Change Seal

[BladeMaster]

Hey all,

I was wondering: when using a change seal, I know that your level goes back to 1, but my question is: what happens to your stats?

Do they go back to level 1 stats as well? do they stay the same?

Also are there a limited number of change/master seals in the game? or is there somewhere to buy them?

Thanks

[Melonhead]

Hey all,

I was wondering: when using a change seal, I know that your level goes back to 1, but my question is: what happens to your stats?

Do they go back to level 1 stats as well? do they stay the same?

Also are there a limited number of change/master seals in the game? or is there somewhere to buy them?

Thanks

All I can say about this is that they seem to become unlimited at some point in the game, I don't know about the other questions. I guess they stay the same.. If changed from a promo'd class it might go down a bit.

[BladeMaster]

thanks for the reply.

My least favorite thing about other portable FE games was the lack of class changing items.

Anyone know what happens to your stats when you change seal?

If they stay the same you could easily max your stats by changing a few times.

[ReedTien]

They don't necessarily stay the same, but it's not like you're starting all over. They change based on the new class's base stats - (minus) the old class's base stats. If some bases are higher, then those stats will go up by the exact difference. If some bases are lower, then those stats will decrease.

Edited May 6, 2012 by ReedTien

[ZephyrD]

When you change someone they keep their stats from level ups. Their stats might go down if the class has lower bases, but aside from that there's no "reset." It would be pretty pointless if your stats were reset, you'd have troubles hitting the high caps.

Change seals are buyable after Ch 16 for 2500G. You get a decent amount before that, I believe.

[CrashGordon94]

The stat changes are like FE11/12 Reclass changes, if you're familiar with those games.

[BladeMaster]

Thanks for all the replies.

So it is possible to max out every characters stats using the re-class system.

Very interesting.

[MagiusNecros]

It's basically postgame Sacred Stones. Except it's more inexpensive to attain.

[LegendaryHero0]

When do they become available in the game? Is it pretty early on?

[Othin]

When do they become available in the game? Is it pretty early on?

You can buy them from random traveling merchants from just a few chapters in, but they might just not show up. You start getting them reliably in the regular chapters around Ch8, and keep getting more for the next third of the game: after Ch16, you can then buy them in unlimited quantities.

You do need to reach LV10 to use them, but that can actually happen really fast in this game because of how quickly enemies increase their levels.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Othin

[LegendaryHero0]

You can buy them from random traveling merchants from just a few chapters in, but they might just not show up. You start getting them reliably in the regular chapters around Ch8, and keep getting more for the next third of the game: after Ch16, you can then buy them in unlimited quantities.

You do need to reach LV10 to use them, but that can actually happen really fast in this game because of how quickly enemies increase their levels.

I've been hearing that there's a lot of grinding options in the game as well, so I don't think that should be much of a problem.

Speaking of which, how is the grinding different? Is it like Sacred Stones with a tower-like place and random spurs of zombie attacks?

[ReedTien]

After each chapter you complete, skirmishes appear on the map seemingly randomly. But you can force skirmishes to appear on a space by using an item (the Scented Box). They cost 500g on normal mode, but 4800g on hard or lunatic mode. You also only get one (maybe two) from chapters, so you'll have to buy more to grind endlessly.

Edited May 7, 2012 by ReedTien

[Othin]

There's no tower. What Reed said about skirmishes is partially correct: the skirmishes appear over time whether or not you complete more chapters, so you can still battle an unlimited number of them without using Scented Boxes. The Scented Boxes are mostly useful for triggering skirmishes in a specific location, so that you can fight enemies at levels based on that location. You can also replay DLC maps unlimited times, and you can summon SpotPass characters an unlimited number of times to battle them again as skirmish-like battles appearing in random locations. The SpotPass battles have a set team, but like skirmishes, they show up on existing maps, so you can have different battles with them depending on the location.

[cheetah7071]

Nobody seems to have answered whether level resets. I want to have Liz as a Falcon Knight for flying healing, but don't really want to spend any time as a Pegasus Knight. Is that unavoidable without waiting for level 10 promoted?

[Othin]

Nobody seems to have answered whether level resets. I want to have Liz as a Falcon Knight for flying healing, but don't really want to spend any time as a Pegasus Knight. Is that unavoidable without waiting for level 10 promoted?

Level resets whenever you use a promotion item. You could reach Falcon Knight by one of these two paths:

Cleric 10 --> Pegasus Knight 10 --> Falcon Knight

Cleric 10 --> Sage / Battle Cleric 10 --> Falcon Knight

Leveling up as a Sage or as a Battle Cleric takes longer, but Liz is more effective in the meantime. On the other hand, if you reach LV10 in one of those classes, going all the way to LV15 gets you an excellent skill. Tome Expert isn't so useful for Falcon Knights, though.

[cheetah7071]

Thanks. I'll probably just early promote her and drag her up to 10/10 with healing.

[Othin]

It's worth noting that Exp gains do not reset with level: they're still based on the total number of levels gained. Promotion also affects it, though: you gain less Exp as a promoted unit at the same total level.

[Saethori]

It's worth noting that Exp gains do not reset with level: they're still based on the total number of levels gained. Promotion also affects it, though: you gain less Exp as a promoted unit at the same total level.

Here's a question relating to that, though, since I kind of was wondering:

Say you take Liz (as the previous examples have), level her up to 10, then immediately use a Master Seal to turn her into a Sage 1. In accordance to standard FE formulas, she now gains experience as a level 21 unit.

Now let's say you immediately, without future leveling, use a Change Seal on her to turn her into a Level 1 Pegasus Knight. (For the purposes of this argument, we'll ignore the 'why would you waste a master seal' factor.)

Does she gain experience as though she were level 10 ('undoing' the promotion levels), or as though she were level 21 ('keeping' the promotion levels)?

[Othin]

Here's a question relating to that, though, since I kind of was wondering:

Say you take Liz (as the previous examples have), level her up to 10, then immediately use a Master Seal to turn her into a Sage 1. In accordance to standard FE formulas, she now gains experience as a level 21 unit.

Now let's say you immediately, without future leveling, use a Change Seal on her to turn her into a Level 1 Pegasus Knight. (For the purposes of this argument, we'll ignore the 'why would you waste a master seal' factor.)

Does she gain experience as though she were level 10 ('undoing' the promotion levels), or as though she were level 21 ('keeping' the promotion levels)?

Yeah, you lose the Exp penalty from promotion. I think that's just a class modifier that impacts the Exp formula as if you had an extra x number of levels (I think 15 is a closer estimate), so yeah, it goes away once you leave that class. When I "unpromoted" Sol to Demon Fighter, his Exp gains shot up. In fact, I don't even know how to explain how much his Exp gains increased: he's still the equivalent of a LV50 character, so even in an "unpromoted" class, he shouldn't be gaining a ton of Exp, but he is. Maybe the enemies are just functioning as even higher-leveled than I thought? Or maybe unpromoting in that way actually increases Exp gains.

I decided to test this with Roy killing a LV13 Archer. He starts from base, as a LV11 Mercenary.

As LV11 Merc: 37 Exp

As a Merc --> LV1 Hero: 15 Exp

As a Merc --> LV1 Myrmidon: 53 Exp

As a Merc --> Hero --> LV1 Merc: 37 Exp

As a Merc --> LV1 Strategist: 53 Exp (War Experience disabled)

As a Merc --> LV1 Strategist: 79 Exp (War Experience enabled)

As a Merc --> Hero --> LV1 Myrmidon: 37 Exp

I'm not sure what to make of this.

All data was collected repeating the same actions on Turn 1 of Linde's SpotPass skirmish, against the same enemy. He was in Double with this setup, and his Exp with War Experience changed as expected with that in mind - the question is how it got to 53 in the fist place and why it wasn't 53 when he unpromoted from Hero. This seems to show the opposite of what I expected.

---

To compare, Donny as a LV2 Villager gained 67 Exp from that same kill. Gaia as a LV8 Thief gained 47 Exp from it. Neither one had ever used any class changes, but I'm still not sure what their levels really mean...

Sol meanwhile as a ~LV50 character reclassed as a LV3 Demon Fighter gained 14 Exp from the kill. That's... pretty high for his level. I'm sure Demon Fighter is counted as an unpromoted class, but... LV53 unpromoted being near-equivalent to LV11 promoted? Something's odd here.

---

Noire is a 10 Archer --> 15 Bow Knight.

15 Bow Knight: 10 Exp

Bow Knight --> 1 Griffin Knight: 9 Exp

Bow Knight --> 1 Dracoknight: 20 Exp

Bow Knight --> Griffin Knight --> 1 Dracoknight: 15 Exp

What.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Othin

[Saethori]

It's possible that using Change Seals cause only a partial inheritence of the original levels, for the purposes of experience gain... but, at the same time, promotion levels are counted.

The "go straight to Strategist/Mercernary/Myrmidon" examples, where he gains 53 exp for the kill, make it seem like he's gaining level as a level 6; half of his original level rounded up.

However, in the "promote then depromote" examples, where he gains 37 exp, he's gaining experience like his original level 11. Which would match up with 21 (promoted level 1), halved and rounded up.

It might be worth investigating this theory

EDIT: For the Noire examples, it's clear staying as a promoted class cause full level inheritence, so this partial inheritence likely only applies for depromoting. Also, based on the level differences, I think the level 1 actually counts. Perhaps the formula is truly 'rounded down, but counting the new level'?.

15 Bow Knight is effectively a level 35 character. So this would mean...

- Switching to Griffin Knight makes her level 36.

- Switching to Dracoknight makes her level 35, halved (and rounded down) to 17, then +1 for 18.

- Switching to Griffin then Draco makes her level 36, and then halved to 18, then +1 for 19.

Edited May 9, 2012 by Saethori

[Othin]

It's possible that using Change Seals cause only a partial inheritence of the original levels, for the purposes of experience gain... but, at the same time, promotion levels are counted.

The "go straight to Strategist/Mercernary/Myrmidon" examples, where he gains 53 exp for the kill, make it seem like he's gaining level as a level 6; half of his original level rounded up.

However, in the "promote then depromote" examples, where he gains 37 exp, he's gaining experience like his original level 11. Which would match up with 21 (promoted level 1), halved and rounded up.

It might be worth investigating this theory.

This could fit, but how do we explain why Noire gained less Exp when she stopped as a Griffin Knight before unpromoting?

Maybe it's different with promoted classes? It seems like when she just went to Griffin Knight, she was counted as just leveling up once.

[Saethori]

This could fit, but how do we explain why Noire gained less Exp when she stopped as a Griffin Knight before unpromoting?

Maybe it's different with promoted classes? It seems like when she just went to Griffin Knight, she was counted as just leveling up once.

I replied to this but I guess you responded while I was editing my post. x.x

I think the formula might be:

Current Level, +20 if promoted, halved by 2 and rounded down if new class is unpromoted, and then add one for the new level.

So...

Roy as Hero>Merc is (21/2, for 10, +1 for 11)

Roy as Merc>Myr is (11/2, for 5, +1 for 6)

Noire as BowK>Draco is (35/2, for 17, +1 for 18)

Noire as BowK>Griffin>Draco is (35+1, for 36), and then (36/2, for 18, +1 for 19).

[Othin]

Yeah, that fits with why she lost one Exp as a Griffin, but the 5 Exp loss as a Draco seems like too much to explain that way.

[Saethori]

Any other theory I might make would be purely a guess, as I lack the game to do any testing myself.

This whole class-changing and depromoting system adds quite a bit more complexity to what was otherwise, in other FE games, a more simplistic experience formula.

[Othin]

Jerome as 10 Dracoknight --> 10 Dragonmaster:

10 Dragonmaster: 12 Exp

Dragonmaster --> 1 Great Knight: 10 Exp

Dragonmaster --> 1 Dracoknight: 30 Exp

Dragonmaster --> Great Knight --> 1 Dracoknight: 15 Exp

Caeda as 10 Pegasus Knight:

10 Pegasus Knight: 40 Exp

Pegasus Knight --> 1 Falcon Knight: 15 Exp

Pegasus Knight --> 1 Cavalier: 57 Exp

Pegasus Knight --> Falcon Knight --> 1 Cavalier: 37 Exp

Saria as 10+ Dark Mage --> 20 Sorcerer --> 10 Sorcerer --> 1 Sniper:

1 Sniper: 8 Exp

Sniper --> 1 Archer: 15 Exp

Velvet as 18 Taguel:

18 Taguel: 20 Exp

Taguel --> 1 Dracoknight: 43 Exp

Unn as 30 Manakete --> 1 Griffin Knight:

1 Griffin Knight: 10 Exp

Griffin Knight --> 1 Dracoknight: 15 Exp

Griffin Knight --> 1 Manakete: 15 Exp

Alm as 21 Demon Fighter:

21 Demon Fighter: 15 Exp

Demon Fighter --> 1 Dracoknight: 37 Exp

Sigurd as 20 Paladin --> 1 Paladin:

1 Paladin: 9 Exp

Paladin --> 1 Cavalier: 15 Exp

Navarre as 20 Swordmaster:

Swordmaster --> 1 Swordmaster: 9 Exp

Swordmaster --> 1 Hero: 9 Exp

Enemy MU as ~10 Strategist --> ~10 Mercenary --> 15 Bow Knight:

15 Bow Knight: 8 Exp

Bow Knight --> 1 Paladin: 8 Exp

Bow Knight --> 1 Cavalier: 15 Exp

Bow Knight --> Paladin --> 1 Cavalier: 15 Exp

Ogma as LV15 Hero:

15 Hero: 10 Exp

Hero --> 1 Cavalier: 20 Exp

Somewhere, something's not getting retained fully. But where? And what?

Edited May 9, 2012 by Othin