Rate the Unit, Day 20: Treck

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

So, Treck...

He comes at base with 7 AS, 1 AS faster than base Alan (and I have a bit of an issue with Alan's base SPD), while Alan has already gotten a fair number of levels if you've raised him and probably is 8 or 9 AS by that point; in addition, Alan has 9-10 ATK as opposed to Treck's 8 ATK. To boot, Alan has better growths -- 45% STR, 45% SPD, and 25% DEF compared to Treck's 40% STR, 35% SPD, and 30% DEF. I find him better than Ward since he can attack and not be ORKO'd on counter, and also helps on his free deployment chapter like Ward does on his 2 effective free deployment chapters (in fact, I used him to ferry Roy up to the boss right after recruiting Zealot on LTC). However, I prefer Dorothy because of her better growths than Treck (50% STR, 45% SPD, IIRC) and her ease of training with 2 range (even if 2 range has EP issues), so his rating falls between 2 and 4. His horse puts him at the upper range of that, so...

3.5/10

Edited March 23, 2012 by Kngt_Of_Titania

[Anouleth]

Even if Dorothy has a better strength and speed growth, it takes some time for her to develop any kind of lead over Treck. Before promotion, Treck's strength is always better and remains better until about 20/10, which is the first time where Dorothy can reliably claim a strength lead.

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

Even if Dorothy has a better strength and speed growth, it takes some time for her to develop any kind of lead over Treck. Before promotion, Treck's strength is always better and remains better until about 20/10, which is the first time where Dorothy can reliably claim a strength lead.

It's more the SPD lead in late game (obviously that takes until around 11-12 for her to overtake him and until promotion for a notable lead because Dorothy's bases in SPD/STR are slightly worse than his) and the potential to be useful in Ilia without possibly provoking the game to send you to Sacae by training her that I find gives her the edge. I rate Treck just ever so slightly below Dorothy, and honestly it's late-game potential if both are trained that I think justifies that. The problem with comparing early-game combat performance is that Marcus and Zealot see so much of the combat that your main goal seems to be to get the other characters to pick off enemies to level as much as possible or to take over offense when they ferry Roy/Rutger/etc.

I also have minor issues with using him as a rescue bot because he has 3 SPD when carrying somebody at base, climbing slowly to like 7 SPD at 20/1. His EP as a cav isn't exactly the hottest either since he doesn't quite have Alan's STR or Lance's SPD (partially due to having lower growths and partially due to moderate under-leveledness compared to them) -- I would try to avoid him getting attacked in EP in favor of better EP-combat units much like I would Dorothy.

Edited March 23, 2012 by Kngt_Of_Titania

[Loki Laufeyson]

Im not really arsed with this guy so the pros and cons list isnt happening this time.

I do know that i like Noah a lot more. He just seems to be better in the long run. I tried using Treck once...i just dont really even...

Im neutral voting here. 5/10

[Integrity]

Okie-do, fellas, IMPORTANT FUCKING POST.

After some thought and some consultation with My #1 Man, I'm changing the thing about the routes. All routes possible can and should be considered, but no penalties for not existing on some routes (Dayan/Juno/Echidna/whatever).

To this end, I'm going to give anybody who wants to a little bit of time to penalize Zealot for Sacae if they're so inclined. I don't think anybody else's score would change at all - and I don't think most of you will even take me up on this - but I'm extending the offer at least.

Have ats.

[Culpa]

Treck is really just kind of meh. He isn't going to hurt your team, but he really isn't going to make it any better. He's not going to double anything everyone else isn't doubling. He will have solid hits but not good enough to justify it when he only gets one hit, but at least he has a good chance to hit with passable skill combined with good luck. His main draw is he's one of the tankiest usable characters , he has a horse so he's always able to be where he needs to be beat on, and of course the standard cav WTC. That said his resist is terrible but then again at 20/20 he is 2 less resist then equal level Alan, so its not like the one or two resist at most is going to make much difference.

5/10 he's kinda there most the time, but if you want an armor hey at 20/20 he's only 2 def short of Wendy.

[ShinRPGamer]

Treck's pretty average to me. Average stats, avarage growths, even has an average personality.

5/10

Edited March 24, 2012 by Gmls710

[Anouleth]

It's more the SPD lead in late game (obviously that takes until around 11-12 for her to overtake him and until promotion for a notable lead because Dorothy's bases in SPD/STR are slightly worse than his) and the potential to be useful in Ilia without possibly provoking the game to send you to Sacae by training her that I find gives her the edge.

It's been made pretty clear that you're not supposed to consider such things; if going to Sacae is not a negative for Sue/Shin it should not be a positive for Dorothy. That might not have been made absolutely clear in the rules, but I feel like it violates the spirit if not the letter. Certainly, Sue is absolutely better than Dorothy in Ilia because of her superior movement type.

Plus, I don't really get why Dorothy is supposed to be good in Ilia. Usually, Pegasi come at you in small enough numbers that it's very easy to mop them up on player phase. What's more important is rescue-dropping and durability on enemy phase, I think.

I rate Treck just ever so slightly below Dorothy, and honestly it's late-game potential if both are trained that I think justifies that.

I think Treck's lategame potential is better than Dorothy's, personally.

The problem with comparing early-game combat performance is that Marcus and Zealot see so much of the combat that your main goal seems to be to get the other characters to pick off enemies to level as much as possible or to take over offense when they ferry Roy/Rutger/etc.

Or those other units (like Treck) can also ferry them.

I also have minor issues with using him as a rescue bot because he has 3 SPD when carrying somebody at base, climbing slowly to like 7 SPD at 20/1.

Nobody has good speed when rescuing other units?

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

It's been made pretty clear that you're not supposed to consider such things; if going to Sacae is not a negative for Sue/Shin it should not be a positive for Dorothy. That might not have been made absolutely clear in the rules, but I feel like it violates the spirit if not the letter. Certainly, Sue is absolutely better than Dorothy in Ilia because of her superior movement type.

I should be more clear, then; Ilia is good for bow units, for obvious reasons, and is less likely to be chosen the more you level SOME bow units. Dorothy can be leveled up while keeping it easy for you to take the route where she's best. And Integrity just now stated he'll allow considerations of how good each unit is on each route, although my rating hardly is based heavily on this small benefit she has.

Plus, I don't really get why Dorothy is supposed to be good in Ilia. Usually, Pegasi come at you in small enough numbers that it's very easy to mop them up on player phase. What's more important is rescue-dropping and durability on enemy phase, I think.

I tend to prefer heavy offense on PP, so long as rescue-dropping and reasonable durability remain intact. If Dorothy can ORKO a pegasus on Ilia route that Treck cannot, that's one more person who can attack another enemy. Treck just...he doesn't have anything of note besides mobility (his horse). His defense isn't even THAT good, its growth is marginally better than Alan's, its base is...alright, his STR is average, and his SPD is somewhat troubling for when he joins and doesn't have the growth to get out of that rut. Then you face the fact that he can't realistically promote until C13 (or more likely, C15) at the minimum, since Alance will get the first crest, or the fact that he's the sheer definition of mediocre in the Misty Isles, failing to double even the 5 AS Steel Axe users and getting doubled by mercs on counter (although his DEF base makes his a completely different case than Ward). He's not bad, but not good either.

Or those other units (like Treck) can also ferry them.

Nobody has good speed when rescuing other units?

There is ONE time Treck ferrying is something I needed, which I gave him ample credit for in my score: C7, to get Roy the fuck out of the swarm of enemies after he recruits Zealot on turn 2. Marcus/Zealot are best for ferrying much of the game anyways, since that extra MOV adds up over the course of a map (usually they get there a turn quicker than Treck ever could), and they have around 6 AS and like 11 DEF when rescuing. That keeps the warriors out of doubling range and makes mercs (who do double) do like 4x2 damage, or slightly less with WTD. And you can always have them drop Roy/Rutger if you need them to trash enemies on EP, have Roy run ahead of their mounted rescuer, rescue them in mid-move, and lose nothing by doing it. Treck would be allocated to short term rescue chains at best, and fails at that in comparison to Alance.

Again, the difference between my ratings for Dorothy and Treck was 0.5, which is the minimum rating interval I have. So the difference between Treck and Dorothy, potential-wise, is in my eyes almost infinitesimal. I'm splittling hairs, basically.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Kngt_Of_Titania

[dondon151]

Again, the difference between my ratings for Dorothy and Treck was 0.5, which is the minimum rating interval I have. So the difference between Treck and Dorothy, potential-wise, is in my eyes almost infinitesimal. I'm splittling hairs, basically.

makes no sense if treck >>>> dorothy

[Integrity]

Right then, tallying today.

[Mekkah]

treck treck treck treck treck

<3

6/10

(with a bias point btw)

but really who's idea was it to give him E/D ranks? especially when Noah shows up right next to him with C/D. They should have given him D/D so he could at least use Steel Swords and Iron Blades. Treck's kind of like the Lowen of FE6, with meh offenses but good defenses. Except that he also joins late.

He's also the only cavalier with good OA. All the others look like 5 y/os.

Anouleth likes double Ds? What?

4.5/10 horse and bad-ish combat with amazing gonzales support