Naglfar Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 In other words, if magic tomes are one(or two, if you count staves)category rather than three plus staves, then: FE13 magic mechs = FE11 and FE12 magic mechs. ^In FE11 and FE12, dragons take normal damage by thunder because of no magic trinity to differnate the magic tomes. If FE13 dragons are the same way, then no wonder thunder didn't do as much damage to dragons as it did to FE9-10's dragons... ^ Am I right? No, because weapons can still be assigned individual effective bonuses. Remember the rapier? They just decided not to implement it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowjam Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) No, because weapons can still be assigned individual effective bonuses. Remember the rapier? They just decided not to implement it. Rapier is NOT counted into magic mechs, because it's a weapon that's not a magic type... If the rapier is a magic type, then wouldn't it do less damage in normal conditions, as it would involve Mag, rather than Str? What does count into magic mechs is no more and no less than: 1. anima magic, 2.light magic, 3. dark magic, and: 4. staves(has its own magic category) ^ My point is that as the aforementioned non-staves(1-3) categories were combined into one category in FE11 and FE12, rather than three different types in addition to staves, super-effective bonuses involving magic tomes are not possible, but those influenced by Str are still possible in those games, and judging from the scan that Vincent posted, until someone proves otherwise, until the time that moment comes, I have to assume that FE11 and FE12's super-effective system is the same as FE13's... Give me an example that involves magic categories like those mentioned here that does super-effective damage to one or more groups of units without the help of any kind of a magic triangle, then I'll believe you... Edited March 30, 2012 by shadowjam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momo Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 FE6/7's ultimate tomes do extra damage to dragons. That doesn't matter anyway, since it looks like you completely missed the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naglfar Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Rapier is NOT counted into magic mechs, because it's a weapon that's not a magic type... If the rapier is a magic type, then wouldn't it do less damage in normal conditions, as it would involve Mag, rather than Str? What does count into magic mechs is no more and no less than: How do you take someone talking about bonus damage and think they're talking about magic? 1. anima magic, 2.light magic, 3. dark magic, and: 4. staves(has its own magic category) Holy fuck this is poorly set out. ^ My point is that as the aforementioned non-staves(1-3) categories were combined into one category in FE11 and FE12, rather than three different types in addition to staves, super-effective bonuses involving magic tomes are not possible, but those influenced by Str are still possible in those games, and judging from the scan that Vincent posted, until someone proves otherwise, until the time that moment comes, I have to assume that FE11 and FE12's super-effective system is the same as FE13's... Why do you think weapons that work off STR are any different to those that work off MAG? Give me an example that involves magic categories like those mentioned here that does super-effective damage to one or more groups of units without the help of any kind of a magic triangle, then I'll believe you... okay FE10 system: Fire (coded by category): bonus damage versus beasts Thunder (coded by category): bonus damage versus dragons Wind (coded by category): bonus damage versus fliers minus dragons hypothetical bonus damage system with FE13 weapon ranks: Fire/Elfire/etc (coded individually): bonus damage versus beasts, gryphons? Thunder/Elthunder/etc (coded individually): bonus damage versus dragons Wind/Elwind/etc (coded individually): bonus damage versus fliers minus dragons, gryphons? To be honest, I would hazard a guess that even the entire categories of weapons that get the same bonus damage (ie bows) are programmed one by one. I'm not a romhacker so someone else will have to clarify that. My point: effective damage is not tied to weapon type, which should be plainly obvious given the extensive list of weapons in every game that get special bonuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arvilino Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) Give me an example that involves magic categories like those mentioned here that does super-effective damage to one or more groups of units without the help of any kind of a magic triangle, then I'll believe you... There's Excalibur(FE1/3/11/12), Aircalibur(FE6) and Thani(FE10) which is basically a Light magic equivalent of a Rapier. Edited March 31, 2012 by arvilino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naglfar Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Wait, last I checked FE1 Excalibur doesn't get an effective bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlegnomes Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 Dunno. There's also shaver in FE3/12 that has effective damage and is individually different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowjam Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) How do you take someone talking about bonus damage and think they're talking about magic? Holy fuck this is poorly set out. Why do you think weapons that work off STR are any different to those that work off MAG? okay FE10 system: Fire (coded by category): bonus damage versus beasts Thunder (coded by category): bonus damage versus dragons Wind (coded by category): bonus damage versus fliers minus dragons hypothetical bonus damage system with FE13 weapon ranks: Fire/Elfire/etc (coded individually): bonus damage versus beasts, gryphons? Thunder/Elthunder/etc (coded individually): bonus damage versus dragons Wind/Elwind/etc (coded individually): bonus damage versus fliers minus dragons, gryphons? To be honest, I would hazard a guess that even the entire categories of weapons that get the same bonus damage (ie bows) are programmed one by one. I'm not a romhacker so someone else will have to clarify that. My point: effective damage is not tied to weapon type, which should be plainly obvious given the extensive list of weapons in every game that get special bonuses. Well, come to think of it, after noticing your posts, I noticed something that I admit that I missed at time of my previous posts: Description of individual weapon by what the game tells you.. Thank you for the example... Edited March 31, 2012 by shadowjam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 (edited) The basic Thunder tome isn't effective against dragons, seen here : o Huh, good catch. Scratch that, then. I still think wind magic will be effective against fliers, but I guess it'll be the only one. So we're probably looking at this, then: Pegasus Knight (Pegasus/Horse): arrows, wind magic, horseslayers Dragon Knight (Pegasus/Dragon): arrows, wind magic, wyrmslayers Griffin Knight (Pegasus/Beast): arrows, wind magic, beastslayers Well, that certainly necessitates the discarding of my conclusions of the big Dragon/Griffin differences. --- On an unrelated note: http://serenesforest.net/fe13/img/1227/ND009.png I believe we now have enough information to make sense out of this. This is Vake's skill screen. His total list of available skills: HP +5 Lockpick Fiery Heart Move +1 Strength Cry Gamble Mug We know Vake starts as a Fighter, and can use a Change Proof to become a Brigand. I think we also heard something to the effect that he could also become a Thief. This all fits together quite nicely. As a Fighter, he starts with the skill HP +5. This is clear from his status screen: he has an identical skill displayed, and his max HP is shiny, indicating a bonus to it. From there, he used a Change Proof to become a Thief, learning Lockpick and probably Move +1. He then used another Change Proof to become a Brigand, carrying over those two key skills, and learned Mug. Now, this is where it gets interesting. See, based on crossing the info from FE6 and FE8, it seems like a safe bet that Brigands will promote to Warriors or Berserkers. Berserkers have previously has a crit bonus of about +15. What does Vake have, now? One skill offering a +5 Crit bonus, and another offering a +10 Crit bonus in exchange for a penalty. Strength Cry also makes sense as a skill for a Berserker to have. This indicates that characters mainly gain skills from promoted classes as opposed to unpromoted classes, which makes sense. Of course, it also may be that Vake used his class changes as early as he could, at LV10 or so, while the skills required being at higher levels. With branched promotions, it makes sense that promoted classes wouldn't automatically grant access to the skills of their unpromoted counterparts. Clerics get a couple of special skills; I don't think a Mage promoting to Sage would instantly have access to them. This emphasizes the importance of using Change Proofs to go to lower tiers: if you want Sumia to learn Cleric skills like Healing Heart, you'll need to change her to Cleric rather than changing her directly to Sage or Battle Cleric. This offers many important choices to make. Edited March 31, 2012 by Othin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrategistPockystix Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 so, Will magic even really fit into any effective use? or will it just be it's own thing now? maybe certain tomes will target certain classes, a la Excalibur and the such Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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