Draft Mafia Round 2: AnonyDraft gameOver

[Shiki Ryougi]

I currently do not think Navo is quite viable as a lynch because it doesn't much fit the scum's plan to defend the main wagon except for townie points.

Not quite sure what to think of ScumNori. I have a mixed read on him, mainly in part due to his odd activity and voting preferences, and also his stance on active lurkers.

I have gut on Balboa, especially because of his #304. I don't like his stance on Socks (who I think is town) and his opinion on Robin's Egg, while founded in suspicion, seems hasty. I need to read more of him, but for the sake of having a vote down I will place it on him. ##Vote: Balboa

This has done nothing to change my opinion. I don't really understand what you're saying about Navo (clarify please), and don't place a vote for the sake of having a vote. I'm not asking you to place votes, but you should still scumhunt or w/e.

Matter of fact, you seem to be doing what I was accused of doing earlier. Coming when you're called and trying to appease.

[Shiki Ryougi]

And lol @ me being Rapier.

[Refakitty³]

This has done nothing to change my opinion. I don't really understand what you're saying about Navo (clarify please), and don't place a vote for the sake of having a vote. I'm not asking you to place votes, but you should still scumhunt or w/e.

Matter of fact, you seem to be doing what I was accused of doing earlier. Coming when you're called and trying to appease.

Navo defending Pluto does not seem scummy because the scum would likely much rather want to mislynch Pluto. The only reason Scum!Navo would want to defend Pluto is for townie cred.

[Rain Nijika]

I think this is a bad way to play, you should always be voting your biggest read, otherwise it has less conviction.

These posts are in between gathering reads and such. If you'd rather have me not post until I can safely vote for a player, then I will do so.

I don't like these two quotes from des Rois. You basically at one point say that you should always have a vote down on your scum read, but then you say that you don't want to vote until you have more knowledge. I'd been reading you as town, but this excuse for why you weren't voting makes me unhappy... That added to the fact that when someone calls you out on not voting you then put a vote down. It seems like you're talking out of both sides of your mouth and then try to appease people. I'm starting to be suspicious of you...

[Marisa Kirisame]

I currently do not think Navo is quite viable as a lynch because it doesn't much fit the scum's plan to defend the main wagon except for townie points.

this is a very weird bounceback from you finding him scummy for not scumhunting at the end of d1, especially when all he's done since then is continue to not scumhunt

have you considered that scum would indeed buddy a town wagon for townpoints, and how poorly done his defense was? again, navo could have started by actually addressing cases in specific instead of just ISOing and telling us how he didn't see scumtells.

bearknight is on navo by the way. i'm still fine with balboa wagon. dunno why balboa doesn't want to vote socks yet when he mentioned hating not having a vote down earlier and seems to be pretty sold on his own case.

moonside: why is scumnori worse than navo to you when he wasn't at the end of day 1? it also doesn't seem to match with your experience / lynch theory (which i heavily disagree with for reasons balboa stated)

lol do people actually think i'm shinori

[Shiki Ryougi]

Navo defending Pluto does not seem scummy because the scum would likely much rather want to mislynch Pluto. The only reason Scum!Navo would want to defend Pluto is for townie cred.

Why would scum rather mislynch Pluto over Navo (assuming Navo is town)? According to Moonside, Navo seems to have more experience, so...? What would be gained from mislynching an inactive over a slightly-less inactive?

moonside: why is scumnori worse than navo to you when he wasn't at the end of day 1? it also doesn't seem to match with your experience / lynch theory (which i heavily disagree with for reasons balboa stated)

Also a problem, though I'm not even sure where everybody is getting that Navo is so experienced.

[Refakitty³]

Why would scum rather mislynch Pluto over Navo (assuming Navo is town)? According to Moonside, Navo seems to have more experience, so...? What would be gained from mislynching an inactive over a slightly-less inactive?

I don't think you get it. My line of reasoning is that, assuming Navo was scum, he would rather want to lynch Pluto over defending him

he opposing argument is of course Navo was buddying Pluto for town credit when Pluto flipped town.

The opposing sides would cancel out in my opinion, therefore I don't think Navo is scum for the sole reason of buddying Pluto.

I also believe there may be a misunderstanding with my posts. Before posting reads and voting, I was simply trying to give an opinion while I was reading the thread. Do note I have had much less time then the rest of you to participate, mingle, and produce suspicions based on interactions, much like Bahamas. I am simply at a handicap here, I cannot be expected to be as caught up so easily as the rest of you. I also have time to devote to other things, such as a second Mafia game, and a chat-related business in 40 minutes that will be taking up my attention for the next 4 to 5 hours.

If you're unsatisfied with my content so far, I'm afraid there's not much I can actually do about it.

I'm not trying to appease anyone, although I may as well be trapped in a corner trying to explain my way out of it regardless.

[Refakitty³]

The opposing sides would cancel out in my opinion, therefore I don't think Navo is scum for the sole reason of buddying Pluto.

I'd like to add to this that Pluto had not been making much effort into scumhunting, and that WOULD be a reasonable claim for voting on him, however. I could support a wagon based on that reason, it's just that I feel there could be better people we could be lynching at the moment.

[Ochako Uraraka]

I currently do not think Navo is quite viable as a lynch because it doesn't much fit the scum's plan to defend the main wagon except for townie points.

Exactly. He didn't -defend- Pluto, he only said 'meh I don't think this is a good idea'. It seems like he's on Pluto's side, while he isn't: If Pluto would be lynched and flipped Town (which scum!Navo would know prior to the flip), Navo would look like a nice townie who defended someone who was mislynched.

Sure, I guess I agree with your thoughts on Navo's playstyle. I don't see his reply to Pluto as buddying, however, because PLUTO IS NOT SCUM. How on EARTH could he be scum buddying a townie?

by petting the dog

And lol @ me being Rapier.

you can not trick me

Also, silly me, I forgot something important:

Unvote

##Vote: Navo

Hey Navo. More comments on your reads and opinions so far that isn't justifying your actions please.

also where the hell is Manix Bear Knight? Is he hibernating?

Also a problem, though I'm not even sure where everybody is getting that Navo is so experienced.

More experienced than Pluto. I'm sure.

[Olivier]

.also where the hell is Manix Bear Knight? Is he hibernating?

I sure wish I was hibernating. Meetings all day really take the energy out of a bear. Well, that and running a fever.

Now then, votals are off, I-

bearknight is on navo by the way.

Goddamnit.

Anyways, here's a quick post from my fever-addled mind:

\ Alrighty, first off. There were calls for the day vig to shoot FLC. It was also stated that if I refused to use my shot, it would be assumed that I was scum not wanting to shoot my buddy. FLC's actions seemed suspicious enough for me to agree that using my vig shot was a good enough idea, and I didn't want to just claim and be like "I'm not going to shoot" cause a) that would look bad and b) I would become a major target for scum. Now I'm a simple vanilla and much less of a target, so I'll be able to scumhunt and such. It's unfortunate that FLC was a townie, but I don't know what else you expect me to do. As for the plutonium lynch. I don't feel especially bad about that. They were acting scummy as everything, refusing to contribute much more, and giving up. To me, those are all indications of scum and so I pursued that read. It didn't change as the day went on, so I felt no need to change my vote. It sucks that it was a mislynch, but those happen.

I guess the thing here was that the dayvig shot felt too sudden imo, but combined with the fact that I grossly misread robin's explanation, I 'm not as suspicious right now for the vig shot. Completely disagree with the lynch though, considering that he had all of 4 posts. That isn't necessarily enough to rl someone who apparently thought that acknowledging that they were active lurking was a good move to make. Likewise, I think that the wording was realistic, not a declaration of 'giving up'.

Newbtown shouldn't get you off the hook in an anonymous game. Otherwise, scum can act like a newb and get away with it.

At the very least, he never had a high opinion of D1, and I got the impression that that was partly behind his lack of motivation and post.

Newbiness, all the same, shouldn't be lynched D1 , fmpov. Also, please don't try to assign motives for inactivity when the player in question was offline for over a day and a half since their last post.

I think you misunderstood. I wasn't accusing you, or commenting on why you did what you did, just that those reads (for better or worse) have been adressed. What are your reads at the moment, on the remaining players?

You should read my current posts, especially the ones that mention specific people. If I mention them without saying that I don't find them suspicious, that generally means that I don't like them (on the scumminess scale).

I don't like how Okarin is/was framing Moonside's content as empty questioning, when the same could be said of scumnori's activities earlier on this day. They've both gotten better, but I'm keeping an eye on both of them.

Likewise, I still harbour a suspicion of Balboa, based on gut and the exchange we've had, but he's gotten a bit better imo, so I am going to keep my vote on Navo until he starts contributing something other than a self defense.

Jesus christ Okarin's a lion get in the car.

[Elieson]

Votals

Navo (3): Robin's Egg, Bear_Knight, Moonside (L-3)

Scumnori (1): RockMySocks

Balboa (1): Okarin, des Rois

des Rois (1): Scumnori

Voteless: Navo, Sensational Bahamas, Balboa

*Guys, please remember to numbersignnumbersignUnvote. It makes my job a hundred percent easier*

With 10 players alive, it takes 6 to Hammer. 41.5 hours remaining in the Phase.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Elieson

[Kamina]

Elieson, I didn't know that Okarin and des Rois were the same person.

If you don't vote someone, you're essentially doing nothing. Sure, you're stating reads, but they don't mean anything unless you back them up with a vote. Seriously. I hate it when people don't put votes down on someone they say is scummy, and usually automatically assume that they're not wanting to risk starting wagons on scumbuddies. That may or may not be what you're actually doing, but that's how I see it.

I guess so, its just I don't have any major reads right now. Notice how I talked about your actions being annoying rather than scummy because frankly, being overly zealous like RE was with the FLC shot could be seen either way. He's definitely at fault, but we're at fault too for blindly following him. And you being busy isn't scummy by itself either. But I can't buy that you're opinions haven't changed over 6 posts and you haven't got anything to add to it. And then you go and tell Navo to start scumhunting when navo too has said he was busy with life and of course we don't want him echoing because apparently we'll shout at him for it.

##Vote: RockMySocks

I don't believe you, so until you give me something that I can get behind my vote will be on you. You have been contributing nicely recently though so asfnugergbevidugaidbvsdbvaysdvyidvdv.

balboa: my problem is that i don't see why you would drop okarin's lynch at that point. back in #126 you said he had done nothing, and later on you even suspected him not posting except when pressed. why wouldn't you try

to press him further giving your earlygame suspicion, and what made the easier wagon worse?

Missed this, and this is a good point. I guess I didn't want to tunnel that much, as having the blinkers down for too long just makes one unaware of the surroundings. Now though, I'm fairly happy with Okarin as he's contributing nicely.

I don't like his stance on Socks (who I think is town)

Elaborate please(on both why you don't like my stance and why you think Socks is town).

Will look at Scumnori and Nova again, moonside is making a good argument against him.

[Sham]

For what it matters, I'll have a content post later today.

[Elieson]

32 Hours Remaining.

I received a notice from RockMySocks, alerting me to limited activity for the time being (shouldn't be too long).

Also, regarding these monsterously long posts; please limit them where you can. I'm contemplating renaming this Wall of Text Mafia. It's hard for me, and the players in this game to focus on then long enough. Any subs coming in have a lot to overcome just to catch up.

So I ask, for the convienence of everyone. Before you post, consider the length, if it can be split in two or cut down a bit.

[Rain Nijika]

Hi, like our wonderful and all powerful mod said, my computer is currently on the fritz. I'm grabbing computer time in labs between classes, but until I fix that, I can only promise to post about once every 5 hours or so, if that.

So, quick thoughts:

Navo: Ok, cool. I'll try and keep you to that, and hopefully others will too.

des Rois: Ah ok. Yeah, I think I did misunderstand your points. If you were just trying to completely read through the thread and were just giving us opinions along the way, that makes more sense. And I guess as long as you truly think Balboa is scummy, it's not necessarily a bad thing that you voted seemingly right after being yelled at for not. You are regaining town points in my eyes.

Newbiness, all the same, shouldn't be lynched D1 , fmpov. Also, please don't try to assign motives for inactivity when the player in question was offline for over a day and a half since their last post.

I'd agree with this except for the fact that Pluto specifically said at one point that he never saw a point in giving reads D1 and if he lived til D2 he would start to participate more. So... :/

Besides that, my views remain mostly the same, except for one thing. Moonside: you specifically said that Balboa was giving you weird feelings and that you'd comment more on him later. And yet you haven't? Care to say why? I don't like this promise of content and then not giving it thing...

So yeah, hopefully I'll be able to get my computer fixed later today, but no promises.

[Olivier]

Elieson, as I and RE have pointed out, my vote is on Navo, as shown right here. Just for future reference.

I'd agree with this except for the fact that Pluto specifically said at one point that he never saw a point in giving reads D1 and if he lived til D2 he would start to participate more. So... :/

He didn't exactly word it that way, which is important, because it changes the tone of the message. If you read what he actually said, it reads like he wants to start solidifying his views with a flip. I digress.

Still waiting on the Navo post. In the meantime, I'm probably going to go take a nap.

[Marisa Kirisame]

votecount is super out of date, bearknight and moonside are on navo right now

socks, remind me why your vote is on scumnori over navo or balboa, and what you think of balboa in light of his attacks on you. balboa, what lynches do you prefer other than socks right now? same goes for scumnori and des rois - i don't see many people voicing interest in either of those lynches, if anybody would support des rois or balboa lynch they should probably share

i am like this close to dropping everything and policy lynches bahamas if he doesn't come up with a solid vote before the last 12 hours of the day

[No Elimination]

So wow not much has happened since my last post.

Would like more opinions from Des Rois in the future. Yeah I know some of these posts are hard to read (that's partially my fault) and you subbed in, but soon enough you should be all caught up and able to give more reads. I'll be patient with it, but by next phase I think you should be all caught up.

Balboa completely ignored my post which isn't cool. At least he voted for RMS (after people told him to), but otherwise he hasn't given any of his reads now. Vote stays until he contributes more.

Speaking of people not contributing much, Navo claims he'll post some quality content later. Gonna wait on that, but if it ends up being an empty promise I may just switch my vote to him (since I've seen him scummy for most of the game now).

@Bear_Knight: Take a look at his posts though: They're mostly a collection of a sentence or two responding to someone's post and asking them questions. It's more like a conversation than arguing points. It's not like Moonside is my priority lynch, but I find his lack of sharing his own opinions and reads, and instead budding off other people's points, kinda scummy.

why am I lion ;_;

[Elieson]

Votals

Navo (3): Robin's Egg, Bear_Knight, Moonside (L-3)

Scumnori (1): RockMySocks

Balboa (2): Okarin, des Rois

des Rois (1): Scumnori

RockMySocks (1): Balboa

Voteless: Navo, Sensational Bahamas,

*Guys, please remember to numbersignnumbersignUnvote. It makes my job a hundred percent easier*

With 10 players alive, it takes 6 to Hammer. 25.5 hours remaining in the Phase.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Elieson

[Rain Nijika]

Robin's Egg: Because they haven't done much to alter my opinion of them. They're still my biggest scum read right now. However, beyond scumnori I'd have to say my vote preference goes Navo>Balboa>Okrin, with my eye on Moonside as well for promising content on people and then not giving it. If a reasonable time before deadline, say 12-16 hours before, it still looks like Scumnori isn't going to get lynched, then I'll switch. Alternatively, if Navo hasn't posted much of substance in the next 4 or so hours, I'll probably switch to them.

As for Balboa, eh. He's attacking me. Great. His argument for it isn't that great honestly. He says earlier his main suspcions of me were my "active lurking" and my lack of opinion changes. So apparently, because I stick to my guns, I'm scum. He also then says that he's voting for me even though one of him main reasons, my active lurking, hasn't been a thing lately. He also says that he finds my actions odd not scummy, but doesn't have anything else to go on. So... yeah. I'm sticking with him as one of my lesser scum reads, and he's free to continue attacking me if he wants. If he comes up with more points against me I'll defend myself, but I don't really see anything wrong with my lack in change of opinions and being busy.

[Marisa Kirisame]

also balboa should be at 2 votes, not 1.

what's wrong with okarin? his content has strongly improved since d1 imo and i think his tone and effort level read town

[Rain Nijika]

I may just have them lingering in my mind as scum from last day phase. When I have better access to a computer (currently on this one in class, oops), which should be later tonight, I'll do a reread of them and try and reassess my view. I sometimes run into the problem of getting an idea stuck in my head and not letting go of it, so I'll try and reread.

[Kamina]

Sorry for yet another wall of text:

Balboa completely ignored my post which isn't cool

Because there's nothing major for me to add. I know which sentence you were referring to because you quoted it. And addressed someone else's point about why not voting is scummy, which covers yours. Although you saying that post is all defensive is off, as I was pushing RMS in that post as well.

but otherwise hasn't given off any of his reads.

Moonside - pretty sure he's town, he usually speaks sense and is being thoughtful and contributing. Still disagree about choosing lynch choices based off of experience. Even if there are fewer scum, with just one experienced townie gone, town becomes that much more easily manipulated. Also, scum can still talk tactics with each other after they die (I think) so its not a complete loss for scum regardless.

Navo - He did say he was busy, but I would like to hear more about his suspicions this phase as his one post is mostly just defending himself. Does he still find Okarin/Scumnori scummy like he did last phase? At the very least, I want the answer to that in his content post. Also, in #187 he mentions he will ISO someone, and I assume it wasn't Okarin/Scumnori/Plutonium. Did he decide that the person he was feeling weird about was town after all?

That said, the criticism levelled against him for not defending Pluto very well is unjustified. He took all of Pluto's posts and analysed what he saw in them and why he thought that they were being misinterpreted. I'm not sure what more he could've done than that, yes Caliban stated that it just looked like possible scum trying to look good after the flip, but to say he did his defence poorly (RE said that) is definitely false as not one player even contested his views on the matter directly, when we probably should have considering there was a few of us who were already iffy on the Pluto wagon.

Scumnori- He hasn't done anything terrible recently from what I can see. He seems a little lost like in #350 where he doesn't fully grasp the whole "Navo buddying with Pluto" argument. I believe a big argument against him was only coming back to defend himself, but here in D2 he seems to have got his act together and is actively scumhunting by responding to the statements he finds scummy. Personally, I think he's town.

des Rois - #344 looks like a plea for sympathy in my eyes, and at the very least is a very silly comment. Scumnori simply wanted you to post and talk more about the people at hand. It also seems like you're gtting a bit mixed up with what you're saying, like the slight contradiction pointed out by Socks here in post #354. However, you did sub into a game with a lot to swallow and I do understand that it will be hard. Don't rush posts for the sake of posting, we would all rather see a coherent and fulfilled post than multiple posts one after the other which seem a bit all over the place.

Socks - I still don't like how your thoughts supposedly haven't changed over 6 posts but after going through these guys' posts I see more and more of your posts and get more and more of an impression that I rushed my thoughts. So yeah, ##Unvote. Please don't make those kinds of posts though. They're almost as bad as wall of texts as its just thoughtlessness that I have to wade through before I find the content. Just to clarify: I don't see why one's status at the end of the phase is that important as scum is never in hell going to suddenly change bandwagons at the end of D1 because that will get them lynched D2 and onwards.

Okarin - Hasn't really been off the mark today, feeling better about him. Already said that though.

SB - Need to see more off, would like a large set of reads.

RE - Wary of, but willing to let his mistake go as just that. Will keep an eye on him though.

BK - See moonside except that he tunnelled a bit yesterday. Turned out to be spot-on about Pluto, which I like, even if the reasoning (thinking he's newbtown) is a bit wrong.

I guess my biggest read is Navo, so until he makes that content post he promised, and he answers my queries in particular, I'll ##Vote: Navo

[Shiki Ryougi]

Navo - He did say he was busy, but I would like to hear more about his suspicions this phase as his one post is mostly just defending himself. Does he still find Okarin/Scumnori scummy like he did last phase? At the very least, I want the answer to that in his content post. Also, in #187 he mentions he will ISO someone, and I assume it wasn't Okarin/Scumnori/Plutonium. Did he decide that the person he was feeling weird about was town after all?

That said, the criticism levelled against him for not defending Pluto very well is unjustified. He took all of Pluto's posts and analysed what he saw in them and why he thought that they were being misinterpreted. I'm not sure what more he could've done than that, yes Caliban stated that it just looked like possible scum trying to look good after the flip, but to say he did his defence poorly (RE said that) is definitely false as not one player even contested his views on the matter directly, when we probably should have considering there was a few of us who were already iffy on the Pluto wagon.

Please, PLEASE explain how this justifies your vote for Navo at all. You seem really hesitant, and I'll repeat what I said to des Rois that you should not vote just for the sake of voting. It seems like lazy scum.

While I acknowledge that you've given your reads, be a bit more confident. You have a few "kinda town" one or two "kinda scummy". Can you give the people in that post stronger reads?

[Kamina]

Well, I genuinely want Navo to answer those questions and to explain himself better. He isn't super super scummy but I'm not happy with what I'm seeing(and not seeing) right now.

Also, I may just be being pedantic, but I don't mention the word "kinda" at all and I don't believe my tone was particularly lacking in confidence, I am just not too far on either side of the fence for most people. So no, that's the best you're going to get in terms of where I think people stand.

Just to clarify:

Also, in #187 he mentions he will ISO someone, and I assume it wasn't Okarin/Scumnori/Plutonium. Did he decide that the person he was feeling weird about was town after all?

I would also like to know who he was ISOing as it would help give out more of your thoughts.