Concerning Part 2

[StinDuh]

I've played through Radiant Dawn countless times. And every time I get to Part 2, I'm still confused on why it's included into the story line.

It's all about Crimea in a story that's all(save Part 2) about Begnion. Part Two focuses on the political instability of Crimea, three years after Elincia's ascension. Parts One, Three, and Four all have to do with the Begnion Senators abusing their powers to influence as many people as they can -- Daein, The Laguz Alliance, eventually all of Tellius. So where does Part Two fit in this story?

Did the Bengion senators have something to do with Ludveck's rebellion? Was Ludveck another noble, influenced by the Begnion senators to take over Crimea, giving them more land to control and power over more people?

I just don't understand the point to Part Two in the overall story of Radiant Dawn. I may have missed something; I don't pay attention the story all that much after I've played it a couple times. But this always intrigues me.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

It's all about Crimea in a story that's all(save Part 2) about Begnion.

This may be the problem. You seem to be looking at it as if Begnion's the one and only focus of the entire story. I'm not sure what the developers were intending to do by dividing the story into 4 parts like this but I thought the parts focused on

1: Micaiah, new characters and the rebuilding of Daein.

2: Elincia, old characters and the rebuilding of Crimea.

3: Greil Mercenaries, remainder of old characters and the Laguz.

4: Teams, end.

There's no need to include Begnion in every single part of the story.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Sirius

[StinDuh]

This may be the problem. You seem to be looking at it as if Begnion's the one and only focus of the entire story.

But aren't they?

The Begnion Senators set up Part 1. They had Izuka find Pelleas and use him to take Daein away from themselves, but created a bond between them when they forced Pelleas into the Blood Pact. This set them up as "allies" so Daein could think they had their own country back, while Begnion kept them on a leash.

Part Three revolves around the Begnion Senators and their interests in obliterating the Laguz Alliance. They fight the Laguz, quite ruthlessly, in order to take control over them. They also use the Blood Pact they set up in Part One to help them fight this fight. It's obvious the Begnion Senators want to destroy the Laguz Alliance so there is no more contesting over their freedoms. To do this, they imprison the Empress, cut off Sephiran, and manipulate Zelgius.

Part Four it all comes together. Sephiran awakens Ashera because the world wont stop fighting. Ashera uses her beloved Begnion to pass judgement against the followers of Yune. The Blood Pact(or pacts, concerning Naesala's) end up becoming a liability, since now that everyone is stone, Daein and Naesala have no reason to fight for Begnion, but now have perfect reason to fight against them. The Begnion Senators(ironically, if I must say) essentially caused all the fighting because they put their dirty little hands into everyone's business. Everyone's except, it seems, Crimea's.

It's like creating a game about The American Civil War, and then adding a random bit in the middle about Canada.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

But aren't they?

In one interpretation, yes. If the focus of the story was purely Begnion as you think, then yeah Crimea's portion of the story really wouldn't exist nor would it be necessary to split the game into parts since the game would focus on one single enemy while getting multiple nations on your side as opposed to the opposite of this one could argue that exists in the other games (for example Marth taking on several conquered nations before ultimately taking down Doluna).

[StinDuh]

In one interpretation, yes. If the focus of the story was purely Begnion as you think, then yeah Crimea's portion of the story really wouldn't exist nor would it be necessary to split the game into parts since the game would focus on one single enemy while getting multiple nations on your side as opposed to the opposite of this one could argue that exists in the other games (for example Marth taking on several conquered nations before ultimately taking down Doluna).

Then what's your interpretation of it? All parts stand alone as separate entities in themselves with little connection to eachother at all?

To me, the reason of splitting the game into parts is to show how a common enemy is fought by separate groups of armies. Part One and Three have the exact same enemy: Begnion. Part Four introduces a little more depth, since the overall enemy is Ashera. But the enemy of Part Two is Ludveck, a rebellious Crimean Noble, seemingly untied to the Begnion Senators, which makes Part Two an outlier.

Unless, as you imply, I am missing the overall point of Radiant Dawn. In which case, I ask you explain your opinion a little more.

Edited March 12, 2012 by StinDuh

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Then what's your interpretation of it? All parts stand alone as separate entities in themselves with little connection to eachother at all?

Something like that. At least in the case of Part 1 anyway where the title is "Silver Haired Maiden" which is implies the focus of this part is on Micaiah much like how the focus of your typical Fire Emblem game is on the lord whose story you're playing. Part 2's title is not something I'd read too much into but you could say it's implying that the story's about a country and its King/Queen... and it is. I could go on with this but I really don't want to read too much into these titles.

To me, the reason of splitting the game into parts is to show how a common enemy is fought by separate groups of armies. Part One and Three have the exact same enemy: Begnion. Part Four introduces a little more depth, since the overall enemy is Ashera. But the enemy of Part Two is Ludveck, a rebellious Crimean Noble, seemingly untied to the Begnion Senators, which makes Part Two an outlier.

It's a plausible reason. I dunno about you though but I think the split becomes more necessary when the game's divided into parts that are mostly self-contained.

Unless, as you imply, I am missing the overall point of Radiant Dawn. In which case, I ask you explain your opinion a little more.

I'm not with the developers and I haven't read any of the interviews so I don't know what the developers were intending to do with the split as said before. My point is...

Your interpretation of Begnion being the absolute primary focus of Radiant Dawn is just one interpretation and may not be the correct one. The game is a sequel to Path of Radiance and because every nation and characters from that game were brought back as well as some being added. They may have wanted to put some focus into the new characters and "protagonist" (this is where part 1 comes in) and then move back to the recurring characters and the protagonist of the previous game (part 3 here) but if that's all that were done, you'd still be missing those of Crimea until their respective chapters in parts 3 and 4 which wouldn't say much about what's happened with Elincia who was a pretty big part of the Prequel's story and thus to expand on this and not just bring her back with no explanation for her character development, Part 2 comes into place.

tl;dr: While the Begnion bastards may be quite the antagonist bunch in this game... since when is the plot of a game ever entirely focused on a group of dumb looking antagonists like them? Why rule out that the parts are just self-contained stories of the respective lords with bits and pieces that tie in together in part 3 and a conclusion where they all unite in Part 4?

Edited March 12, 2012 by Sirius

[StinDuh]

But you don't think it's weird, at all, that Part Two is the only part without Begnion as it's primary enemy?

[Dr. Tarrasque]

But you don't think it's weird, at all, that Part Two is the only part without Begnion as it's primary enemy?

No. when I first beat Part 2, I saw it as just some "Civil War" and didn't know who or what is the overall main antagonist yet. After beating the game, I didn't think much about the story and just saw the parts as mostly self-contained portions on the game focusing on its respective main character like your typical games do. That's all.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Sirius

[StinDuh]

No. when I first beat Part 2, I saw it as just some "Civil War" and didn't know who or what is the overall main antagonist yet. After beating the game, I didn't think much about the story and just saw the parts as mostly self-contained portions on the game focusing on its respective main character like your typical games do. That's all.

Hm... I guess I can't say we share the same viewpoint then... Because I see the game as one huge story, not separate entities.

[Othin]

It seems to me like a bit of a side story, a prologue for other characters that become important later but would seem awkward just jumping in when they do in Part 3/4.

Edited March 12, 2012 by Othin

[Into Oblivion]

I see what you mean. If you look at it what way, part 2 is pretty meaningless. But at the same time, I'd say you also need it. You could look at Part 1 as Point A and Part 3 as Point B. I'd call Part 2 the line that gets you there. Plus, the chapter in Part 3 where Elincia decides to enforce Crimea's neutral stance seems quite a display of confidence, which is something she seemed to gain from part 2, so they probably wanted to show how she really becomes a queen if that makes sense.

But still, you have an interesting point.

[StinDuh]

It seems to me like a bit of a side story, a prologue for other characters that become important later but would seem awkward just jumping in when they do in Part 3/4.

This is kind of what I think, I guess you could say. It kind of looks like IS created Part Two to give the Crimean Knights play-time they couldn't give them elsewhere.

Edited March 12, 2012 by StinDuh

[Loki Laufeyson]

Was this inspired by the discussion in that plot arch deal in the General FE board?

Anyway, Part 2 is indeed filler. The only real point to the plot overall, that it had was to explain that Leanne was looking for Ike. The end of Part 2 explains where Ike had been. This wasnt necessary. 5 chapters of stuff wasnt necessary to explain this. But it was an excellent excuse to show what Elincia has been doing, how Crimea has been coming along, and what happened with the characters from the previous game. The whole bit about citizenry having issues with Elincia's rule never comes up again. In fact, most of part 2 is indeed a Big Lipped Alligator Moment. The only time we ever hear about that whole business again is in Chapter 9 of part 3. Some Begnion jerk off goes "Oi you, didnt you get the supplies yet?" and Jerk Off B goes "Nah. THey just dont have that much. Something about an uprising earlier." Im paraphrasing but i know the bolded part is dead on word-for-word. Srsly, thats all thats ever mentioned about Crimea's issues in Part 2. THATS IT. No one ever talks about it again. Ever.

Is this a bad thing? Not exactly. Part 2, as pointless as it was, ended up being pretty fun to play anyway. We get to see some of our favorite characters again. We get to see Elincia actually doing political crap. (you know, Royals Who Actually Do Something) We get to have that cool ass sky battle in the prologue. We got to see the GMs come in and pull a Big Damn Heroes and it was AWESOME! So yeah it was filler and to a point, a total BLAM. But fuck all if it wasnt pretty cool.

[BrightBow]

Well, during the whole of PoR, Elincia was displayed as kindhearted but very insecure with no visible leadership skills, while it was Ike who was the face of Crimea's liberation. It's like later in Daein where Micaiah was the head of Daein's liberation, rather then the kindhearted, insecure Pellas. The game set's them up as counterparts. Bastian specifically made that comparison, comparing Micaiah to Ike and Pellas to Elincia.

So maybe just like Ike (who considers his comrades his family), has to prove that he is a true hero and leader in contrast to Micaiah (whose leadership is based on the blind fanaticism of her follows), Elincia had to surpass the foolish Pellas as well, growing into an actual leader before Crimea could get involved into the main plot.

Edited March 12, 2012 by BrightBow

[Othin]

Part 2 being a side story does not make it filler.

[StinDuh]

Was this inspired by the discussion in that plot arch deal in the General FE board?

No. I was just playing through Radiant Dawn again. I was on Geoffrey's Charge when I posted this.

Anyway, Part 2 is indeed filler. The only real point to the plot overall, that it had was to explain that Leanne was looking for Ike. The end of Part 2 explains where Ike had been. This wasnt necessary. 5 chapters of stuff wasnt necessary to explain this. But it was an excellent excuse to show what Elincia has been doing, how Crimea has been coming along, and what happened with the characters from the previous game. The whole bit about citizenry having issues with Elincia's rule never comes up again. In fact, most of part 2 is indeed a Big Lipped Alligator Moment. The only time we ever hear about that whole business again is in Chapter 9 of part 3. Some Begnion jerk off goes "Oi you, didnt you get the supplies yet?" and Jerk Off B goes "Nah. THey just dont have that much. Something about an uprising earlier." Im paraphrasing but i know the bolded part is dead on word-for-word. Srsly, thats all thats ever mentioned about Crimea's issues in Part 2. THATS IT. No one ever talks about it again. Ever.

That's what I thought. There's not much real story to Part 2.

Is this a bad thing? Not exactly. Part 2, as pointless as it was, ended up being pretty fun to play anyway. We get to see some of our favorite characters again. We get to see Elincia actually doing political crap. (you know, Royals Who Actually Do Something) We get to have that cool ass sky battle in the prologue. We got to see the GMs come in and pull a Big Damn Heroes and it was AWESOME! So yeah it was filler and to a point, a total BLAM. But fuck all if it wasnt pretty cool.

I can't say I agree with you here though. I don't care for the gameplay of Part 2 just as much I don't care for it's pointless story. Except for the awesome sky battle, like you said. None of the Crimean Knights were my favorite. The chapters are freaking annoying to play. Part Two is definitely my least favorite part by a longshot. I dread finishing Part One because I enjoy it so much and dislike part two so much. I wish I could just skip it and go straight to Part Three so that I could have Ike and the bad ass Greil Mercenaries again.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Part 2 being a side story does not make it filler.

Side stories usually have some impact on the overall plot of a story. Part 2? Not so much.

I don't care for the gameplay of Part 2

But Elincia's Gambit was such a bad ass chapter!

Really...the main point of Part 2? Training those particular characters. Namely Haar, Nephenee, Marcia, and the laguz guys on that team. Yeah. Thats what i think.

[Othin]

Or an impact on important characters.

The finale doesn't have to take on every little thing that's happened throughout a story.

[FalconVegeta1986]

I might be wrong, but wasn't part 2 not supposed to exist in the first place?

[StinDuh]

Or an impact on important characters.

The finale doesn't have to take on every little thing that's happened throughout a story.

Doesn't it though? The point of a story is to build up to the ending. Part One and Three build up to part 4. Part two... just kinda... sits there.

I might be wrong, but wasn't part 2 not supposed to exist in the first place?

I'd put money on it. It seriously looks like they put it in to give the Crimean Knights some time.

[aku chi]

Doesn't it though? The point of a story is to build up to the ending. Part One and Three build up to part 4. Part two... just kinda... sits there.

There are plenty of artistic works that tell multiple unconnected stories (the film "The Godfather Part II" is the first that comes to mind). The good ones contain disparate stories that are linked thematically or in some other way. While I would never claim that Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn has a particularly good plot, Part II can be seen as a counterpart to Part 1. In Part 1 you lead a rebellion. In Part II, you take the other side of a rebellion in a different nation. The two parts are also linked causally; Queen Elincia's reaction to the events of Part 1 are the spark that ignites the Crimean rebellion of Part 2. In fact, you can interpret the plot of RD as an escalation of an initial conflict into increasingly vast conflicts.

[StinDuh]

Part II can be seen as a counterpart to Part 1. In Part 1 you lead a rebellion. In Part II, you take the other side of a rebellion in a different nation. The two parts are also linked causally; Queen Elincia's reaction to the events of Part 1 are the spark that ignites the Crimean rebellion of Part 2. In fact, you can interpret the plot of RD as an escalation of an initial conflict into increasingly vast conflicts.

Putting it this way, it's not a side story at all. Still, I don't like the story of Part II. And it still doesn't fit with the main enemy of Begnion thing.

Edited March 12, 2012 by StinDuh

[Loki Laufeyson]

It can fit with the Begnion thing. I mean, you'd have to really kinda dig for it though. Like Part 2 establishes that Elincia cant take shit lying down anymore and in part 3 she takes a more active stance on things when Begnion starts shit on Crimea soil.

Like i said, part 2 does have a lot of filler elements and BLAM going on but it works well. Ive never said it was bad or so pointless it shouldnt exist. I think IS was just trying to show, not tell.

[Snapdragon]

I tend to take RD and PoR's plot as one entity (otherwise RD has, like, 5 people with characterization,) So, I kinda see Part II as a conclusion to Crimea's story in PoR. Actually, I kind of interpret the entire game as the results of the Daein/Crimea war. Part 1 is Daein rebuilding, Part 2 is Crimea rebuilding, Part 3 is what the Greil Mercs and Crimea's closest allies are up to (and more stuff about Daein trying to trying to deal with being independent again), Part 4 is the effect of all the chaos from war and all that crap from part 1-3 on the medallion.

[Othin]

At the end of FE9, Elincia takes over as Queen of Crimea. We needed to see that sometime before she showed up in the middle of Part 3. Show, don't tell: It would not have been enough to just mention that she had been ruling the country, but her actions as ruled needed to be seen in action. That was necessary to conclude the previous story and continue on to where this one wound up.

Similarly, the game could have potentially skipped over Part 1 and simply told the player that Micaiah freed Daein from Begnion. Would that be enough? Of course not. We needed to see the story ourselves.