Etrian Odyssey Mafia - Game Over

[Aere]

Lemme clarify - breadcrumbing is stupid, unless your role is directly harmful to the town (like PGO), in which case, it should be stated plainly. There's a time and place to drop hints about your role, and early D1 isn't it.

I want to sig this.

[Paperblade]

Lemme clarify - breadcrumbing is stupid, unless your role is directly harmful to the town (like PGO), in which case, it should be stated plainly. There's a time and place to drop hints about your role, and early D1 isn't it.

Okay. Yes, I agree with that.

[scorri]

Also paper: I was originally annoyed at both Shinori and Cam for dropping hints about their role without actually saying how they were hurtful to town. Once Cam clarified that he was claiming a granny type role, I was no longer upset with him for that part of his role dropping because I agree that's important to share. I am still annoyed with his other role hinting stuff, but that's not important now.

[Paperblade]

I need to talk to the host about something and might be getting forcesubbed as a result.

[scorri]

Welp. Should we uh pause game until Manix reappears? Or is it ok for the rest of us to continue posting?

[Paperblade]

I don't know how important it is or if he'll deem a sub needed

[eclipse]

Paused with the same reasons as Paperblade.

[scorri]

Uh ok then. I feel like it's probably best to just pause the game until Manix gets back. That's only like 2 hours, and with two people not being able to post out of 12, I feel like it's better to just wait. Unless other people disagree with this?

[Shinori]

I'll wait but since I'm posting now i will state, the supposed argument about RVS vote vs normal votes was because I was asked why did it matter or something like that. I'll look for the post when it is unpaused.

[Grace]

okay hold on, I need to figure out stuff

(ie, what the heck is going on)

Using Haltshot!

yeah don't say anything until I say so.

[Grace]

Okay so, I've gotten the stuff from the relevant parties

I still need to think about this; but I'm not home yet. I should be able to figure out exactly what to do when I get home.

well I have an idea, but still. I shouldn't have to modkill anyone, in theory. Although that is subject to change.

Still no posting until I completely determine what needs to be done.

[Grace]

Using Riot Gun on Elieson!

"He did what!" Were the words the reverberated around the Plaza. Everyone looked around, trying to find the source. Everyone saw that Quinn and Tiara were talking just at the edge of the Plaza. Tiara had just got back from her little shooting practice in the Labyrinth, and did her face instill fear in the town's eyes. Her face was one of pure anger.

She quickly started to storm toward the group. Everyone felt like they could possibly be shot down there and then.

"Alright, everyone move! Except for you, Halsh." Tiara cocked her gun, and looked menacingly around at the town. Everyone complied to her demands.

"I can't believe you, Halsh. Anything you'd like to say before I unload the Riot Gun on you?" Tiara threatened. Halsh did not speak a word.

The only thing heard after that was a flurry of gunshots, and the collapsing of Halsh's now dead body.

Elieson has been unfortunately modkilled for accidentally breaking NOC, and he was:

Dear Elieson,

You are Halsh, the Landsknecht. Proficient in use of both swords and axes, your fighting style is very offense minded. Having said that, you still have a good amount of defensive prowess, and are quite possibly, even given that, one of the less useful classes in the game.

On your off days, you play the flute and hide away in your house. Like a true hero.

Once during the night, you may reply to your Role PM with Night X - War Cry for USER!. USER will be inspired by your war cry, and they will get another use of their ability. This only applies to certain abilities, which are unknown to you.

Once during the night, you may reply to your Role PM with Night X - Arm Heal.. You will focus to strengthen your arms, preventing you from being roleblocked the next night.

You are aligned with The Guild. You win when all threats have been eliminated.

Now, for stuff about this. Some stuff was said in IRC which could have been construed as breaking NOC, because it very heavily hinted at his alignment to a certain player. However, please don't berate Elie for this, because I think it was an innocent slip, but not one that could go unpunished.

Day One resumes. I will extend the phase by 2 and a half hours because of the delay. Phase ends at 2:30 AM GMT on 8/16.

Votals to come.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Manix

[eclipse]

Oh good grief. I'm in no mood to reread anything after the fiasco in both mafias. Maybe tomorrow.

[Grace]

Votals:

Iris (0): Paperblade, Shinori, Aere

Shinori (1): Helios, Rapier, scorri

Aere (0): Elieson, CT075

Rapier (0): Aere

Delirium (0): Strider, Elieson

Strider (0): Iris

CT075 (1): scorri, Iris, Elieson, Strider

Elieson (0): Paperblade, Rapier, Helios, Delirium

Strider (0): Paperblade

Helios (4)(L-2): eclipse, Shinori, Paperblade, Iris

scorri (1): CT075

Not voting: Aere, Helios, Rapier, Delirium

Voting History:

Paperblade: Iris > Elieson > Strider > Helios

Helios: Shinori > Unvote > Elieson > Unvote

Elieson: Aere > CT075 > Core

Aere: Rapier > Iris > Unvote

CT075: Aere > Unvote > scorri

Strider: Delirium > Unvote > CT075

Iris: Strider > CT075 > Unvote > Helios

Shinori: Iris > Helios

Rapier: Shinori > Elieson > ForcedUnvote

scorri: CT075 > Unvote > Shinori

Delirium: Elieson > ForcedUnvote

eclipse: Helios

All votes on Elieson have automatically been moved to ##Unvote because of the modkill.

42 hours and 30 minutes remain in the day.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention: With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch outright.

I suspect most of you probably would have assumed that anyway, but hey

Edited August 14, 2012 by Manix

[Shinori]

First off, the modkill sucks but I don't want to nolynch to compensate.

Why does it matter whether it's a RVS vote or a legit vote? If you still really want to know, it's the former w/ a contrived reason, but really, Shinori.

Also, not feeling the need to go after Cam.

##Unvote

This is why I explained on the argument about why it mattered if it was a Legit vote or a RVS vote. Both have different meanings and they can both be taking different ways. If she wanted to out right lynch cam at the time she had voted him that would have been extremely suspicious. I was asked why it mattered I answered that question.

Now let me break down Scorri's post.

So first of all, I consider you saying what I'm doing illogical attacking how I'm playing. Maybe it wasn't intended to come across that way, but that's how I read it. Second of all, it's always been partial gut. I never meant to claim it wasn't partially gut. Honestly, it's probably safe to assume that any of my reads are at least partially gut. That's just the way I play.

Okay first off I wasn't meaning it to attack your style of play. I don't ever attack someone's style of play. Have you seen how I play most of the time?

Ok, you're right. You never claimed to be PGO or some such thing. What you did do is request to not be visited. Which honestly to me just always seems off. I'm sure there's a reason for it, but with another role claiming to be unhelpful if someone visits, I'm not going to trust both of them.

Ugh. So the only thing I could really think of to say to this was more stuff directly involving my role so I won't say anything really involving this. However now that you bring it up, yes Cam is pretty suspicious to me. Still sticking with Helios though because it gives me better reads on Iris, and to a more minor extent, paper/eclipse. Also I think he's scum.

You then start jumping on Iris for voting Cam to make him care. You call her vote stupid and say that it's pointless. To me, I a) don't agree with this and b) don't see how this is helpful at all. Her vote was made to try and get Cam to try and be a little more present and caring. Which is standard behavior. Yes you can claim that this is so overused that it won't help anything, but the fact of the matter is that Cam at that point had votes on him. If he didn't start to try and talk more or input more, he'd seem more suspicious, thus gaining him more votes. So yes, it may be overused, but that doesn't mean it's ineffective. To me, this seemed like you picked something that you could argue about, making it seem like you were trying to help the town, while not actually helping the town move along.

But the entire thing was ineffective. The votes went onto cam and he still didn't give two shits. Did you see his play even after that? He made it blatantly obvious that he didn't care. And if someone legitimately doesn't care then one or two RVS votes won't do diddly squat. I've had upwards of 3 RVS votes on me before and just completly ignored them in games, they don't matter unless their is reasoning behind them, which brings us to the next quote.

You then mention more about your role, and then jump back to Iris, and start arguing about the difference between RVS votes and serious votes. Fluff that makes it seem like you're contributing.

Making one post on the difference between a random vote and a serious vote does NOT equal arguing Scorri. So I don't quite see how that's fluff, but okay. Refer to the above quote and reply and then look at this, if a vote is random it doesn't matter if a vote is serious with reasoning then it might be something to make someone care more about a game, but most likely it won't help. However at that point in time in the game if it had been a completely serious vote on day 1 IN RVS STAGE with very little reasoning, then how is that not scummy/opportunistic?

Also didn't really mention more about my role, just clarified on what i had already stated.

You then jump on the Helios wagon. A safe jump because Helios has done the dreaded list post without saying someone who's scum. Clearly this means he's a safe person to put a vote on that doesn't require any new input from you. Echo posts.

Echo part of the thoughts that were stated but posted my own as well. I'm sorry was Helios not being scummy? Are you saying that him being scummy didn't deserve the vote? Also what about the other supposed 'jumps' onto the Helios wagon? Also if you are going to try implying I was wagon hopping to look town then can you explain why I was the second person to vote Helios?

And now you're back to my vote on you.

Yes your vote on me because I'm supposedly not actively trying to really help the town even though I am scum hunting and poking at various thoughts that confuse me, such as your confusion about me, solely, voting Helios for being scummy? Question Scorri: What are your thoughts on Helios? Scum read or town read? I'm curious.

So basically, most of your posts have either been arguing about RVS stuff or voting Helios for echo'd reasons and list posting. All of which is nice safe stuff to do without really contributing much to the forward motion of the town. So yeah. I'm sticking with my vote for now.

Actually voting someone for a reaction does not equal arguing over RVS stuff, neither does one post explaining the difference between RVS vote and a legit vote. Also I'd really like to hear how I'm not actually actively helping the town. You do have me pretty confused there.

[Shinori]

i have bad feelings about scorri (feels like she's trying to contribute without actually contributing [and i'm like 80% sure this has been said before]) and helios (see everybody else for a good idea of my feelings)

god i suck at this game

##vote scorri

Question for people:

What do you guys think about Cam's vote here for scorri? Refer to post #145 for the full post if you want.

Something I feel directly connected to this is Scorri's vote on me, here: post #118

##Vote:Shinori

Ok yeah. Your posts seem off to me, like you're trying to fit in and seem like you're doing stuff without committing to anything. Also, I don't like the bit where you told people to not interact with you at night, especially since we have a granny claim.

What are other peoples thoughts on these two votes specifically?

Also opinions on Scorri/Helios interactions/not interactions, however you will it.

[eclipse]

scorri - Don't care for "partially gut is how I roll" (that's not something worth voting over ATM), but most of her logic makes sense so far. I'm not sold that Shinori is posting fluff, but. . .

Shinori - Less whining about RVS, more participation. Whining doesn't help with reads. Prodding someone so that they'll scumhunt is a Good Thing; their reactions and whatnot are valuable if they turn up dead. Next, what was the point of mentioning that you don't want visitors IN YOUR FIRST POST, if you aren't actively harmful? It doesn't contribute to scumhunting at all. You're demanding a lot of answers, which is a null read (it can be argued that it's either forcing interactions or looking like you're contributing while adding no thoughts of your own). Then you ask questions about other people's votes as the last post I see? That feels like you're trying to draw attention away from yourself.

Fluff has no purpose. The last set of questions don't strike me as fluff, because they do seem to have a purpose - draw attention elsewhere. Shinori, do me a huge favor, read Xenoblade postgame, and try to follow what Paper and I said. We didn't type that out for our own health.

[eclipse]

With that, can you please organize your targets coherently and stop tunneling scorri?

[Shinori]

Making one more post because I feel that it's necessary and directly involves this scorri/cam/Helios thing.

Scorri:

Post #152

Yes we do. Which is part of the reason I'm voting Shinori, cause I'm not sold on both of those roles being town and I'm getting worse feels from his posts than from Cams. True, it's only slightly more than Cam, but I gotta work with what I've got.

Post #178

Also paper: I was originally annoyed at both Shinori and Cam for dropping hints about their role without actually saying how they were hurtful to town. Once Cam clarified that he was claiming a granny type role, I was no longer upset with him for that part of his role dropping because I agree that's important to share. I am still annoyed with his other role hinting stuff, but that's not important now.

I'm sorry, does no one find this post scummy at all? Both me and cam have said something similar but because cam stated his role variant he is suddenly more town than me even though he hasn't said much more than that and he supposedly 'didn't care'. Not to mention she hasn't ONCE mentioned helios except for in her post involving me and saying hi to him at the beginning of the game. If you then look at her posts involving Cam she really hasn't said that much to him OR about him except berate him about claiming and stuff which I find silly and awkard. She said he was slightly scummy but as soon as he said he was a granny/PGO variant thing he was suddenly more town, Refer to bolded above as well.

Cam:

Okay onto Cam:

Supposedly doesn't care, doesn't say much except for saying people shouldn't visit him and doc doesn't work on him and investigate is a bad idea.

Post #84: He confirms that he has a granny type of ability. Okay. Now refer to the underlined part in the first Scorri quote. I feel that this is most likely true and because of my role and various thoughts I'm feeling that cam is most likely scum PGO of some sort of variant with another ability since he said he had two abilities.

Post #88: He mentions that paperblade could just vote Helios while waiting for rein, not much to say here pretty null read but I don't like how cam's voting process is at this point time, he voted aere only to unvote after this post and then vote Scorri, which I'll get to in a minute. Why didn't he vote anyone else? I guess that's the whole not caring or whatever but still, didn't mention Helios that much at all really except for responding jokingly to him in a post, asking paper why wasn't he voting him while waiting for Rein, and in one other post that is mentioned below.

Post #145: A post I have already linked before but now is directly involved. He complains about some of the stuff Rein says and responds to him in fashion. He then states that Elieson is scummy for rolefishing:

i really really hate myself for giving in this easily because now i feel like elieson is possible scum rolefishing

But then he states this here:

i have bad feelings about scorri (feels like she's trying to contribute without actually contributing [and i'm like 80% sure this has been said before]) and helios (see everybody else for a good idea of my feelings)

god i suck at this game

##vote scorri

It's only bad feelings not really any reasoning, and one mention on helios. Saying that he thinks both of the two are scum, I really can't help but think that this is some sort of distancing, especially combined with Scorri's play so far.

Okay done with him, now:

Helios:

Okay, Helios, the person I am currently voting for. Early on doesn't do much, RVS votes on me, mentions that Scorri is in the game, really don't think that it was necessary and I don't like it.

Post #82: Helios's town list. A list full of town reads and no scum reads. Says cam "Doesn't give two shits right now" Also doesn't mention Scorri what-so-ever here. No scum reads. Don't like this, Scummy as heck for this.

Post #103: Votes for elieson, confirmed townie now, says I was opportunistic on my vote, says Cam's PGO play is pretty normal for most PGOs with claiming early and all that jazz and that Cam should step up his game because he still looks scummy, doesn't mention the thoughts on my claim at all though. In regards to saying that we were opportunistic he even states that he would do the same thing to anyone else and it wasn't because we voted him and even chooses to drop Cam's name here. Why did he do that and was it needed? No, it wasn't. And the reasoning for his Elieson vote was as followed:

You've been asking others for their opinions, but I don't think you've really given your own. You've been hounding Cam all game, role fishing, ranting, and then Eclipse says two things and you jump to me? Not looking too good my man.

Also for the record this isn't an OMGUS so don't even try and play it off like it is.

Stated that it wasn't an OMGUS like a boss, considering that Elie never voted him. I also don't quite like the part where it sounds like he is defending Cam, even though he said Cam was scummy.

Finaly post #122: Unvotes elie, misread him supposedly or something. Says to paperblade and Iris that they misread what he said supposedly, really not much happens until you get to where he mentions Cam.

Cam's behavior in this game is still not making me feel good about him, but at the same time he still reminds me of Haze from CPM who was apathetic town after claiming.

Really feel like this part of his post since it was mentioned for a second time(check post #103 for verification on the first time) is him partially defending Cam, and I REALLY DO NOT LIKE THIS.

Says he wants more from Aere, okay, understandable, then leaves without a vote on anyone, not understandable.

Finally rechecking Helios's posts; he does not mention Scorri what-so-ever except for to say that she's in the game. That was helpful. Doesn't mention Cam all that much except to say that his play reminds him of Haze in SFMM2 and that he is partially scummy and needs to step up his play and it really sounds like he is defending him.

All-in-all, I really feel that all three of the above players are scum, hardly any interactions with each other, distancing between scorri/cam, mostly all 3 said they thought I was scummy, which is whatever, but specifically Scorri and her saying that Cam claiming made him more townie than me stood out to me. I highly feel this is where our pressure should be at at the moment.

[Shinori]

Oh hey Eclipse posted, my bad.

Hopefully that is more to your liking Eclipse. I also felt I was partially tunneling Scorri but noticed a few things while doing it and felt the need to post all of this. Hopefully that helps. ;\

[eclipse]

I'm just gonna assume you missed context, because your logic is making my head hurt.

In regards to this, can you think of a good reason why a town PGO would want to keep silent about their role? I mentioned that if Cam was actively harmful to the town, he should say so plainly, which he eventually did. Once he did, he didn't look so stupid for telling people to not target him. You, on the other hand. . .I still have no idea why you told people not to target you as your first post.

I'm not happy with Cam being apathetic, but I have bigger fish to fry ATM. If I'm confident that all my other suspects aren't scummy, then Cam's apathy comes next (that's a not-too-subtle hint to start caring).

I've already said what I wanted to about Helios, but your logic regarding scorri being scum because you think Helios is scum and they are trying not to associate with each other is painful. First, you're assuming that Helios is scum. Second, you're assuming that scorri is also scum. Lastly, you're assuming that it's a tactic that Helios would use. It's a lot of assumptions to make, and it falls flat on its face if either one of them is town. I haven't mentioned Iris until now; does that mean we're scumbuddies?

Start taking a look at everyone else. Tunneling, especially this early, isn't productive.

[Shinori]

I've looked at most of the players in this game besides Paperblade who I have talked with and asked him something in thread, and Aere who I normally don't get much of a read from and who is normally inactive.

I don't find Scorri scummy SOLELY because Helios is scummy, I find her scummy because of her words and context about me and Cam, because in her words she said it was important to share, so as you know someone wouldn't kill themselves and it wouldn't be wasted. Where as targeting me would still waste a night and be unhelpful to the town. Also her not mention Helios AT ALL when he is the biggest wagon in the game at the moment doesn't click with you Eclipse? Why is that? Normally people would post their thoughts on a player that is at L-2 in a phase that, frankly, hasn't lasted super long and isn't that far in.

And yes it does fall flat on it's face if either of them flip town, but how are we to know that unless we lynch one of them. Running with no info means we have to go with what we have and these are all connections between three specific players that connect well. The only reason I mentioned the whole fact specifically with them not mentioning each other is because it's a triangle of players that aren't doing it. It's not like you not mentioning one person. It's three people that aren't mentioning each other at all for the most part.

If it was something like Cam had mentioned scorri and not helios, Scorri had mentioned both of them, and Helios had mentioned neither of them it might end up a little different, but it's three people that are blatantly ignoring each other for the most part. Cam also has not posted his thoughts really on the largest wagon player at the moment either. Why not?

What of my logic is really that bad Eclipse? Could you explain that part to me?

[Shinori]

Also who exactly am I tunneling now? I posted thoughts and question on three different people that I find scummy with reasonings provided. Of which one person was just recently added to that scum list(Cam) and the other person was just a person that i got into a small argument over already in this game(Scorri).

[CT075]

I'm not happy with Cam being apathetic, but I have bigger fish to fry ATM. If I'm confident that all my other suspects aren't scummy, then Cam's apathy comes next (that's a not-too-subtle hint to start caring).

you may have to wait for a day or two because this is not what i want to be worrying about just before a 24-hour travel

If it was something like Cam had mentioned scorri and not helios, Scorri had mentioned both of them, and Helios had mentioned neither of them it might end up a little different, but it's three people that are blatantly ignoring each other for the most part. Cam also has not posted his thoughts really on the largest wagon player at the moment either. Why not?

if you had actually read my post i addressed helios

hell, you even quoted it

i have bad feelings about scorri (feels like she's trying to contribute without actually contributing [and i'm like 80% sure this has been said before]) and helios (see everybody else for a good idea of my feelings)

i see no reason to bother typing out a long fluff wall when everything i have to say has been said already (most of it said better than i could have put it)

[Grace]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention: With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch outright.

I suspect most of you probably would have assumed that anyway, but hey