RvB3: Lyn

[Westbrick]

What? Just because a lot of you hate Eliwood doesn't make him unimportant. He is the main character of FE7.

Eliwood's the main character in FE7, no doubt. I just find your Lyn > Hector and Eliwood > Sigurd lines of reasoning a little suspect.

[Othin]

1) I dunno, seems pretty non-trivial to me. Having a character use the weapons she used in her original game seems more relevant than fitting the arbitrary class distinctions that nobody fits anyway (Matthew and Colm don't fit that description either).

2) I think IS has pretty much broken any pattern.

1) She used swords in FE7; she never actually used bows. And again, it's an entirely different matter having a character capable of promoting to Assassin as opposed to starting as an Assassin. Can you see Matthew winding up being called to assassinate someone? Sure. Can you see Lyn having it as her main job to assassinate people? Uh... no.

2) Not in the slightest. Their patterns just haven't always been what we expected them to be. The point stands that there is nowhere for them to go for a fifth set, and they're out of ideas.

She murders political figures all the time, doing it somewhat stealthily is not really that big of a stretch.

Sounds quite unfitting with that Sacean honor she's so big on.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Othin

[Only My Unit]

No, you just worded it weird there.

@Othin: I know there might not be, but there still could be. I'm not throwing it out because we've had a lot of curve balls thrown at us already.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Only My Unit

[Momo]

Why are you using the literal definition of a class to dictate this? Pretty much every DLC character (except for like... Roy, I think) has been different from how they were portrayed in their own games.

[Othin]

My stance is, if we were going to see another set, regardless of the content, we would've seen the start of it by now. We didn't.

Why are you using the literal definition of a class to dictate this? Pretty much every DLC character (except for like... Roy, I think) has been different from how they were portrayed in their own games.

Not remotely as outrageously so as Assassin Lyn would've been.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Othin

[Samias]

Holy shit a female character with good art that accurately portrays the character? It looks like the Etrian Odyssey artist to me.

I thought it looked a lot like Etrian Odyssey as well from the style of those feet, but from what I could tell, it's not the same artist.

[Westbrick]

1) She used swords in FE7; she never actually used bows.

um

And again, it's an entirely different matter having a character capable of promoting to Assassin as opposed to starting as an Assassin. Can you see Matthew winding up being called to assassinate someone? Sure. Can you see Lyn having it as her main job to assassinate people? Uh... no.

Can I see MU being called to assassinate someone? Or any of MU's kids? Or Colm? Nope. Who cares.

2) Not in the slightest. Their patterns just haven't always been what we expected them to be. The point stands that there is nowhere for them to go for a fifth set, and they're out of ideas.

You're probably right about this. Which is a shame, as the DLC seems to have been pretty disappointing on the whole. Ah well.

Not remotely as outrageously so as Assassin Lyn would've been.

Okay, "outrageous"? Lyn uses swords and bows. Assassins use swords and bows. Lyn is stealthy. Assassins are stealthy. Lyn is vengeful. Assassins are vengeful. Okay, Lyn isn't a cold-blooded killer, but neither is Matthew, Colm, and the entire FE13 cast.

Seriously, who cares.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Westbrick

[Sol Hiryu]

Lyn is slightly more important than Hector, since Lyn gets her own mode while Hector's is just a ripoff of Eliwood's and isn't even playable until beating the game once. And Eliwood is more important than Sigurd, since Sigurd shares the spotlight with Celice in FE4 while Eliwood is the clear main character of FE7. Of course, it would've been better if both of them had gotten in instead of secondary lords like Elincia and Lyn.

Her own mode notwithstanding, she's not really important to the plot other than to be there and use her tracking skills as a deus ex machina, although that's only my own opinion. I said I could understand Hector since he still has a semblance of popularity (although I don't know how much nowadays), but I really wanted Eliwood.

At this point, anything can happen. IS doesn't seem to be holding to predicted patterns, after all.

[Othin]

um

Can I see MU being called to assassinate someone? Or any of MU's kids? Or Colm? Nope. Who cares.

You're probably right about this. Which is a shame, as the DLC seems to have been pretty disappointing on the whole. Ah well.

Yes, she could use bows. No one cared, therefore she tended to not use bows in practice. They were a fancy bonus to make the Lord classes interesting; nothing more, nothing character-defining.

Now you're bringing in reclassing, which is even more irrelevant. The only relevant examples are characters who actually start as an Assassin. So Jaffar and Volke. Surely you realize that it means something that Jaffar starts in the Assassin class while Matthew and Legault do not?

[Psych]

I can also see Hector over Lyn, as he appears in FE6 and Lyn was really just a throw away in order to help bring FE7 overseas with the tutorial mode. At the same time, Lyn was really just a throw away in order to help bring FE7 overseas with the tutorial mode and as such, the first Lord most Americans ever experienced in FE, so it's not unreasonable that they have her over Hector.

[Airship Canon]

This probably carries no weight, but Lyn had Smash Rep. Eliwood and Hector.. didn't.

[Only My Unit]

Even though this argument's pretty stupid, I gotta point out that those that start as thieves or myrmidions can can naturally promote into Assasins. Plus, in that support with Jaffar, Matthew seems more assassin- like in prowess for a moment . Legault seems like an assassin type, too. The only people who don't seem assassin-like are Colm and Rennac.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Only My Unit

[Westbrick]

Yes, she could use bows. No one cared, therefore she tended to not use bows in practice. They were a fancy bonus to make the Lord classes interesting; nothing more, nothing character-defining.

Who cares if it's character-defining? Bows are unit-defining from a gameplay perspective, which seems entirely relevant when making a DLC representation.

Now you're bringing in reclassing, which is even more irrelevant. The only relevant examples are characters who actually start as an Assassin. So Jaffar and Volke. Surely you realize that it means something that Jaffar starts in the Assassin class while Matthew and Legault do not?

Why aren't we counting Matthew and Colm, exactly? Because they're inconvenient examples?

Seriously, your reasoning here is baffling. Let me see if I understand it:

1) Each class comes with a set of implied personality traits.

2) An assassin is sneaky, vengeful, and cold-blooded.

3) Lyn is sneaky, vengeful to a degree, but not cold-blooded.

4) Therefore, having Lyn be an assassin so she could accurately reflect her FE7 promoted class is "outrageous" because she doesn't 100% mesh with some implied character traits of an assassin. Oh, but only pre-promoted assassins.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Westbrick

[Silent Mercenary]

Ah, I knew it. I was just about to comment on this because this just proves Red vs. Blue was the female-only set to the King vs. King set, both of which introduce a new gender exclusive class and a special skill on the last two maps.

To me, they have continued the patterns and redundancy wasn't much of a concern. It was more who to fit where, Marth-Roy-Micaiah in ST was for the release progression, but I can't figure out what KvK and RvB's river drying up and the field getting lighter mean respectively. LvD went from rain to sunlight depending which side you faced.

This does bring doubts about whether or not there's more than one map left for the horse-riding lords (and possible others). IS has been paying attention to the ratios but with Lyn being the starting lord of FE7, they could just leave it at one guy left for LvD. I still go by the theory that they stop for a while by LvD3 and return to DLC maybe bi-monthly or when the game is internationally released.

[Momo]

I expected Hector since he's significantly different from all the other lords. As opposed to being a slim, sword wielder he's a burly guy with an axe. Would've been a good way to throw people off, but eh. I'm glad it's not Eliwood and the art is nice, so I'm not too disappointed.

[Remnant Sage]

?! It's the guy that does DOGS BULLETS & CARNAGE. Miwa Shirow.

[Thor Odinson]

Geez if you don't want her to be SM just reclass her. I actually like what they did with the outfit. You can tell her class just as easily as you can tell it's Lyn. Then again, Lyn's original outfit works pretty well with the SM outfits anyway, just minus fluffy.

Other than the feet and the position of her left leg, I like this the best out of the female DLCs. Props to the artist for going for a more dynamic pose than most of the others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirow_Miwa Oh, have the artist, guys.

Edit: well I'm late this time :p

Edited June 28, 2012 by Fat Bunny

[Westbrick]

Geez if you don't want her to be SM just reclass her.

Othin and I have been having this entirely pointless argument for weeks now, and don't worry, it's been relatively civil. And he was right anyway, so I guess IS found his judgment to be reasonable.

[Only My Unit]

King vs King had a Jugdral Leader as a prize of the Jugdral map. RVB has Lyn from the FE7 map. Marth was first in Spirit Talisman, but who better to kickstart DLC? Perhaps LVD is Ike.

[Othin]

Who cares if it's character-defining? Bows are unit-defining from a gameplay perspective, which seems entirely relevant when making a DLC representation.

Why aren't we counting Matthew and Colm, exactly? Because they're inconvenient examples?

Seriously, your reasoning here is baffling. Let me see if I understand it:

1) Each class comes with a set of implied personality traits.

2) An assassin is sneaky, vengeful, and cold-blooded.

3) Lyn is sneaky, vengeful to a degree, but not cold-blooded.

4) Therefore, having Lyn be an assassin so she could accurately reflect her FE7 promoted class is "outrageous" because she doesn't 100% mesh with some implied character traits of an assassin. Oh, but only pre-promoted assassins.

Not too unit-defining when you're bad with them.

We're ignoring Matthew and Legault because they don't start as Assassins. I just explained this. To clarify: Lyn starting as a Myrmidon with the potential to promote to Assassin would be okay. Lyn starting as an Assassin is not, as that has far stronger implications of the traits. It's like how the Whitewings in FE1 calling themselves Pegasus Knights is okay even though they have the potential to become Dracoknights instead, but it wouldn't be okay for Minerva, who starts as a Dracoknight, to call herself a Pegasus Knight.

Citation please for Lyn being "sneaky". And no, "vengeful" is not what I would put as a specific assassin trait. I would put "emotionally detached" in its place, something seen with Jaffar and Volke, something Lyn does not display at all.

I expected Hector since he's significantly different from all the other lords. As opposed to being a slim, sword wielder he's a burly guy with an axe. Would've been a good way to throw people off, but eh. I'm glad it's not Eliwood and the art is nice, so I'm not too disappointed.

Hector also didn't get recognition as a main character in ST or LvD, while all potential DLC characters did, including Eliwood and Lyn.

Othin and I have been having this entirely pointless argument for weeks now, and don't worry, it's been relatively civil. And he was right anyway, so I guess IS found his judgment to be reasonable.

Remember when I initially suggested that Lyn would just be a second Swordmaster but then we both realized that would be stupid? Good times.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Othin

[eclipse]

Wow, her legs are as skinny as mine, and that's not a good thing. Her description went with her Sacae side.

[Westbrick]

To clarify: Lyn starting as a Myrmidon with the potential to promote to Assassin would be okay. Lyn starting as an Assassin is not, as that has far stronger implications of the traits.

Where the rubber meets the road between your position and mine is how much we value "fitting character," but even I agree that this would've been a perfect solution. And they did it with Roy; why not with Lyn?

Citation please for Lyn being "sneaky".

Lyn:

This way. The signs are fading, but they're really moving. I think I can track them if they keep this pace.

Hector:

Are you sure? Really?

Lyn:

Remember, I'm from Sacae. Bern's foot soldiers are slow and clumsy… And to a Sacaen, men are easier to track than rabbits.

Whether or not this is the same kind of "sneaky" you want to ascribe to assassins is debatable, but the context for this quote is that Lyn is hunting down a group of soldiers with her tracking insights in order to hunt them down, kill them, and reclaim the Fire Emblem. Seems pretty fitting to me, anyway.

Remember when I initially suggested that Lyn would just be a second Swordmaster but then we both realized that would be stupid? Good times.

Good times indeed, friend.

I consider this reveal less a problem with the Lyn DLC specifically and more a referendum on (and I can't emphasize how silly this enough) PEACOCK CELICE. bawk bawk

Edited June 28, 2012 by Westbrick

[Only My Unit]

The site dosen't let me see her full DLC art~ D:

[Thor Odinson]

The site dosen't let me see her full DLC art~ D:

http://gyazo.com/e536daeaabe2f672017c0f63d29f74ea

Have a gyazo.

[Silent Mercenary]

King vs King had a Jugdral Leader as a prize of the Jugdral map. RVB has Lyn from the FE7 map. Marth was first in Spirit Talisman, but who better to kickstart DLC? Perhaps LVD is Ike.

Yeah, Ike's pretty much a given for LvD's last map now. Sothe's the only other candidate (unless the Black Knight or a bad guy could count) and he was a very minor character in PoR, from where the map is from.

Just realized something. July 19 is a Thursday and the day we likely get LvD3. That would be exactly 3 months after the game's release, and it would end the possible fifth set of 3. If 400 yen, it would amount the DLC prices to surpass the game's cost.