I hate Water Temples

[Gold Vanguard]

In ever Zelda game...no in every game PERIOD I hate water temples. They take along time to complete, most of the times the water was dangerous, and the bosses were usually hard(Majora's Mask).

[Wist]

I ask this in earnest: what make water temples difficult or frustrating? I usually enjoy them, and I don't understand why they suffer seemingly universal disdain.

[Gold Vanguard]

I find them mostly boring and having to switch to the iron boots back and fourth is annoying. but mostly because if you fell in the ater 5/10 there was something in there that can kill you.

[Integrity]

Ys Origin had a pretty simple water section.

@Wist: I think it has something to do with gamers and their refusal to think in three dimensions. I recall some commentary about Portal way back when to that effect - that it was hard to make gamers look up.

[Gold Vanguard]

1343670807[/url]' post='2079809']

Ys Origin had a pretty simple water section.

@Wist: I think it has something to do with gamers and their refusal to think in three dimensions. I recall some commentary about Portal way back when to that effect - that it was hard to make gamers look up.

Or there long and boring. I can deal with long dungeons but water temples....read my last two posts.

[Integrity]

Or there long and boring. I can deal with long dungeons but water temples....read my last two posts.

Fire, then. List 'em.

EDIT: I find it notable that I can fairly well apply most of those "last two posts" to fire/lava dungeons with some ease.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Mr. Sparkles

[Gold Vanguard]

1343671051[/url]' post='2079814']

Fire, then. List 'em.

List the long dungeons or the water temples?

[Integrity]

List the long dungeons or the water temples?

Both, in a sense. List this bunch of water-themed dungeons that are "long and boring".

No points for listing OoT's.

[Gold Vanguard]

1343671249[/url]' post='2079817']

Both, in a sense. List this bunch of water-themed dungeons that are "long and boring".

No points for listing OoT's.

I see what you did there. And I guest that also mean any Zelda game with Water temples if i'm correct?

Anyways

Conkers bad fur day( if you stayed in the water to long you would drown and die.(and the wholelevel is under water) Star fox 64(you had a slow sub that gets hit by almost anything.)Sonic 3 hydro city.(anyone that plays sonic knows he can't survive under water for to long.and that he needs a bubble for air. But the bubbles are so stenth away form one another you might've dead in pretty soon.

And that's some from the top of my head.

Also I don't if chemical zone from Sonic 2 counts but the. Eggman battle was tough.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Gold Knight

[Integrity]

I see what you did there. And I guest that also mean any Zelda game with Water temples if i'm corRect?

Anyways

Conkers ad fur day( if you stayed in the water to long you would drown and die.(and the while level is under water)Star fox 64(you had a slow sub that gets hit by almost anything.)Sonic 3 hydro city.(anyone that plays sonic knows he can't survive under water for to long.and that he needs a bubble for air.

All I really did there was preempt the single most common answer to the question. "lol but oot's water temple is so bad!" It wasn't meant as a knock at you or anything.

My only point by this train of thought is reinforcing Wist's point: water levels aren't necessarily longer or more boring on average than any other "theme" of level; people think that they are because they got scarred by some level back when (usually oot or sm64 ime.)

Therefore I note that for each level you can come up with that's a water level that is long and boring, there's another level in another game that's watery and neither long nor boring (hell, even ignoring the semantics of the matter) and there are other levels that are long and boring but not water (usually lava levels).

I'm not going to tell you you don't like water levels, though, so I'm not sure why I'm belaboring the point so hard.

Also as a final point of curiosity, how many water levels that are generally reviled are on the N64 versus every other system ever?

EDIT: On reflection, I'm seriously starting to think there's a correlation between "shitty water level" and "nintendo 64".

Edited July 30, 2012 by Mr. Sparkles

[Gold Vanguard]

1343672045[/url]' post='2079826']

All I really did there was preempt the single most common answer to the question. "lol but oot's water temple is so bad!" It wasn't meant as a knock at you or anything.

My only point by this train of thought is reinforcing Wist's point: water levels aren't necessarily longer or more boring on average than any other "theme" of level; people think that they are because they got scarred by some level back when (usually oot or sm64 ime.)

Therefore I note that for each level you can come up with that's a water level that is long and boring, there's another level in another game that's watery and neither long nor boring (hell, even ignoring the semantics of the matter) and there are other levels that are long and boring but not water (usually lava levels).

I'm not going to tell you you don't like water levels, though, so I'm not sure why I'm belaboring the point so hard.

Also as a final point of curiosity, how many water levels that are generally reviled are on the N64 versus every other system ever?

EDIT: On reflection, I'm seriously starting to think there's a correlation between "shitty water level" and "nintendo 64".

Not just the n64 but the most there mostly hated for that fact that they kill the pace of the game. also the TMNT water level in where you had to get pass theElletric see weed.

[Nova]

At least in Zelda, Water Temples aren't as hard as many gamers call them. You just have to use your brain a bit more than "enter whatever room the next one in sight is". Use your map often, remember which places you already cleared, which places you still have to visit and what you need there (keys, dungeon item etc) to access them.

I actually like them better than most other temples because they're not horribly easy.

[Jedi]

Water temples are just tedious, and take time. Not really all that hard, just use you map and resources and you'll trudge through them

Your Sonic examples on the other hand

Hydrocity was a quick water level, if you know the layout [like me] or get to know it, your not under the water for very long at all and its quite the fun level, also the music rocks

Chemical Plant Zone's boss? Manipulate Tails to hit him about 6 times [if your not careful with Tails and jump at him at the same time as Tails, he will hit him first and cause his brief invincibility so you'll fall right through] or if your playing Sonic/Tails solo just bounce on him about 5 times before his first attack falls, watch out for the flipping platforms below and his attack can be avoided by simply ducking [just as Sonic though] just duck and it will not hit you even if it looks to be dead on

Edited July 30, 2012 by Jedi

[NinjaMonkey]

The only water level I've ever had trouble with is the Great Bay Temple in Majora's Mask. Any other water level hasn't given me much bother (and that includes the CBFD and SF64 levels that you mentioned).

[Samias]

I think a problem with a lot of water levels is that the controls underwater are often terrible and most of your on-land options are stripped away. I don't really have a problem with the OoT Water Temple or MM's Great Bay Temple despite swimming controls being a little sluggish. I thought Twilight Princess had a cool take on a water temple. However, swimming in Skyward Sword is awful and I'm so glad there is no actual water temple because my wrist would fall off in protest. I'm also not fond of the Swamp temple in Link to the Past, because I hate those water bubbles so much.

Super Mario 64 actually has some of my favourite water levels. Jolly Roger Bay, Dire Dire Docks, and Wet-Dry World are all among my favourite levels. I'd rather dive into Dire Dire Docks than Shifting Sand Land or Tall Tall Mountain anyway.

[Zanarkin]

However, swimming in Skyward Sword is awful and I'm so glad there is no actual water temple because my wrist would fall off in protest. I'm also not fond of the Swamp temple in Link to the Past, because I hate those water bubbles so much.

Isn't the temple with the 6 armed monster a water temple?

[Scarlet]

Isn't the temple with the 6 armed monster a water temple?

Somewhat. Part of it is underwater, but it's a much smaller part compared to most other 3D Zelda water temples, and the underwater controls are nowhere near as terribad as in OoT.

I myself also have a dislike for water levels, usually because they're long and gimmicky, but not interesting. There are a few water levels I like, but apparently it's really hard to pull something like that off.

In Zelda, it's the terrible underwater control, although only OoT and TP had it really bad. WW's divine tower was also annoying because of the boat, but at least you didn't actually have to go underwater.

If you want an example of a game that pulled off underwater segments well, in my opinion, look at both Super Mario Galaxy games. Mario is actually mobile underwater; you're about as fast underwater as you are on land, sometimes even faster, and the air meter isn't terribly restricting. Swimming with a shell boost is also fun.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Scarlet

[Samias]

In Zelda, it's the terrible underwater control, although only OoT and TP had it really bad. WW's divine tower was also annoying because of the boat, but at least you didn't actually have to go underwater.

Heh. I'm of the opposite opinion on swimming in Twilight Princess. I thought Twilight Princess actually handled swimming quite well despite the button mash, since you could handle more items underwater if you wore iron boots. The Water Temple boss was one of the more engaging bosses, to boot. Skyward Sword Link may be able to use spin attacks underwater but the turning controls are even more atrocious than usual and are really, physically uncomfortable for prolonged swimming segments. I was so glad that the Ancient Cistern had barely any swimming at all.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Oh man the Ancient Cistern in Skyward Sword was the best. In fact, it was the highest point of the game easily.

Water temples/levels in general...Hmmm. OoT's Water Temple was really oddly overblown. I dont get why so many people went apeshit over this level. Its long and tedious but not hard. If you dont know where to get the keys, it can be a real pain in the fanny but really...nothin to it.

Great Bay Temple in MM, yeah i actually found that one harder than the OoT Water Temple. That level is just a pain. The boss is easy though so i dont get the whole "GYORG IS HARD" thing either.

Ice Temple in A Link To The Past is pretty tricky if you dont get the Cane of Somaria first. (The GBA port dumbed it down...)

TP's Water Temple was no big deal. At all. The swimming controls in that game rule.

Mario water levels are usually fun. I always loved the Mario 64 ones.

[Scarlet]

@Samias: Being able to at least use the sword on the ground helped, but the actual swimming was still boring - not that hard to control, but incredibly boring, simply because you couldn't actually do anything of interest during it.

Doesn't help that TP may quite possibly have the most bland and boring temples in the entire series, with the water temple just topping it off.

(Yeah, I'm not exactly a fan of TP.)

OoT's Water Temple was really oddly overblown. I dont get why so many people went apeshit over this level. Its long and tedious but not hard.

And that's exactly it, I'd guess. Long and tedious is just that, long and tedious. Tedious isn't fun. If it's not even challenging (it isn't), then it's really just boring. I know the layout of OoT's water temple perfectly and still find it incredibly boring. The only fun thing in the entire temple is the fight against Dark Link, and admittedly that one was pulled off really well. Easily the best fight in the game.

Great Bay Temple in MM, yeah i actually found that one harder than the OoT Water Temple. That level is just a pain.

It is harder by a significant margin. Maybe as a result of this, it also is nowhere near as boring. The Zora mask's magnificient underwater mobility definitely helps in keeping things a bit more fresh, too.

The boss is easy though so i dont get the whole "GYORG IS HARD" thing either.

He's easy if you think about it for a second and do the "fire arrow, then attack" strategy.

But given the whole temple's theme, for someone who hasn't done the fight before, it's not a completely unreasonable assumption that you can only hurt Gyorg as Zora Link. Which is partially true, but doing the whole fight as a Zora is nothing short of suicide. If you don't do the arrow strategy, Gyorg is easily the hardest boss in the game. Otherwise, he's just as trivial as the others.

Ice Temple in A Link To The Past is pretty tricky if you dont get the Cane of Somaria first. (The GBA port dumbed it down...)

The GBA port didn't "dumb it down", it fixed an oversight that let you skip half the temple. Now you're just forced to do it "properly".

But the Ice Palace isn't any more complicated than the other dungeons in that game, so...

[Loki Laufeyson]

The GBA port didn't "dumb it down", it fixed an oversight that let you skip half the temple. Now you're just forced to do it "properly".

But the Ice Palace isn't any more complicated than the other dungeons in that game, so...

What oversight that let you skip half the temple? I was referring to the utter removal of the block puzzle thats a real fucken pain in the ass from the original.

[Scarlet]

What oversight that let you skip half the temple? I was referring to the utter removal of the block puzzle thats a real fucken pain in the ass from the original.

The one where you were supposed to throw down a block from above to keep a switch below pressed, which is exactly what the Cane of Somaria lets you skip.

The GBA port replaced this with color switches, through which you can't just cheese your way with the Cane of Somaria.

The riddle here is still basically the same, it just uses different elements to fix the oversight.

Edited July 31, 2012 by Scarlet

[NinjaMonkey]

In Zelda, it's the terrible underwater control, although only OoT and TP had it really bad.

What "terrible underwater controls"? I thought that they were alright, myself.

Edited July 31, 2012 by NinjaMonkey

[Scarlet]

What "terrible underwater controls"? I thought that they were alright, myself.

Having to constantly go into the menu to (de-)equip the iron boots whenever you want to go up/down in the water is pretty terrible if you ask me.

Supposedly the 3DS remake fixed this in some way, but I haven't played it.

[Loki Laufeyson]

The one where you were supposed to throw down a block from above to keep a switch below pressed, which is exactly what the Cane of Somaria lets you skip.

The GBA port replaced this with color switches, through which you can't just cheese your way with the Cane of Somaria.

The riddle here is still basically the same, it just uses different elements to fix the oversight.

A bit, i guess but it is dumbed down because the new puzzle is a million times easier to get through. (cuz theres a switch crystal like, only two rooms before that there room. Thus making it easier in the long run. :B

The 3DS remake's boot switching thing made it so the boots are an item instead of like, having to go all the way to equip screen and junk. So you just tap the boots with the stylus and bam.

Other things that the 3DS version did vs the original:

Had a camera pan down to that one whole in the middle tower room when you raise the water levels. (So you wont miss that room down there.)

Raised the Time Block up so its impossible to miss in the Longshot room.

The places that you raise the water level at, now have markings that show how far the water level raises.

On top of the above, they made it color coded so you can FIND the rooms where you raise the water level:

Edited July 31, 2012 by Rhaegar Targaryen