Match Up Chart V2.0

[Kaoz]

I remember there being some interest in the first version of the BBR Match Up Chart? Anyway, here's the second version, released a few hours ago in case anyone is curious.

http://www.smashboar...ad.php?t=316173

MK vs Pika is still even

[Alkaidism]

From what stealth was saying, the pikachu boards got every matchup ratio they argued for. So I'm not surprised considering ESAM and several others think pika v mk is even.

[mmKALLL]

Ganondorf has a fresh and clean -100. Yeaaah!

It takes a single warlock punch to turn that around.

[Junkhead]

Ganondorf is the strongest character in the game.

[marthfan1999]

Pika vs Marth being even is so untrue. Not only does Pikachu lose his excellent CG against Marth, but he gets totally walled/outspaced by Marth in every possible way. Pikachu is going to have a really hard time to get through Marth. Thunder jolts wont be much of any help, since any player who is slightly experienced with the match up will simply powershield them. Debate me if you want, but I certainly dont find Pikachu vs MK to be even simply because of the 0-50% CG Pikachu has. MK is going to stay in the air and wall Pika with dairs and added with Pikachus bad grab range, he wont be grabbing MK easily.

There are many other strange changes that have no real explanation. DKs MUs also dropped drastically. Poor ape =/

What changes to you guys have a hard time understanding? I would like to hear more about KALLLucas's opinions since he seems to be one of the few people with real knowledge about SSBB on these boards. What do you think of Lucas's new MUs?

Edited January 5, 2012 by marthfan1999

[dondon151]

I would like to hear more about KALLLucas's opinions since he seems to be one of the few people with real knowledge about SSBB on these boards.

Your talking to a guy who thinks that tiers and matchups don't matter significantly. I'd take his opinion with a grain of salt.

[marthfan1999]

Your talking to a guy who thinks that tiers and matchups don't matter significantly. I'd take his opinion with a grain of salt.

I would like to hear more reasoning from your part about why you think so (or you could quote some of his posts). After being the one who stalked these boards for while, I have yet to notice anything similar to the things that you stated about him. In the end, match-ups and tier list positions do not matter THAT MUCH. Yes, the tier list is the most accurate depiction of the ranking of the characters and I fully support it as long as the makers of it are knowledgeable enough to be in that position. And no, I am not one of those "tiers R 4 QUEERS" ignorant type of fools. What I want to say is that when using a character, what matters more than their placement in the tier list is YOUR ability to use the character to its fullest and overcome bad match ups. Just as an example, Fow recently won a major Californian tournament using Ness (a characters that once used to be worse than Lucas). He beat present top level players such as DEFH, Tyrant and Tearbear who are all supposed to be experienced with the match up.

You also shouldn't be looking blindly at the tierlist when comparing characters due to the fact that tierlists change over time. Hell, who knows if some really talented player starts using Sheik (Izaw ain't that good) and makes her move to the top of middle tier. A character like Shiek has lots of potential that only a few good players have exploited close to the fullest. Characters like ZSS, Fox and Wolf have had this happen during the history of competitive Brawl.

So yeah, I'll go to sleep now since its almost 5 AM over here and I just felt like writing stuff here at these boards. I dont exactly know what KALLLucas has been talking about but I doubt that he doesn't consider tierlists or MUs to matter as much as what they actually do.

[mmKALLL]

Yay for european players and therefore less lag online

Aside from that, my name is actually a fad revolving around the Smash parts of the boards - I main Marth and sometimes use Falco/Snake/Ganondorf. I barely have ever touched Lucas and don't care about his other match-ups than those against my characters.

As a low/mid level competetive player my point with the tier lists was mostly that it only is applicable for high/top level play where it's assumed that people don't make silly mistakes over spacing or shielding and are know their characters' match-ups. That's the main reason for using Ganondorf at all in lower levels of play even semi-competetively - the opponent might make a mistake or not be familiar with the MU, both of which Ganondorf quickly punishes - and it's a heavy punishment. Another thing is underestimating or having a mindset "I can't lose to this char/player, he's so slow/bad." I believe that tiers exist, but are mostly rather pointless since at high level you don't need to look at things like MU-scorings - you need to have every single MU down instead. "Diddy dropped in the tier list so he must be worse" even though it's the same character - I don't think that that's what people actually think, but I sure see a lot of people picking a character with no other base than it having a good spot on the tier list. And that's fine - at least you know the character assumedly has a lot of more potential over someone in the low tier.

You might want to see the topic about MK banned. Several of my opinions have slightly changed, but it's probably the one where I've had the longest posts in (longer posts sometimes mean less quality though, lol).

Aside from me - Kaoz follows the happenings of the Smash world much more closely than me, atlhough doesn't attend offline tournaments and people like PKL and Eryth are much better as players than me. Myself? I'm around top 25 in Finland. It's pretty good (relative to the average of all the people I've played), but to anyone in middle Europe or US I would probably be a casual player lol.

Edited January 5, 2012 by KALLLucas