HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 this chapter is considered one of the most hated chapters of all time in the fandom, and i'm with them when they say that its rather luck based. We'll take care of this in steps. what would you do overall to make this far less luck based? what would you do to Jaffar seeing how he gets himself killed 7 times out of 10? what would you do to Zeph to make defending him easier? what would you do to Nino to make her not completely worthless but not making her too strong? feel free to only anwser what you want if you don't have a problem with all the issues, also do add in other stuff if you feel like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolate Kitty Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 this chapter is considered one of the most hated chapters of all time in the fandom, and i'm with them when they say that its rather luck based. We'll take care of this in steps. what would you do overall to make this far less luck based? uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh okay sure, let's play your game what would you do to Jaffar seeing how he gets himself killed 7 times out of 10? how the hell did you manage that. Did you just choose not to move /any/ of your units and let him break his killing edge? I don't know, give him an elixir? A Steel Sword? what would you do to Zeph to make defending him easier? the whole point of defending him was the challenge, I see this a irrelevant, especially since the enemies don't even go after him, and the ones that do are fighters. He has a silver sword ;/ what would you do to Nino to make her not completely worthless but not making her too strong? Nino's fine, move on. feel free to only anwser what you want if you don't have a problem with all the issues, also do add in other stuff if you feel like it. change nothing, the damn thing is fine as is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTNP Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 (edited) what would you do to Jaffar seeing how he gets himself killed 7 times out of 10? Well with the Elixir he SHOULD in theory be fine but he isn't since if the player gets unlucky Jaffar can get swarmed and killed enemy phase. So to me the best option would be to move the enemies around him around so it takes longer for Jaffar to reach them and in lower numbers. Also I would give them less accurate weapons (like steel) and make it where you make the enemies around him axe users (decreases his chances of being struck) and they already have lower than usual hit rates to better his chances of living. With that being said, I might also give him a lower density around him as well to limit the number of enemy units that could take him out. Shift them toward the player's starting position to keep the pressure up on the player. what would you do to Zeph to make defending him easier? I think he's fine as is personally. what would you do to Nino to make her not completely worthless but not making her too strong? Start her as a Lv.13-15 Mage and increase her con by 1. Then give her Thunder (6WT - 4 Con = 2AS loss before promotion, 1 AS loss after) along with El Fire (10WT - 4 Con = 6 AS loss before promotion, 5 AS loss after) so she has an option of a weapon that doesn't completely destroy her AS. Lastly an Earth Seal so she can automatically promote as soon as the player wants. Also it would let the player (if they have someone else they would rather promote) be able to use it as well. Then suddenly you have a mage that (if you bother to use her) has pretty average stats and good growths that wont take an extra 30 turns near endgame to get up to snuff. Edited December 9, 2011 by NTNP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titamon Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 Nino imo is fine as is but the +1 con is nice and maybe we can move her closer to the group so we can recruit her faster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 The only part about this chapter that pisses me off is Jaffar's survival against those HHM swordreaver fighters. It's not tough to reach Zephiel on time, and Nino is fine as is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 how the hell did you manage that. Did you just choose not to move /any/ of your units and let him break his killing edge? I don't know, give him an elixir? A Steel Sword? It's the Swordreaver fighters and Thunder mages (and a smattering of other magic users and archers) that Jaffar might die against, and you can't do anything about it. 2x Swordreaver + Thunder kills him, and they all have around 50 hit. Easy fix: just don't give them Swordreavers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 This level is pants but since i dont really play hard mode, it isnt so bad for me. Ill answer anyway. We'll take care of this in steps. what would you do overall to make this far less luck based? Uhh probably not give all dem fighters those swordreavers. I think thats the biggest issue here. Apparently in Hector Hard Mode, they are everywhere and even going in and raping poor Zephiel. Hector Normal Mode isnt so bad but still, Jaffar can get owned. what would you do to Jaffar seeing how he gets himself killed 7 times out of 10? Ehh..not much really. Sometimes Jaffar's AI gets a little too bold and doesnt heal himself when he should. what would you do to Zeph to make defending him easier? Actually, in normal mode, he doesnt have that big of a problem. Cant really answer for hard mode. what would you do to Nino to make her not completely worthless but not making her too strong? Nino only really gets attacked by that one monk dude when im playing. She usually ends up just fine. Hypothetically though, id have her a little bit of a higher level and not wielding an Elfire. feel free to only anwser what you want if you don't have a problem with all the issues, also do add in other stuff if you feel like it. There's really not much i would change to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zahlman Posted December 9, 2011 Share Posted December 9, 2011 The only real problem is the HHM swordreavers. Actually, I like the idea that more of the enemies go for Zephiel initially, but they start further away and switch to targeting blue units if they're in range. Jaffar should maybe also have a higher HP threshold for using his Elixir. Nino doesn't require any buffs to survive the chapter. There is no way that you can suck badly enough to let Nino die without Jaffar or Zephiel becoming a problem first, the way things are calibrated at the moment. The only reason to buff Nino would be to improve her as a blue unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted December 9, 2011 Author Share Posted December 9, 2011 well...yeah i was asking if nino needed to be buffed so as a player unit, she wouldn't be so awful. i like the ideas i'm getting so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlegnomes Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 How about this, give Nino enough luck so that the fucking monk doesn't have a chance of critting her. Anyway, how about giving Zephiel enough speed that he isn't doubled by that myrm. That way you still get a little time to get to him if by some chance that guy gets to him. Also, all the stuff said about Jaffar and his suicidal tendencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorena Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 Isn't there a conditions in which Ursula will move on her own if left alone after some time? I recall one of my HHM play-through I was going to ignore here completely, but then around turn 9-10 she started advancing blasting bolting away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zahlman Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 (edited) Isn't there a conditions in which Ursula will move on her own if left alone after some time? I recall one of my HHM play-through I was going to ignore here completely, but then around turn 9-10 she started advancing blasting bolting away. Yes. This is an annoyance, and not really fair to someone encountering it for the first time (the first time I played through HHM, it took me dozens of retries to get something that worked, and then I kinda just derped around because I thought Ursula was totally optional on this map, and then she came out and pwned Zephiel with Bolting on the LAST TURN. Cool story bro, I know...). It's not hard to deal with; just send someone to dispatch her (Bolting is painful, but she's not exactly the toughest boss in the game). But it would be nice to have some kind of warning. Maybe an event cutscene partway through if she hasn't been defeated yet? How about this, give Nino enough luck so that the fucking monk doesn't have a chance of critting her. Oh dear, that happened to you? :( I think it's like a 1% chance as is... no real point in the chance existing, though. Edited December 14, 2011 by zahlman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlegnomes Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Oh dear, that happened to you? :( I think it's like a 1% chance as is... no real point in the chance existing, though. Yeah. I was pretty pissed. Though it is the first time I've ever actually seen it happen. I do agree about the Ursula thing. Granted I haven't payed attention to anything besides gameplay for this game in a long time, but I think there's usually a scene before something major happens, or maybe I'm just thinking of FE6 telling you you missed a gaiden and FE12's telling you about reinforcements like a turn before hand. Really though, I kinda like BBD. It actually feels kinda like a rescue mission, as opposed to most defense maps which feel kinda like a route map with a minor side requirement and a set turn limit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zahlman Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 It actually feels kinda like a rescue mission, as opposed to most defense maps which feel kinda like a route map with a minor side requirement and a set turn limit. Or a defeat-boss map. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorena Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Here are some ideas. Give the enemies luck to lower Jaffar's crit rate. Give the monk attacking Nino more magic to kill Nino faster. Have the Druid with the earth Seal advance upon Zephel. Reduce unit deployment by 1. Have the thieves come out 1 or 2 turns sooner. Surround Ursula with a druid instead of 4 mercenaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 (edited) Here are some ideas. Give the enemies luck to lower Jaffar's crit rate. Give the monk attacking Nino more magic to kill Nino faster. Have the Druid with the earth Seal advance upon Zephel. Reduce unit deployment by 1. Have the thieves come out 1 or 2 turns sooner. Surround Ursula with a druid instead of 4 mercenaries. The idea is to make this chapter less luck based, not more luck based. Certainly, making it so that a Druid kills Zephiel on turn 5 would possibly make it impossible without complicated rescue-dropping with Ninian. Edited December 16, 2011 by Anouleth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zahlman Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I think that was meant to be a joke. An impossible chapter has no luck component. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Jim Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Firstly, I would remove the swordreaver fighters near Jaffar and give them something like steel/hand axes instead. This way, Jaffar will actually have a good shot at surviving because the fighters' hit will suck against him. As for Zephiel, I'd increase his stats so that he has the following parameters: NAME LV1 LV2 MHP POW SKL SPD LCK DEF RES CON Zephiel 15 00 40 14 17 16 10 13 10 07 The above parameters would allow Zephiel to never get doubled by any of the enemies near him, and will also allow him to absorb a few blows. 27 atk with his silver sword ain't bad either. About Nino: Like a lot of people said, Nino isn't really all that threatened. It's just a monk that can't kill her before she chugs an elixir to save herself. The only reason I'd bother to buff Nino was to make her worth using as a player unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlegnomes Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) That seems a little overkill for Zephiel. EDIT: Just looked up his stats, and if my memory is right, those stats would put him at 8RKOed by the mercs and very possibly one rounding the fighters while facing next to no chance of dying against anything except maybe the swordreaver/slayer ones, but do they ever actually get to him? Edited December 17, 2011 by bottlegnomes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zahlman Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 while facing next to no chance of dying against anything except maybe the swordreaver/slayer ones, but do they ever actually get to him? IIRC they get to him pretty quickly unless Jaffar happens to distract him, and you don't really want that to happen. If we're replacing those weapons then Zephiel doesn't need a buff. Unless maybe you also take away his Elixir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlegnomes Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 IIRC they get to him pretty quickly unless Jaffar happens to distract him, and you don't really want that to happen. If we're replacing those weapons then Zephiel doesn't need a buff. Unless maybe you also take away his Elixir. Really? I don't think I've ever actually seen them get to Zeph. Or at least the ones that do tend to get 2HKOed by him and usually don't even land a hit. I'll defer to people with more experience there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted December 19, 2011 Author Share Posted December 19, 2011 Really? I don't think I've ever actually seen them get to Zeph. Or at least the ones that do tend to get 2HKOed by him and usually don't even land a hit. I'll defer to people with more experience there. i've changed the swordslayers/reavers for killer axes as of now. but i've never seen anyone get to Zeph(as i normally'd restart when jaffar dies) except for a single fighter that got two hit killed and didn't touch Zeph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 I've had a Silver Sword Merc doubling and ORKOing Zeph. :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlegnomes Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 i've changed the swordslayers/reavers for killer axes as of now. but i've never seen anyone get to Zeph(as i normally'd restart when jaffar dies) except for a single fighter that got two hit killed and didn't touch Zeph. I like that. Keeps them relatively dangerous, but makes it so Jaffar has a pretty low chance of dying before you get to him. I've had a Silver Sword Merc doubling and ORKOing Zeph. :/ Yeah, fuck him. If he didn't double, I'd be fine with him, since he doesn't get to him until like turn 8, but ORKO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) If you gonna buff Zeph, HF, enough AS not to get doubled by that Merc is sufficient. ORKO is a bit ridiculous, but one hit of the Silver Sword is warranted if you haven't gotten to him by turn 8 yet. Granted, I played HHM back in my "sucking at FE days" but it'd be nice for the less experienced players to have some leeway should they attempt HHM. Edited December 20, 2011 by Luminescent Blade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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