Tables Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Kay, let's talk, I'm not proposing anything yet but I want ideas. For the sake of this let's talk about a few various team compositions. Team A: Shinori, Tables, Proto Team B: Marth, Proto, slayer Team C: Tables, Slayer, Scorri Talk about these 3 team ideas and tell me what think of each of them? What do you think is the best team to be sent and which do you think is not? Give me opinions. This is probably going to be really unhelpful, because at this point I pretty much can only parrot the same thing, which is 'I am/am not on this team'. I'll try and expand. A: For me, this would be the team that I'd be most happy with. Reasons should be fairly obvious. B: I'm not on this team. The fact you aren't proposing yourself means it will certainly fail, as well (if you're a spy, you've put a spy on it (unless you've chosen not to, for whatever reason). If you're Resistance, well I know I am, so there's at most 2 Resistance out of the other four people, and three are on this mission). So of course I would most certainly vote no. C: Again, you haven't included yourself which is interesting. It gets more information for you, but that's about it. I'm... not particularly enthused either way by this mission. I'd vote yes, because I'm on it and if it goes ahead, I'll get the plot card to distribute next round (which I'd say is a somewhat good thing), and I have no real reason to believe it's any more/less likely to pass than any other team at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 I'm currently viewing Tables as at least somewhat Resistance, so I'd be fine with the team of him, me, and slayer because to me that looks like one for sure resistance member, one probably resistance member, making it much easier for me to figure things out if the mission is sabotaged. However, if I'm not on the mission, I'm less certain. There hasn't been a lot of discussion, so it's not easy to tell with some people. I'd agree that Proto appears to be more Resistance sided because of his discussion but I dunno. I suppose I'd want at least Tables or Proto, preferably both on the team if I'm not on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 You do partially contradict yourself and that's something you should think about, side note if you plan to decline any that don't have you and other players did the same thing this would be a permanent stale mate unless we did a 4 man mission, which I highly disagree with personally. I really don't like how you are saying you are fine with any that have you, yes I'm fine with any that have me but I won't just outright decline any that don't have me. As I stated if we all looked at it that way then we would be at a standstill until the 5th proposal which would be forced to be accepted pretty much, and what if it is a 4 man mission or something similar. Or what if that 5th mission proposal doesn't include you anyway and instead includes the leader of that proposal and the following two people after that setting up the spies in for a bit of extra strength assuming one of those people could be one. I'd still like your insight on the teams I proposed and what you think of each individual team, not just "Oh i'm fine with either of the ones that have me, maybe the one with proto as well." Saying that means you would prefer the one with me you and proto out of the three I stated but you haven't given any of your opinions on me, do you have none? That feels like you are just saying you will go with it even though it has someone you don't have any opinions on, which I don't know how to think of that exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Ninjad me fuckers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 In answer for to what you were saying tables the second two teams do not have me on it because I put one person from the failed proposal and put it on each mission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Team A: Shinori, Tables, Proto: I'd be ok with this one. Shinori, I don't really have a read on you yet, but I'd vote yes for this one. Team B: Marth, Proto, slayer: I have no real read on slayer or marth, and so am not really a fan of this one since if it failed I'd have one person I sorta think of as Resistance, and two I have no clue on. Team C: Tables, Slayer, Scorri: I'd also be fine with this one since I know I'm Resistance, have a read on Tables as Resistance, thus making it rather likely that slayer is a spy if this mission is sab'd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Team A: Shinori, Tables, Proto Team B: Marth, Proto, slayer Team C: Tables, Slayer, Scorri To be honest, i'm kind of okay with any of the teams. Proto and Tables seem resistance so far plus i'd like the leader in the mission it self. I like B the best aside from Marth, who should be replaced with Shinori. I like C (replace scorri with shinori here) but as tables has said, its best not to pick the person that will be the next leader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 You do partially contradict yourself and that's something you should think about, side note if you plan to decline any that don't have you and other players did the same thing this would be a permanent stale mate unless we did a 4 man mission, which I highly disagree with personally. I really don't like how you are saying you are fine with any that have you, yes I'm fine with any that have me but I won't just outright decline any that don't have me. As I stated if we all looked at it that way then we would be at a standstill until the 5th proposal which would be forced to be accepted pretty much, and what if it is a 4 man mission or something similar. Or what if that 5th mission proposal doesn't include you anyway and instead includes the leader of that proposal and the following two people after that setting up the spies in for a bit of extra strength assuming one of those people could be one. I'd still like your insight on the teams I proposed and what you think of each individual team, not just "Oh i'm fine with either of the ones that have me, maybe the one with proto as well." Saying that means you would prefer the one with me you and proto out of the three I stated but you haven't given any of your opinions on me, do you have none? That feels like you are just saying you will go with it even though it has someone you don't have any opinions on, which I don't know how to think of that exactly. At this point in the game, we have to take action based on very little. You're correct I have no read on you, and we'll have to accept mission 4 (not 5, as Slayer has No Confidence and could insta-win as Spy therefore). But the more things get discussed, and crucially the more things happen, the more information becomes available. Also, you assume everyone will play the same way as me, and not accept missions without them on it. Well, if that happens, okay, but if my play is in some way suboptimal in trying to get myself onto the mission (and thus maximise the chance it'll succeed given what I know), then let me know what I should be doing instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 That feels like you are just saying you will go with it even though it has someone you don't have any opinions on, which I don't know how to think of that exactly. Thats kind of ridiculous really. The only ones most people have anything close to a read on are Proto and IET who have been quite talkative and i guess helpful. Its ridiculous to say that you must have some sort of opinion on every person in the team for the very first mission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 I'm still going to give it a bit more time for discussion before i propose a mission. Anyone else have any more ideal missions other than team A which most people seem to be okay with so far? I'm open to suggestions and any that are suggested can be talked about which gives us more information. I was stating something else here but first I want to reread people before i make any false assumptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Would that mafia happen to be the fire emblem one over on mafia scum? Also I'm on if you want to chat. (Contentless post, feel free to skip) No, it's actually at a forum for the board game Dominion (dominionstrategy). It's pretty exciting. I don't play at Mafiascum, they're too serious for me :P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Next few plausible missions D: Shinori, proto, scorri E: Shinori, slayer, tables F: Shinori, marth, proto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Before I comment on those proposals, I'll just say I've reread the thread, and my thoughts are: Proto: Still feel he's somewhat pro-town Shinori: I'm liking the critical view you're taking, and way you're looking for other's opinions. This all strikes me as pro-town. Slayer: Hasn't said an awful lot, and I can't really read a lot into it so far. More likely spy based on above two reads, though. Scorri: Also hasn't said too much, and what's been said hasn't given me much of a read. Marth: This one's interesting. The choice of Slayer for the first plot card was somewhat random, but could mean something... could be a cheap way of giving a scumbuddy a card, and he also didn't put Slayer on the mission. Unlikely, but it's a possible pairing. I'd like to hear if he has any reason beyond 'random' for giving Slayer the card. Finally, I'd just remind everyone, a Resistance team is only as strong as it's weakest link. It doesn't matter if most of the team is resistance, it matters if one of the team is a spy. At this point, there's not much to do about it, but... bear it in mind for later, K? Having now read and got some reads on people, I can view these proposals in a slightly different light: D: This has the three people I feel are most likely resistance, excluding myself. I'd like it to go ahead, especially as a means to challenge my current beliefs for if I'm wrong. E: It has me, and it doesn't have Marth. Slayer I'm not sold on, but I'd be happy enough with this. F: It has Marth, and it doesn't have me. For now, I think I'd eer away from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 I feel the most comfortable with E despite what i said last time about Tables being in a mission. This is due to me being in it. Also, in my eyes, its the least likely to have a spy in it. Me + resistancevibe!tables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Thanks for the views table. I really wish marth would come back and post more, he's been non-existant all game except for a few posts that don't say all that much. Also as tables posted, the random card being given away to slayer. Scorri's gone somewhere by the obvious fact that she isn't on IRC at the moment, and proto is usually not on at this time of the day. Therefore before I post any proposals I will wait till these three get on and post their thoughts on the 6 proposed proposals that I have stated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 D: Shinori, proto, scorri: I am all for this as it has the two of the three people I consider most Resistance likely and Shinori who I've been getting better and better vibes about as this has gone on. E: Shinori, slayer, tables: This would be my second choice as Slayer has at least been around, and Tables is right behind me for who I consider most Resistance likely. F: Shinori, marth, proto: I'd be uncomfortable with this one as I'm less sure about Proto than I am Tables, slightly less sure about Shinori than Proto, and significantly less sure about Marth than anyone in the game except Slayer, and I'm slightly less sure about Marth than I am about slayer. All in all, I would vote yes for either D or E, but would veto F. Now, having said all this, we need to remember, that unless the spies are Marth and Slayer, it's highly likely that one of the people we're all trusting quite a bit now (aka Shinori, Proto, Tables) could be a spy. Yes, I could also be a spy from your point of view, but this is FMPOV. So, I'm not saying that you should vote no for a proposal just because you're not on it and you don't 100% trust people on it, but I'm trying to say that if we choose misson E for example and it's sab'd, don't automatically assume slayer is the spy. A good spy would be "helping" the resistance as much as possible to seem like a good little Resistance member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Can I be an IO, Elieson? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Ya. Give me a bit to access my comp and I'll io you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 BigBangMeteor has been added to your Role PMs as an Informed Observer. Please carry on gameplay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriemhild Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I disagree with Proto's conclusion, but I'm getting a very pro-town read from the argument itself. I think that a failed 2 man gives us considerably less information than a failed three man, however - yes, knowing someone is definite scum is good for you, but they're in the same boat, making the same arguments againt you, and it means both of you easily get at each other's throats. It's generally bad. Now, this team... despite my suggestion of avoiding the next-in-line, it appears to contain the next-in-line. It also doesn't contain me. At this point, those are two black marks against what's otherwise a pretty random round. Next please. Uh, wouldn't it be better if you waited until AFTER the votes were placed before explaining your reasoning? Who knows, a Spy may have changed their vote because of it... Kay, let's talk, I'm not proposing anything yet but I want ideas. For the sake of this let's talk about a few various team compositions. Team A: Shinori, Tables, Proto Team B: Marth, Proto, slayer Team C: Tables, Slayer, Scorri Talk about these 3 team ideas and tell me what think of each of them? What do you think is the best team to be sent and which do you think is not? Give me opinions. If YOU actually send in Team B or C, I'd vote No because I can't imagine why you would want a team without yourself. Just so you know, if you're not included in the team and you're Resistance, the chances of there being a Spy is 70% (60% for one, 10% for both), if I did the calculations correctly. I wouldn't trust you to go for a 30% attempt. However, I suppose what you're asking is what I think about the teams themselves, without considering who it was that proposed it. In that case, I would agree to Team B, because not only does it have me, but it also excludes I eat tables. As I eat tables said, a failure in a 3-man team usually lets you separate the players into two groups of three, with each group likely containing one Spy. I want I eat tables to be on the group that I'm not in, since he also seems to like writing giant walls of text containing objective analyses, so I'd be interested in his view of the situations from a different position than the one I'll be in. Speaking of I eat tables, although his contribution looks Resistancish, the fact that he's a real pro at this and even moderated a lot of games to be really good at camouflaging his alignment, makes me retain my neutral read on him. With I eat tables specifically, I don't think I'll look at his posts (unless he slips up, which is unlikely) but rely on votes/proposals/etc to investigate him. The logic of "vote yes if I'm in it, no if I'm not" is quite unhelpful here. As Shinori pointed out, this would lead to every mission failing until the 4th proposal where we have to agree if we don't want to risk insta-loss. We won't get any analyzable votes since they'll all fall under the same stupid logic. Furthermore, the odds of a 3-man mission succeeding isn't very high, and we have too little info to significantly increase our odds of success. So I think it's better if you guys judge the 3-man teams by also considering the potential info that can be gained from those selections, rather than sort them purely by probability of success which is mostly just "good if I'm in, bad if I'm not" at this point. Going by that, C seems good since it also separates me from I eat tables. As for A, well, if I look at it purely from my point of view, A has a better chance of us scoring a point than C does, solely because I'm in it, but again, my views aren't shared by everyone else and I like the partitioning in C, so A = C for me. I'd respond to the other posts, but I have class soon, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Proposal 1.2- Mission 4 Team: Shinori, Scorri, Proto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Speaking of I eat tables, although his contribution looks Resistancish, the fact that he's a real pro at this and even moderated a lot of games to be really good at camouflaging his alignment, makes me retain my neutral read on him. With I eat tables specifically, I don't think I'll look at his posts (unless he slips up, which is unlikely) but rely on votes/proposals/etc to investigate him. Heh. Well, in almost all games, as mafia/spy/SK my general strategy is to doublethink and forget I'm mafia, and be completely town/resistance during the game. It's even easier in Resistance, as you never talk to your partner so it's easier to knowingly forget who they are. I agree that looking at votes and the like is probably the strongest indication, not just for me, but for everyone, which should make round 2+ a bit easier to work with. The perfect memory of forums will also help here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Speaking of I eat tables, although his contribution looks Resistancish, the fact that he's a real pro at this and even moderated a lot of games to be really good at camouflaging his alignment, makes me retain my neutral read on him. With I eat tables specifically, I don't think I'll look at his posts (unless he slips up, which is unlikely) but rely on votes/proposals/etc to investigate him. Heh. Well, in almost all games, as mafia/spy/SK my general strategy is to doublethink and forget I'm mafia, and be completely town/resistance during the game. It's even easier in Resistance, as you never talk to your partner so it's easier to knowingly forget who they are. I agree that looking at votes and the like is probably the strongest indication, not just for me, but for everyone, which should make round 2+ a bit easier to work with. The perfect memory of forums will also help here. Oh and re: Reasoning. Perhaps. The converse of your argument also holds, however: It might convince resistance to vote my way, and potentially avoid a problematic scenario for us. I think this is the kind of thing that comes down to preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Best double post ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Whoops, thought that first one hadn't gone through. Doesn't really matter, don't think I edited anything in the first block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.