First Hard Mode Run.

[Shadow Mir]

I have to disagree with some of you guys in regards to Kieran. It's actually really easy to train him up to a similar level to Ike's team when he joins Ike in HM. I just give him Geoffrye's Paragon in 3-9 and let him solo as much of the chapter as possible (blockade around the SE houses with Kieran, Geoffrey and Calill, Kieran proceeds to solo the rest of the map and 'boss hound' the boss). If you use him enough in 2-3 too, then it isn't that difficult to get him somewhere between level 15 and 18.

I've always thought Kieran > Titania on Hard mode because Titania's significantly more fragile (Kieran is superior in HP and Defence) and can't handle 4-4 (too fragile to blockade on the lowest level, but I've found that the best strategy in HM is to blockade in the northwest treasure room, which you need to climb ledges to get to early in the chapter). The only problem is Kieran's Speed caps at 33 so he can't double the Spirits in 4-E.

Really though, Kieran is pretty much Haar minus flying ability. I'd only recommend Kieran if you want more mounted units in 4-E (Jill and Haar are usually enough). But overall I've found Kieran to be the most reliable Paladin.

Personally, I can't agree on Kieran > Titania at all. Also, minor nitpick, but Kieran's speed caps at only 31.

Exaggeration. Marcia can be a good endgame unit if she doesn't get STR screwed. Dumping BEXP on her only makes those chances for that worse, since the higher growth rates (everything except MAG) gets first dibs on the RNG. Dumping Energy Drops on her in that case will not help her. Tanith might be worth it.

You're underestimating Mia's performance. She's a great unit throughout the game, and is one of the few beorc units that doesn't need White Tide to double Auras. She can use a Brave Sword + Her own A support (+2 Atk) to deal 56 damage total. Using Blood Tide makes it 76 damage. 2x Blood Tide is a ORKO.

And before you mention it: Parity.

If you can train Keiran adequately (not all that hard if you take him to Tibarn's route anyway), I can agree with this. His support is kinda atrocious, but Titania's is probably worse. So yeah, Keiran > Titania if you train him.

In my humble opinion, Tanith's even worse off tham Marcia because her speed isn't that hot.

Ehhh... the math looks kinda off to me. Are you sure you didn't mean another weapon? And if you were using the tides, you'd be shooting yourself in the foot using Parity, as Parity would nullify the tide boosts.

I disagree.

[HeroMystic]

I should rephrase about Marcia. She's great if you can keep her STR up, but if she gets STR screwed then you more or less wasted your time. When The Gentleman stated "invest EXP and resources", I assume he meant stat items too, so Tanith's SPD deficit is easier to fix than Marcia's STR.

Ehhh... the math looks kinda off to me. Are you sure you didn't mean another weapon? And if you were using the tides, you'd be shooting yourself in the foot using Parity, as Parity would nullify the tide boosts.

Good point on the Parity.

As for the math:

Brave Sword is 9 MT

Mia's STR(cap) is 31

Auras are... huh.

I must've looked at the wrong stats at some point. Yeah, I'm wrong.

So 42(A Support) - 30(Aura DEF) = 12(48 damage for 4 hits). x2 Blood Tide is 22(88 damage for 4 hits). To compare, (A Support)Mia with Vauge Katti deals 23(46 damage for 2 hits). x2 Blood Tide is 33(66 damage for 2 hits). Still better with a Brave Sword, but with less flexibility.

[Shadow Mir]

I should rephrase about Marcia. She's great if you can keep her STR up, but if she gets STR screwed then you more or less wasted your time. When The Gentleman stated "invest EXP and resources", I assume he meant stat items too, so Tanith's SPD deficit is easier to fix than Marcia's STR.

Bold: Sorry, but I just don't buy that, mainly because speedwings are much more contested than energy drops. And knowing that, I'd say it's pretty hypocritical to defend Tanith getting a speedwing and then turn around and shoot down the possibility of Marcia getting an energy drop.

Edited August 19, 2012 by Golden Cucco

[HeroMystic]

Bold: Sorry, but I just don't buy that, mainly because speedwings are much more contested than energy drops. And knowing that, I'd say it's pretty hypocritical to defend Tanith getting a speedwing and then turn around and shoot down the possibility of Marcia getting an energy drop.

I didn't.

Exaggeration. Marcia can be a good endgame unit if she doesn't get STR screwed. Dumping BEXP on her only makes those chances for that worse, since the higher growth rates (everything except MAG) gets first dibs on the RNG. Dumping Energy Drops on her in that case will not help her.

EDIT: As for the speedwings, who cares if they're contested for? This is obviously not an efficiency run nor is it a tier list. You can do whatever you want with those items.

Edited August 19, 2012 by HeroMystic

[Shadow Mir]

I didn't.

EDIT: As for the speedwings, who cares if they're contested for? This is obviously not an efficiency run nor is it a tier list. You can do whatever you want with those items.

Okay, so I misinterpreted. I still don't think Tanith's all that great - she's marginally better than Sigrun, as I see it.

[Wulfgar85]

Bolded: I disagree. This isn't FE9 where the rainbow paladins are high/top tier.

The only Paladin worth bringing is Titania, since she has the highest STR out of all of them. Marcia's STR growth is really whacky, and Tanith/Sigrun aren't any better. Their only saving grace is Triangle Attack shenanigans.

Your best Endgame mount is, undoubtedly, Jill. Once trained, her SPD (the most important stat in the game) surpasses Haar, which allows her to double with Urvan, though she also works just fine with a forged Silver Axe.

After that, it depends on who has the highest speed and the highest strength. Since the OP said he wants to try without royals, losing both Mia and Haar are actually significant losses, especially Mia.

Right now people that i'm bringing into end game are Nolan, Edward, Jill, Neph, Shin and Soren. That still leaves me with 4 spots. Elincia, Kieran are a maybe at this point and since both Haar and Mia are died i think i will end up bringing 2 Royals with me. I have never used Stefan before but who he work out as a goood replace for Mia.

[aku chi]

I have never used Stefan before but who he work out as a goood replace for Mia.

Stefan will work as a Mia replacement in the sense that he is a similarly competent Trueblade. He will not work as a Mia replacement in the sense that he does not provide a +Atk support for Ike. But perhaps Soren is already doing that in your run.

[HeroMystic]

Right now people that i'm bringing into end game are Nolan, Edward, Jill, Neph, Shin and Soren. That still leaves me with 4 spots. Elincia, Kieran are a maybe at this point and since both Haar and Mia are died i think i will end up bringing 2 Royals with me. I have never used Stefan before but who he work out as a goood replace for Mia.

What Aku Chi said as far as Stefan goes.

I usually bring Tibarn with me regardless of my motives with Endgame. Elincia is good due to her high versatility. Since both Mia and Haar died, I don't see why Kieran and Titania shouldn't be used.

[Wulfgar85]

Stefan will work as a Mia replacement in the sense that he is a similarly competent Trueblade. He will not work as a Mia replacement in the sense that he does not provide a +Atk support for Ike. But perhaps Soren is already doing that in your run.

In my game at the moment Ike has a A support with Titania. I had Mia with a A support with Nephenee. I was trying something different this game. Would Kieran make and ok support for Nephenee. they are the only 2 members of ikes team with out supports at the moment that i'm using.

[MacLovin]

FireXWind is pretty decent.

And, FE favors favoritism anyways.

[Wulfgar85]

FireXWind is pretty decent.

And, FE favors favoritism anyways.

Than i think my End game team is set almost set with Edward, Jill, Nolan, Nephenee, Kieran, Titania, Soren, Shinon.

The last 2 spots will be between, Tibarn, Elincia and Stefan. I think the hardest thing will be keeping Micaiah alive she really under level, but is only a healer at this point in time.

[Wulfgar85]

Than i think my End game team is set almost set with Edward, Jill, Nolan, Nephenee, Kieran, Titania, Soren, Shinon.

The last 2 spots will be between, Tibarn, Elincia and Stefan. I think the hardest thing will be keeping Micaiah alive she really under level, but is only a healer at this point in time.

So 3-13 is becoming annoying quick. The first 2 times i have left the computers on roam because i want the ballista guys to take dowm the hawks for me. edward and Nolan can hold down the left side no problem while i have Jill, Zihark, and Volug holding down the right. in the middle i have Sloth and Leo making sure no one can get up. The first tim the NPC with the javlin move on turn 10 leading sloth to get double team and killed. The Second time i move that NPC out of the way but for some stupid reason i put Leo on the side instead of in the middle. s o again around turn 10 a laguz seeks up kills leo leaving sloth to get double team again. I know my mistakes are fix able but its still annoying. also i alway hated the fact you can move Micaiah out of the green line. Even with the Physic staff she can't reach half of the people to heal them.

sorry for the the poor grammer to lazy and tired to check it.

[Vicious Sal]

Put the Allies on HAlt, use tauroneo & Fiona to remove the javelin halberdier and the archers/snipers on the ballista, so that you can put a unit like Nolan where the halberdier is and put leo on the ballista. He kills birds as well since iirc the ballista is fixed damage because it only uses MT iirc.

Or just dump all BEXP on Jill and see if she can rush and kill Ike if she's 3rd tier. Which is highly doubtful, but still.

[Dr. Silent]

3-13 can be quite tricky. My strategy is just to hold the frontline for about three turns (place NPC on Halt initially) and kill as much as possible (mostly with Nolan, Jill, and Micaiah+Purge). I take every single available ally with me and place them all along the edges of the 'line' (the ones I won't be using for battles, such as Ed, Leo, Laura, Aran, Meg) so that the Hawk laguz don't fly over it and end the chapter. By around turn 3 or 4, retreat all your allies backwards as the laguz will kill most of the NPCs at the end of the turn. Then put the NPC on Roam so they attack things - this enables Nolan/Jill to kill injured Tigers as they probably can't 1RKO them at full health. Micaiah can also kill things that move directly below the top level wall with regular tomes. Eventually, the NPCs will start being killed off regardless of whether or not you keep them healed. At this point, move Nolan to the northwest staircase and Jill to the northeast. They can blockade there for the few remaining turns. Make sure the rest of the units are on the top level barring the Hawk laguz from flying over.

This strategy has worked for me every time. Ask if you need more details.

Alternatively...

If you grabbed the Beastfoe skill in 1-4 and the Vantage skill from the chests in 1-E then you can give them both to Nolan, along with a Bowgun or two, and let him solo the entire map (except for Greil Mercs), but also give Paragon to Jill and let her have the occasional hit-and-run (she will most likely take an attack or two, too, so you can heal her with Micaiah for Micaiah's experience) because Jill is pretty much the best unit in the game and needs the experience. Of course, I doubt you grabbed the Vantage skill in 1-E because, to get it before the thieves get it (or get to the thieves and kill them), you have to seriously abuse BK/Nailah/Muarim.

[Wulfgar85]

3-13 can be quite tricky. My strategy is just to hold the frontline for about three turns (place NPC on Halt initially) and kill as much as possible (mostly with Nolan, Jill, and Micaiah+Purge). I take every single available ally with me and place them all along the edges of the 'line' (the ones I won't be using for battles, such as Ed, Leo, Laura, Aran, Meg) so that the Hawk laguz don't fly over it and end the chapter. By around turn 3 or 4, retreat all your allies backwards as the laguz will kill most of the NPCs at the end of the turn. Then put the NPC on Roam so they attack things - this enables Nolan/Jill to kill injured Tigers as they probably can't 1RKO them at full health. Micaiah can also kill things that move directly below the top level wall with regular tomes. Eventually, the NPCs will start being killed off regardless of whether or not you keep them healed. At this point, move Nolan to the northwest staircase and Jill to the northeast. They can blockade there for the few remaining turns. Make sure the rest of the units are on the top level barring the Hawk laguz from flying over.

This strategy has worked for me every time. Ask if you need more details.

Alternatively...

If you grabbed the Beastfoe skill in 1-4 and the Vantage skill from the chests in 1-E then you can give them both to Nolan, along with a Bowgun or two, and let him solo the entire map (except for Greil Mercs), but also give Paragon to Jill and let her have the occasional hit-and-run (she will most likely take an attack or two, too, so you can heal her with Micaiah for Micaiah's experience) because Jill is pretty much the best unit in the game and needs the experience. Of course, I doubt you grabbed the Vantage skill in 1-E because, to get it before the thieves get it (or get to the thieves and kill them), you have to seriously abuse BK/Nailah/Muarim.

i did grab the vantage skill i gave pass to nailah and let her run up and kill the thiefs before the could get a chest. then i ran her back to the start and left her there. beastfoe was the one thing a forgot to get.

[MacLovin]

3-13 is usually have a 3rd tier DB go over and kill Ike ...:P

If you can't do that, then try stalling it out for the full 15ish turns.

And don't be afraid to use resources to buff your main combat units (Edward/Nolan/Jill by the looks of it)

[Jave]

Believe it or not, even untrained units like Meg and Fiona can contribute in this map by plugging some of the holes in the far north. No enemies here have range, so if you position your units right, the weak ones should never get hit. Any units you wish to train should be guarding the big ledge in the middle with ranged weapons, since that's where the most laguz gather.

Ike will walk forward in the last two (or three) turns. No 2nd Tier unit can realistically face him without getting mauled to pieces, so run away or put him to Sleep with Laura (you should have that Sleep staff from that base convo). You can also have Micaiah attack Ike with Purge to trigger an interesting conversation.

Oh, and at the very least put the Yellow Units on Roam during the last few turns. You don't want to miss 3-13 Archer in ACTION!

[Wulfgar85]

Believe it or not, even untrained units like Meg and Fiona can contribute in this map by plugging some of the holes in the far north. No enemies here have range, so if you position your units right, the weak ones should never get hit. Any units you wish to train should be guarding the big ledge in the middle with ranged weapons, since that's where the most laguz gather.

Ike will walk forward in the last two (or three) turns. No 2nd Tier unit can realistically face him without getting mauled to pieces, so run away or put him to Sleep with Laura (you should have that Sleep staff from that base convo). You can also have Micaiah attack Ike with Purge to trigger an interesting conversation.

Oh, and at the very least put the Yellow Units on Roam during the last few turns. You don't want to miss 3-13 Archer in ACTION!

I finally got through it this morning. I would like Jill, ed, and Nolan to have lvl a couple more times, but they are all around lvl 14 in tier 2. All 3 are getting paragon in part 4.

[Wulfgar85]

I finally got through it this morning. I would like Jill, ed, and Nolan to have lvl a couple more times, but they are all around lvl 14 in tier 2. All 3 are getting paragon in part 4.

I can't remember can you switch skill around while your making your 3 teams before part 4.

[Dr. Silent]

i did grab the vantage skill i gave pass to nailah and let her run up and kill the thiefs before the could get a chest. then i ran her back to the start and left her there. beastfoe was the one thing a forgot to get.

Give it to Jill or Nolan + Brave Axe and you still might get in a lucky shot or two. Both can two-shot the Cats with a Brave Axe if their Strength went the right way. Nice idea with Pass too...must try, never thought of that, although I'd be more inclined to use the BK as you can unequip him and stop him rampaging for the most part.

Oh, and at the very least put the Yellow Units on Roam during the last few turns. You don't want to miss 3-13 Archer in ACTION!

This.

I finally got through it this morning. I would like Jill, ed, and Nolan to have lvl a couple more times, but they are all around lvl 14 in tier 2. All 3 are getting paragon in part 4.

Considering you trained up all three, that's not too bad at this point in the game. You can't realistically get them to third tier before Part 4 in Hard mode, unless you hyper-abuse.

I can't remember can you switch skill around while your making your 3 teams before part 4.

Well, all three groups have access to the same Convoy, so you can exchange things between groups using it.

Before playing though 3-E, deposit the two Paragons that Ike's team have into the Convoy so that Jill, Nolan and Ed can access them in 4-P (if you leave them all in Micaiah's team, anyway).

[Wulfgar85]

Give it to Jill or Nolan + Brave Axe and you still might get in a lucky shot or two. Both can two-shot the Cats with a Brave Axe if their Strength went the right way. Nice idea with Pass too...must try, never thought of that, although I'd be more inclined to use the BK as you can unequip him and stop him rampaging for the most part.

This.

Considering you trained up all three, that's not too bad at this point in the game. You can't realistically get them to third tier before Part 4 in Hard mode, unless you hyper-abuse.

Well, all three groups have access to the same Convoy, so you can exchange things between groups using it.

Before playing though 3-E, deposit the two Paragons that Ike's team have into the Convoy so that Jill, Nolan and Ed can access them in 4-P (if you leave them all in Micaiah's team, anyway).

Jill is staying on Micaih's team because of the desert lvl. Nolan and Edward when to Tibarn's team. Right now i having a few issue with 4-p but i think i know how to fix my problem. I'm learning that on hard mode i'll need to actually use Naesala, and Skrimir and that Sothe is useless atleast in my game. anyways heading to bed i'll try this lvl again in the morning.

[MacLovin]

Give it to Jill or Nolan + Brave Axe and you still might get in a lucky shot or two. Both can two-shot the Cats with a Brave Axe if their Strength went the right way. Nice idea with Pass too...must try, never thought of that, although I'd be more inclined to use the BK as you can unequip him and stop him rampaging for the most part.

This.

Considering you trained up all three, that's not too bad at this point in the game. You can't realistically get them to third tier before Part 4 in Hard mode, unless you hyper-abuse.

Well, all three groups have access to the same Convoy, so you can exchange things between groups using it.

Before playing though 3-E, deposit the two Paragons that Ike's team have into the Convoy so that Jill, Nolan and Ed can access them in 4-P (if you leave them all in Micaiah's team, anyway).

THere's a thing called a Master Crown.

You get one in 3-6.

[Dr. Silent]

Jill is staying on Micaih's team because of the desert lvl. Nolan and Edward when to Tibarn's team. Right now i having a few issue with 4-p but i think i know how to fix my problem. I'm learning that on hard mode i'll need to actually use Naesala, and Skrimir and that Sothe is useless atleast in my game. anyways heading to bed i'll try this lvl again in the morning.

Naesala and Skrimir are pretty much essential. You can't bring enough good units into Micaiah's team without screwing over one of your others teams so you have to use them.

THere's a thing called a Master Crown.

You get one in 3-6.

Anyone with half a brain is not going to promote a unit at level 14.

[Silith]

If your unit will gian key numbers in certain stats such as Str or Spd with the pomotion he would otherwise lack and therefor drop a huge amount in usability. Then why not? It's not like you are going to take them all to endgame anyways.

Or that you actrually need a maximum amount of level ups to win.

[Wulfgar85]

If your unit will gian key numbers in certain stats such as Str or Spd with the pomotion he would otherwise lack and therefor drop a huge amount in usability. Then why not? It's not like you are going to take them all to endgame anyways.

Or that you actrually need a maximum amount of level ups to win.

I am taking Jill Nolan and Edward to end game. so no master crown until lvl 20. Nolan and Edward might get some Bonus exp depend on what stats they have maxed.