 Avo: 51 Def: 13 Res: 7 He one-rounds every enemy on the map and is at worst 4-rounded by physical enemies, (but as much as 10-rounded by some weaker enemies) 3-rounded by magic enemies, but there are only a few magic enemies, so that really isn't a problem for him. It can also be noted that the stronger physical enemies have ~53 hit on him, so the chance of him actually dying in 4 hits is pretty low. Let's compare him to the otherwise best unit on the team, Sothe. Sothe. lv 3, A Micaiah, w/Kard HP: 35.6 Atk: 25 AS: 21 Hit: 138 Avo: 73 Def: 14.4 Res: 9.6 They have the same Atk and they both double everything, so their offense is equal. Volug's got that nice 13-14 HP lead though, which is easily > 1-2 defense, so his durability wins. Sothe is 3-rounded by the 26 Atk enemies that 4-round Volug, 4-rounded by the 24 Atk enemies that 5-round Volug, and everything else is negligible in comparison. He also has +2 move, so he's pretty much the best unit on the team immediately. The only other possibly notable people on the team are Nolan and Aran. A level 12 Nolan is 2-rounded by those 26 atk guys (4 round Volug), 3-rounded by those 24 atk guys (5 round Volug), and 4 rounded by 19 atk Myrms (9 round Volug), possibly 2 rounded is his Speed is a point lower (average of 11.8, Myrms have 15 Speed). Level 9 Aran is 2 rounded by those 26 atk guys, 3 rounded by the 24 atk guys, 2 rounded by the myrms who will double him, and even 2 rounded by the mages that are 3 rounding Volug. Volug's awesome, Sothe is good, almost everyone else is a liability. Volug does have a bit of a range problem, which is one of the reasons people have tried to argue Sothe above him before, but so far the character with the better upper body exposition withstood the test of time. The funny thing about the Damp Brigade is that their crew is as lopsided as it gets. At first they have just frail units, then Nolan improves upon that quite abit, then Sothe joins and dominates, then Volug joins and he could eat them all. And then they get Tauroneo, and the LEA, and Nailah, and the Black Knight, and Rafiel I guess, and it's like my God where do all these godly units come from? But unlike pretty much each and every one of those bulldozers, Volug remains deployable in 3-6. The only other unit from that badass list that you can use in 3-6 is the Black Knight, and he likes to take his time. Volug is a major force in 3-6, which consists entirely of 1-range enemies that 2-3RKO your whole team. Meanwhile Volug gets more#HKO'd, and has the means (mostly the durability) to even try some gimmicks like Resolve, untransformed kickboxing, Beastfoe, etc etc. Most of this amazing durability comes from his now fully transformed state, which comes at the cost of having to use Olivi Grass, but there's plenty of that around. In the other two part 3 maps for the Dawn Brigade, Volug remains impressive, being one of your outs to end 3-13 early by bringing Ike to 0 HP (can't really call it killing...defeating, I guess?). The relatively large amount of availability compared to many other laguz gives Volug the distinction of probably the only laguz that can level up his Strike properly, all the way from A to SS, given enough use. The only run I know that has really used Volug a lot is dondon's 0% growths run, and even then I'm not sure if he used Volug in part 4 (he's not really an endgame candidate). But according to our old theorymon, he does hold up there, barely doubling and, like everyone, having a ton of skills to choose from. Like many of the bottom of this list, I'm not sure if Volug REALLY (heh) deserves to be on here. But he's definitely a pretty cool guy and he's ranked right below a pile of units that are pretty likely to make a return on this list, so I don't feel too uncomfortable with him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 The only run I know that has really used Volug a lot is dondon's 0% growths run, and even then I'm not sure if he used Volug in part 4 (he's not really an endgame candidate). I did. I would have liked some str growth to keep him ORKOing in 4-3, but you can't have it all. I think that for the absolute highest efficiency, Volug is somewhat subpar. But then again, so is Franz (and to a higher degree), so I won't disagree with your selection. 30 units is a lot, I mean... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renall Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Damn dude, you got another 28 of these guys? I wonder which games most of them come from... Do you base your rankings on the game they're in being easier/harder? Is it more awesome to be rock-solid in Thracia 776 or to be Seth, who is a ballstomping demigod in a game that could be cleared by an anemic shepherd? Or does the lower difficulty actually work in his favor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 A few things I take into account: - Position on tier lists, which indirectly takes into account how much a unit contributes to an efficient playthrough. - How much the unit stands out in their game. This reflects a little poorly on, for example, Thracia 776 units, because of the universal stat caps and the fact almost every unit can ORKO enemies with enough crit. It also hurts FE10 units because of how many different teams there are, so no unit can really break the whole game. - How helpful a unit is to more slower, casual players. This is rather minor but I used it to sneak in Sedgar, for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 @ more casual players note: Maaaybe Lakche will make it in! //shot I'm gonna actually guess on Miledy being somewhere on this list. Maybe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Sage Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I hope the Pope makes an appearance on this list . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Damn dude, you got another 28 of these guys? I wonder which games most of them come from... Do you base your rankings on the game they're in being easier/harder? Is it more awesome to be rock-solid in Thracia 776 or to be Seth, who is a ballstomping demigod in a game that could be cleared by an anemic shepherd? Or does the lower difficulty actually work in his favor? I would make it about the effect that the unit has on the game. Seth can complete FE8 so fast that it's basically impossible to train other units: they do help him in a few areas, such as flying rescue drops, warpskipping, and covering Rout maps, but Seth has a huge impact on the game and is really, gamebreaking since he renders a lot of stuff completely obsolete. The same can be said for Titania, and Marcus, and Sigurd, and Franz if Seth doesn't exist (Franz can promote at the end of chapter 7, and from that point on he's quite similar to Seth), so you could expect to see all of them on this list. I don't really understand your point about Thracia 776. Even failures like Marty and Ronan can be "good" with scrolls and the weak enemies. But I think that certainly, Saphy has a pretty big effect on her game as Queen of Warp and deserves to be on this list as much as Seth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 (edited) The more I think about it, the higher chance that Saphy has of being Top 5. At least one of the FE5 staff users will be high on this list and I'm putting my money on the one who exists for the majority of the game (though Salem could be there instead). EDIT: Oh and knowing Mekkah, Dagda's getting a spot. Probably somewhere in the 20's but I won't be surprised to see him. Edited December 8, 2011 by Bblader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 (edited) Dagda definitely deserves it, too. King of capture for at least a good portion of the game even if you don't scroll him at all, in a game where capture is necessary to get weapons and funds? Hells yes. Wasn't Hammerne also locked to Saphy? In which case, it means EVEN MORE WARP STAVES. Glorious. Edited December 8, 2011 by Luminescent Blade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Dagda isn't really top 30 material, I think. He's a good unit, but you really have to be something special to get on this list, and I just don't think he quite cuts it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 My guesses (I don't recall confirmation or denying): Alan Lance Miledy Marcus Raven (just because of casual players) Sain Kent Ninian Seth Tethys Titania Oscar Marcia Jill Reyson Haar Ike Rafiel/Reyson Saphy Tina Lara Sigurd Levin!Arthur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 (edited) I don't think Tethys is really that special though. I mean, being a dancer, she's automatically pretty useful, but I don't think she deserves to be top 30, really. She isn't even the best refresher in the series, and I wouldn't put her over Franz. Dagda isn't really top 30 material, I think. He's a good unit, but you really have to be something special to get on this list, and I just don't think he quite cuts it. I dunno, I think the source of all my weapons for at least half the game is something pretty amazing. Though I guess eventually better offensive units catch up to his con, like Othin (hell, Neir-spammed Machua got 14 by endgame) so you're probably right. Edited December 8, 2011 by Luminescent Blade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 (edited) Mekkah would probably put Felgus over any other combat unit from FE5 on this list if he had to make the choice. Combat is really second fiddle to special utility in that game, though. In addition to Lord Raven's list, Lena and Caeda from FEDS and My Unit and Palla from FE3 DS deserve the cut. I would personally stick FE5 Asvel there too. Edited December 8, 2011 by dondon151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 (edited) Before I stand by Tina though; is the thief staff really that important and more importantly, locked to her? (I forgot about those people btw) I forgot FE4 Dancers as well although I can only see them helping in small amounts. At least Tethys has use in Seth-free runs. Edited December 8, 2011 by Mercenary Raven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Tina is really important in SSS rank runs (Thief and Unlock are both exclusive to her). Otherwise, not necessary by any means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Before I stand by Tina though; is the thief staff really that important and more importantly, locked to her? (I forgot about those people btw) I forgot FE4 Dancers as well although I can only see them helping in small amounts. At least Tethys has use in Seth-free runs. Tethys has use in every run of FE8. I usually promote Knoll purely so he can protect her from siege tomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 (edited) @ Tina: I don't really think it's /that/ important. It's nice to have, but she doesn't have the greatest bases, she'll take a while to get going, and I really only deployed her at base in 24 to steal some extra staves that I probably could've done via capture anyway. It's good, but probably not as good as the contributions of say, Safy or Asvel. Like Dondon said she's great in SSS rank runs, but she's not really necessary for a more normal run. Edited December 8, 2011 by Luminescent Blade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zahlman Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Tethys has use in every run of FE8. I usually promote Knoll purely so he can protect her from siege tomes. Do any of the siege tome users in FE8 actually move? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I'm pretty sure he also meant shadowshots from those annoying Gorgons as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Do any of the siege tome users in FE8 actually move? Yes. There's a mobile Purge using Sage in Chapter 16 and a mobile Shadowshot user in Chapter 18. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 And possibly Caeda. Because Wing Spear is that ridiculous. Not sure about MU, but being an anything that kills everything's gotta be worth something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wen Yang Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 MU is invaluable in harder difficulties because of how broken he/she is. Having fully tailorable growth rates results in some pretty broken results. However, if speed and efficiency is the matter being compared, Mallesia kicks MU's ass. Her hammerne saves WAY more turns, while MU can be replaced by other people. For easing newbies into the series though, MU rocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 (edited) 28. Rutger, from FE6 You're playing FE6 Chapter 4. I would like to say it is your first time, without looking at walkthroughs, but this story works so much better in Hard Mode, so we'll go with that. Maybe someone from #feto gave you a savestate or something. Anyway, everything is going smoothly. Chad has the Pirate reinforcements intercepted with his insane avoid in a forest saving him from a KO. Marcus, Lance, and Alan are barely managing to hold off the Cavalier swarm, and occasionally you are rigging RNs so that Lot doesn't whiff with his Halberd and get doubled in return. What could possibly go wrong? Suddenly, a small group of units come out. Hey, it's that swordsman from the cutscene? What's he doing her- why is he mov- oh I hope he doesn't have Killi- ok he whiffed the crit just be fin- NO DON'T DOUBLE AND DON'T CRIT FFFHFUFHFFRUH It won't happen to the more experienced players, but I'm sure it got plenty of people for the very first time, or some other time where they get. And that's when Rutger starts showing how strong he is: by doubling and killing YOUR units. Imagine how good he is versus all those Bern, Laus, Ilia, Sacae, or whatever mooks. Rutger has the entire game ahead of him availability wise, and when he joins he'll always be your fastest unit at 15 in HM (though theoretically Thany could surpass NM Rutger). That is really half the Myrmidon/Swordmaster deal right there: Rutger is as fast as greased lightning. He just doesn't stop doubling until he runs into Gel or something like that. Not even those enemy Mercenaries and Nomads are safe from him. The other thing Rutger brings to the table is accuracy. In most FEs, this isn't a problem, but FE6 is notorious for its Russian Roulette accuracy on weapons. Rutger has 115 hit at base with an Iron Sword, and only 5 less with the Killing Edge. In comparison, on the save I'm checking (I'm lazy ok) Alan has around 85 hit with Iron Lance, 100 with Iron Sword. Marcus has 98 with Silver Lance, Lot has 78 with Iron Axe, Dieck has 94 hit with Iron Blade, yadda yadda. It might not sound like much, but enemies in FE6 have quite a bit of avoid. 20 avo for most "slow" ones like non-weighed down Cavaliers and Fighters, 30 for Mercenaries, that's not unusual. Rutger adds quite a bit of reliability here. Where he's even more of a crutch is bosskilling. Wagner, from Ch6, has 58 avoid because FE6's idea of difficulty (as well as certain ROM hackers......) is to have thrones give 30 avoid. I don't know about you but I'm not that great at evading sharp objects when I'm sitting on a throne. Even Rutger has some issues hitting this guy. He should have around 60 displayed (68% true), but unlike your other units, he'll be doubling because this Shaman has 12 spd...much better than Lot's like 20% chance of hitting him once, or even Alan's 35-40%. Even on Knight/General bosses like in Ch7 and Ch8, Rutger pulls through thanks to the Armorslayer and its rather insane 85 hit. Of course, the main reason to fanboy (or fangirl) over Rutger (other than his looks,,,) comes after he promotes: FE6's totally flashy 30% crit bonus for Swordmasters and Berserkers. Combined with Rutger's 20-gonna-be-30 Skl, that's around 40% crit at base already. There's no S-rank crit bonus in this game (which is unfortunate because FE6 makes him hit S like right away), and enemies do have some Luk in this game, but there's Killing Edges to add another 30%, and slower players can add another 25% through Clarine and Dieck supports, which also add to Rutger's already outrageous Avo laughing at FE6 weapon hit. Rutger's promo item is rather highly contested for when it comes to the sheer number of units that need a Hero Crest to promote, but thankfully most people know to plan their team around those and it'll be pretty much between him and Dieck who gets the first Crest. Rutger can profit from an early promotion as soon as Ch8, or a little later just to uncap his Skl and Spd and give him that delicious Crit bonus earlier. But there's nothing wrong with waiting for a little while to give him more chances at strength procs and everything, unless you're doing 0% growths. Throughout the game, Rutger remains very useful for taking out fast enemies, but his flaws (yes, he has flaws!) begin to show, especially in the extremely efficient runs. For one, he's not mounted, and this game has some pretty enormous maps to drag your units through. This limits his use as a bosskiller and generally lessens exposure. He'll also become less of a juggernaut in comparison to your team members if they manage to start getting clean 2HKOs on enemies, though FE6 enemies generally make this quite a difficult task with their rather enormous HP values. The fact that a unit like Rutger is only #28 shows how tight the competition is. You really need to see him as one of the 30 winners than a loss to everyone above him. RUTGERSPEED Edited December 8, 2011 by Mekkah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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