FE5 Olwen Or Eyrios?

[Othin]

Going A route means your Pugi time is cut in half. There are plenty of reasons to do that besides Eyrios; B route is not at all the default.

Edited January 18, 2012 by Othin

[Anouleth]

Going A route means your Pugi time is cut in half. There are plenty of reasons to do that besides Eyrios; B route is not at all the default.

From what I've heard, B Route is generally less pleasant, what with a map with FoW and forests everywhere. Plus, the characters in B Route are supposed to be generally inferior (lol, Shanam and Miranda versus Sleuf and Misha).

[Psych]

How does the B route have Fog of War? Shanam gives you bargain, so that's helpful somewhat. Misha requires a Sleep Staff use.

The only thing A may have is Sleuf with his A rank in staves, but if you're playing casual or decide not to warp skip, B is generally a little better.

[Othin]

For ranked runs, A is far better, not only because of Seluf but because of the extra Warp staffs and faster objectives. Also, being able to skip getting Olwen saves a lot of time in 11x.

It doesn't sound like those are the main point here, though.

[Icon of Sin]

Misha requires a Sleep Staff use.

Or you can use one of the Sleep Swords you get from Eyrios' three Social Knights the chapter before. Sleep one of those, capture the sleeping knight, and you can even try to capture the other two knights with the Sleep Sword by trading it around.

I'm not saying it's easy, but it's doable and pretty funny, plus it essentially gives you 28 uses of 1 RNG Sleep Staff.

[dondon151]

But if Olwen gets Ambush, which turns up one chapter after she joins and she has no real competition for, and Eyrios doesn't get Wrath, which turns up eight chapters before he joins and is in demand, then Olwen wins by a long-shot. Durability is kind of redundant when you can kill nearly anyone without receiving a counter. While Eyrios' survivability is through the roof, he can't do anything special; and crusader scrolls make his availability hurt all the more.

Olwen isn't guaranteed to kill any enemies before getting attacked. Ambush is great when paired with Dime Thunder, but one miss and Olwen is toast. Dime Thunder has an unspectacular 70 base hit, and it's not a given that King Sword Leaf is going to be glued to her all the time. When offense is so freely available (with awesome prfs and high PCCs being handed out like candy), Eyrios's defensive abilities are pretty impressive.

It's not like his offense is bad, either. Thoron does huge damage (but the WT is a problem), but the bigger point is that Eyrios can wield all swords, from effective weapons to Master Swords to Fire Swords.

A minor point, but recruiting Eyrios means your Pugi time is cut in half.

A second Pugi is redundant; I've never even gone through the first Pugi on any playthrough.

The only thing A may have is Sleuf with his A rank in staves, but if you're playing casual or decide not to warp skip, B is generally a little better.

No it's not. B route is pretty frustrating for a casual player.

[Kriemhild]

Yes but most people won't want to raise a unit then dispose of them. If you're going to use Olwen you might as well go the whole way.

That plus, they wouldn't give something like Ambush to a unit and then kill them off.

Also, is the first counter attack counted as a Pursuit attack in FE5? IIRC the Calculations page said it wasn't.

It isn't. In fact, even if the counter attacker activates Continue, it still isn't a Pursuit attack and doesn't get PCC bonus. After that, however, if the unit attacks again based on the HIGHER SPEED, it's a Pursuit attack, and if Continue activates for that, it's also still a Pursuit attack.

Regarding the whole Olwen vs Eyrios debate, these arguments keep popping up way too frequently, and I think it ultimately comes down to preference. Whether you prefer Olwen's early availability, her Prf weapons, and high PCC, or Eyrios's Solar skill, and amazing base stats, which also allow him to use Thoron and every non-Prf sword.

I personally prefer Olwen, because her earlier join time gives her more time to utilize scrolls, and she is amazing with DaimThunder. Even if you don't want her to risk missing, she can still use tomes like Fire or Thunder, which would raise her AS to help her dodge, while her 4 PCC allows her to finish off enemies even with those weak tomes. And DaimThunder+Ambush is obviously a really amazing combination, and Holy Sword lets her slay the last few chapters. Eyrios can't get Auto-Continue without using close-ranged swords that hit Defense, and he can't critical after Pursuit even if he's using a Killing Edge.

But like I said, I think it's impossible to declare one of Olwen/Eyrios being objectively superior to the other. They both have their own different unique traits, that are preferred by different people. Then you have other issues like scrolls and skill books (specifically, Wrath and Ambush) that are involved, and it's not set in stone where they should be going.

[Anouleth]

How does the B route have Fog of War?

I assumed the forest map has FoW, but maybe I'm wrong. Fair enough.

Shanam gives you bargain, so that's helpful somewhat.

From what I've heard, again, buying things isn't that great in FE5 because enemies usually come with weapons far better than those avilable in shops.

[dondon151]

Eyrios can't get Auto-Continue without using close-ranged swords that hit Defense, and he can't critical after Pursuit even if he's using a Killing Edge.

Neither of these drawbacks are significant because Eyrios can kill most enemies just fine by virtue of double attacking.

But like I said, I think it's impossible to declare one of Olwen/Eyrios being objectively superior to the other.

Of course it's possible. This is a statement that tries to handwave one of the facts of the game and tries to pass it off as a matter of subjectivity. Like, you know, "there's no such thing as a dumb question."

They both have their own different unique traits, that are preferred by different people. Then you have other issues like scrolls and skill books (specifically, Wrath and Ambush) that are involved, and it's not set in stone where they should be going.

The problem here is that Olwen's only significant unique traits are DT and more availability. The latter trait doesn't even matter because the player can use Olwen until Eyrios shows up, kill her off, and the game won't penalize the player in terms of the survival rank. The former trait is superfluous in the presence of other offensive monsters (Othin, Asvel, Dagda, Fin, Felgus, Dean) and is also severely overhyped - the Ambush/DT combo does not make Olwen invincible on EP, and Eyrios can kill most enemies in the game just fine with a variety of swords.

[CrashGordon94]

That plus, they wouldn't give something like Ambush to a unit and then kill them off.

I don't think the Olwen killers were giving her Ambush, but other than that that's what I thought.

I'm just curious, isn't killing off a unit you've trained up at least a little bit of a problem for you guys? It just seems like a bizarre concept to me.

It isn't. In fact, even if the counter attacker activates Continue, it still isn't a Pursuit attack and doesn't get PCC bonus. After that, however, if the unit attacks again based on the HIGHER SPEED, it's a Pursuit attack, and if Continue activates for that, it's also still a Pursuit attack.

That's what I thought. I just asked because Queenie said that Eyrios can't crit on counters, which would suggest that the first counter hit is a Pursuit attack. If not then Olwen and Eyrios crit the same (more or less, given that they might have different base Critical values) on non-Pursuit attacks, first counter included.

From what I've heard, again, buying things isn't that great in FE5 because enemies usually come with weapons far better than those avilable in shops.

If it's anything, everyone I hear talking about this game says the same thing, with only mentions given to buying statboosters/S Drinks and maybe the occasional weapon here and there.

[PuffPuff]

No it's not. B route is pretty frustrating for a casual player.

But it's still easier.

[dondon151]

But it's still easier.

uhhhhhhh

between casually rushing a throne and trying to work my way around random warp tiles, berserk staves, and untraversable terrain, i'd gladly pick the former

[Renall]

I don't think the Olwen killers were giving her Ambush, but other than that that's what I thought.

I'm just curious, isn't killing off a unit you've trained up at least a little bit of a problem for you guys? It just seems like a bizarre concept to me.

I actually had an idea for a Jeigan-style character who dies as part of the storyline. What I always wondered was, what difference would it make if, say, Marcus died in chapter 21 of FE6? Like, was killed in the story, gone, cannot return, cannot be prevented. Let's say the average player would bench him by that point in FE6 Hard Mode. Would it matter at all to his consideration as a character? Him dying in 21 doesn't change his indispensable utility in the early game. If we put stat boosters into him, are they really "wasted" if they allow Marcus to continue doing decently up until the point where we might bench him anyway? If this theoretical Jeigan-type guy I'm thinking of is useful enough before his death, would it make any sense to say "Man, I'm not using him/not putting resources into him if he's going to die?" Surely not every useful character needs to be deployed all the way to the Endgame map just to be worthy of resources.

It's not quite the same, but using Olwen before Eyrios just to dump her for him poses a similar question: If Olwen + Ambush is the best possible use you can get out of Ambush from 12 through 16 (I'm not necessarily saying it is; you could also give it to Asvel or something), why not put it on her, even knowing she'll be killed off later? And if you're not giving her Ambush, you should at least make as much use of her personal tome as humanly possible, since it's going away when she does.

Still, the point is valid even if most people prefer Route A: On Route B, Eyrios doesn't exist.

[Psych]

There are a total of 6 warp tiles on B. If you have a map, they're easily avoided or you can use save states. Plus, A route has that annoying Cyas with Berserk and a bunch of leadership stars.

[Othin]

Cyas isn't the one with Berserk; the Dark Bishop in 16B is.

[RNG Princess]

So route B has a lot of trees? Oops, I guess it will be perfect for Eda ;w;

Edited January 19, 2012 by Queen_Kittylincia

[Jave]

So route B has a lot of trees? Oops, I guess it will be perfect for Eda ;w;

"A lot" is putting it mildly. Nearly the whole map are tree tiles save for the fort in the middle and some parts near the edges. What sucks in addition to the invisible warp tiles is that at first glance, it's hard to tell which trees slow you down and which ones act as walls.

[Thor Odinson]

That was... quite an unpleasant chapter, to put it mildly.

[dondon151]

If you have a map, they're easily avoided or you can use save states.

Uh, OK. If you want to go there, then I'll warpskip the maps on the other route.

[Thor Odinson]

Going B route is not worth those extra uses of Pugi. Seriously. It's just so...urgh. I went there and I regretted it. Especially when I found out I can't have Amalda. Staff user want!

Sinking all my favouritism and scrollspam into Machua and Mareeta and making them into killing machines and overtaking even Pugi!Othin's awesome has nothing to do with it either.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Luminescent Blade

[Silvercrow]

The forest chapter in B route is just indescribably tedious and bad. Urgh.

[Esaka]

I do route B for Pugi and Bargain all the time.

I have become used to the troll trees.