Draft Mafia Round 2: AnonyDraft gameOver

[Sham]

Navo - Tone is very important while scumhunting. Knowing the difference between a joking tone and one that's not already caused a shitstorm earlier in the thread. I also don't like how you can analyze Scumnori just fine and not be motivated enough to analyze plutonium. Meanwhile, you comment on Socks, and yet can't be arsed to do your own analysis of others. This reeks of lazy or scum, and neither help the town.

I did analyze Plutonium. I just don't see how he's scum.

I already stated my top scum reads. Do you want more? Are you asking for me to state town reads?

[Cú Chulainn]

Okay, Navo, how about giving a reason for why you don't think Plutonium is scummy? Like, try to explain his posts in a way that makes him look townie (or at worst, null)

[Sham]

##Vote: Scumnori

I don't like his thoughts on the vote.

RVS/serious vote. Could go either way, most likely serious vote to Scumnori because Scumnori seemed scummie.

A rather arbitrary vote using non-arbitrary reasons (unlike most d1 votes).

I'm also fosing FLC for being dodgy with the questions, but I don't want jump onto anything with the little info we have.

Small post stating his current thoughts at the time, didn't state everything on all the situations but it gave us his thoughts on his vote and on who he though was scummy.

Wow, this forum mafia goes by much swiftly than the other ones I've been on. Oh well, onto the topic:

I was implying that I had a gut feeling of his vote being more "directed" than random d1 votes. Make of it what you will.

Yes I have been active lurking, but I'm simply looking at the posts and seeing if there's anything of importance, and I wouldn't want to jump to any conclusions. Plus, the arguing I'm seeing right now is d1 town bicker, IMO.

Leaving my vote on Scumnori - He hasn't exactly added anything, and was yet again vague.

Reads(All going to be wrong):

Bear_Knight

Town - The fact that he's trying to get the point across (http://serenesforest...2, etc.) and bypass all this filler seems good enough to me.

Okarin

Leaning town - Seems to be searching for relevant information

Caliban - ? -Making pragmatic arguments, could be easily either affiliation.

FLC/Robin's Egg - They're both scum or town, but I'm probably wrong.

inb4d1lynch=me D:

He say's he was active lurking but states he's just looking at things he should actually respond to. I don't see this as scum. I see this as him just lurking playstyle. He isn't actively posting random posts that make it super lurking. So far all 3 of his posts have stuff that add his thoughts to the town and we know what he's thinking. Also it seems he obviously comes from a slower based mafia forum. I really don't see him as active lurking, I just see him as lurking.

Chrome refreshed the page >_> Draft no.2

@Scumnori

Your posts had much of lack of reasoning, but that's most likely due to the randomness of d1. I'll probably unvote soon, since alot more is coming up, but your 3rd post pointing out common sense (like mine, now that I look back).

My personal experience probably means nothing, but my guess of FLC+Robin's arguments (a bit more than the RVS start) is usually bored townie or scum nonsense, but the reactions were pretty good, so I'm slightly more inclined to believe that they are town.

Bear_knight and Caliban seemed to have pinpointed Okarin's elusiveness and inactivity banter, so I won't emphasize on that. But Okarin is looking more scummier by the moment.

Also, I think the attack on Balboa *might* be misdirected, especially on the "ignoring Okarin's dodge". Everyone can miss/forget a detail. Balboa is probably looking for something to work on.

In the event that I am lynched, which is certainly a possibility now, watch the people who jumped on my wagon. Robin, Rockmysocks and Caliban seemed to have reasons to vote me, but start looking for those that seem to be incidently jumping on to other's arguements.

If I live to d2, then they'll be more of "real analyzing", because usually the d1 lynches are the townies or scum who accidently slip/contradict themselves. But this is what I've come up with.

TLDR: Scumnori hasn't added much, but Okarin is looking up to be the runner-up. Bear+Caliban scumhunting hard, Balboa might've just missed something.

How do you quote the person and what time they say what they do?

States his thoughts, I feel he might be tunneling but that's something I could be accused of doing as well at the moment I guess. But as far as I see it he's lurking and his 4 posts all contain info beneficial to the town. I would not call this active lurking scum. The only thing I don't like about him at the moment is his random change in Okarin. He swapped from a leaning town read to runner up on his top scum list. Where did that swap come from exactly?

[Ochako Uraraka]

My tone was more "voting you cause ur st00pid lol" rather than "I'm going to vote you because you were acting stupid/scummy here, here, and here", but I understand how it could have come across that way.

Pluto still seems to be echoing. How can you say I'm not adding much when you haven't brought anything new to the table? This isn't a tier list, personal experiences DO mean something. Not in the metagame sense, but can you tell intown arguing apart from bussing? That argument definitely did not seem "bored" as you put it.

Okay so, can you stop justifying yourself for once and start contributing somehow, like giving your thoughts?

[Shiki Ryougi]

Okay so, can you stop justifying yourself for once and start contributing somehow, like giving your thoughts?

Well, that was a case against me, so...

I've given thoughts on pluto, caliban, and balbo.

[Cú Chulainn]

Ehhh Navo's defence of Plutonium is giving me the feeling that Plutonium is town and he's scum trying to get townie points from Plutonium's flip.

[Marisa Kirisame]

vote somebody or i will literally numbers sign numbers sign vote scumnori

[Cú Chulainn]

Also Navo still hasn't responded adequately to any of the criticism leveled against him.

[Shiki Ryougi]

vote somebody or i will literally numbers sign numbers sign vote scumnori

If it makes you feel better, I'll vote the best read I have ##Vote: Pluto

[All Might]

Scumnori needs to do what he/she/it believes in, and not give in to things for the sake of appeasing others. Balboa seems to have the right idea when it comes to that.

From this post by Navo, I am under the impression that he thinks Scumnori's scummy for a relatively weak reason, doesn't care for Okarin (about the only thing in that post I didn't mind), and I can't even tell what his opinion on Socks is. I see a mention of plutonium, and a request for someone explain things about plutonium to him. Thus, I don't see how you stated your top scum reads (reference this), when I see one read I can interpret, one that's iffy, and two that don't really make sense as reads. This is giving plutonium a pass for a lot of things that he's come under fire for.

I don't like this one bit, and will leave my vote where it is for now.

(if I haven't put you in a pile somewhere in the game, it means I'm not interested in lynching you right now)

[All Might]

Since I remember someone mention something about "something town and scum both do", let me remind everyone that such a thing is called a null read. It requires other factors before it can be considered town/scum.

[Olivier]

I was going to make a longer post, but chrome just decided to ruin my day. Just going to make a few pointed remarks before addressing FLC's latest post calling me a beginner, as this has taken way too long already.

-Starting with FLC's post here. I agree that in some cases emotion is a null tell, but your liberal use of ATE to call people idiots and try and justify the incident during the first 3% of the day phase is not a null tell. You also fail to recognize that generally speaking, building a case against a player is not an act of arrogance, but an act of contribution. More on the 'never played with you deal' later.

-Onto Balboa's post immediately afterwards. I'm at an impasse here, with regards to the RVS section, as if he seriously believes that those votes were intricately reasoned, I can't help him. I am going to temporarily abandon this line of attack though, if only because it's distracting me from Clover right now. His Kevin anecdote later on, however, is horrible in the sense that equating any overreaction as egregious as this one to be town-like is lunacy. Kevin isn't a very good example for overreactions, either, just as a side note.

-I think Navo might be a bit misguided in his suspicion of RMS, because the sock rocker's content has be fairly solid in my eyes, much like the content of Moonrise.

-Speaking of moonrise, I'm just confused by what I perceive to be a defense before my wall, which is why they're null. As for why I don't like to talk about town reads, I think they're a waste of time, seeing as one can generally deride them from the player's actions. All they tend to do, in my eyes, is paint a target on the 'more clean' members of the village.

Now, onto this post. Going to cut out the sections that don't pertain to me.

Now that I'm not under the influence of questionable substances, Bear_Knight's case did not bother to take town motivation vs. scum motivation into account. Rather, it assumed scum motivation, and ranted accordingly. This is an extremely bad way to defend one's vote, especially if there's a strong possibility that it can be town-motivated. Mostly everything that was cited were null tells, because they can be motivated by either alignment (genuinely pissed-off townie vs. mafia trying to look like they care). But enough about myself.

I still don't care for Red Text, but after a nice long trip to the bathroom, I can see how it's possible for a beginner to fall into the trap of not considering motivation. I can't see how lazy town helps the game.

I formulated my opinion as I went through the thread, and I came to the conclusion that you were scum aligned. Of course my case would be related to trying to prove that you are mafia-aligned. If you want me to Razor my initial vote reasoning, it was, "Pressure on the guy who freaked out over nothing". Right now it's "I think you're scum". That's my justification for my vote. Now, here's some more arguments with regards to as to why I think you're scum.

Here is what I cited in your post, and some motivations.

-Stop Fishing: You instantly throw an accusation at someone less than 2 hours in, incidentally after being voted by said someone. This is uncalled for, and gives the sense that you are being defensive. OK, so maybe we chalk it up to angry townie.

***

-Maybe one day you'll not be an idiot ... learn why tunneling is a shitty strategy: ATE by calling robin an idiot, and you use another accusation to accompany the insult. Less than 2 hours into the game. This is egregious if one considers the previous statement, and goes to further prove that you're defensive. Town has no motivation to be throwing around these accusations so freely and so early in the game.

***

-"Tunnelling is also a shitty strategy as mafia" post: First of all, non sequitor to robin's previous comments, which makes this not make sense. Once again a tunneling accusation and an accompanying ATE, which makes it feel like he's trying to shame robin for voting/trolling you. How is this town motivated? Keep in mind the context.

***

-"Town day vig would have no reason to shoot that early" post: First two sentences are relatively sound. ATE and a tunneling mention here, as Robin is apparently tunneling because his "fucking bluff" was called out, and the people voting FLC are called Lazy. Firstly, there was no bluff, so the post is nonsensical. Secondly, you did no calling out of any sort, so you're plain lying right there. All you threw were heavy-handed accusations and insults, which, even if one is agitated, can hardly be called town-motivated. Thirdly, you're now accusing people on your wagon with pretty-blatant RVS votes of being "lazy", which has the side-effect of shifting some attention off of you. This is just over 12 hours into the phase, when votes happened around 10 hours into the phase and game. This is subtle OMGUS direction of attention, and I fail to see how it is town-aligned to call RVS votes lazy. Or be this defensive that you're throwing tunneling accusations around this early into the game.

***

- "Because 'OMFG ...'" post: You, once again, are blatantly lying about calling out a bluff of any sort. And now you 'call out' the 'lack of participation' in this game, that would be all of 14 hours old at that point in time. Look, prodding can be done by both sides, but it really gives off a scummy feeling when it's done this early in the game, especially with previous material in mind, as it makes you look like you're pushing attention off of yourself and onto others.. It's also absolute madness to assume that votes early on in the game always need more than flimsy reasoning. Objectively null when isolated, scum when previous comments are added to the equation.

***

-"Dumb shit tactics" post: Paints Robin's antics as tactics. That doesn't justify the accusations and the AtE thrown Robin's way.

***

-"Overly serious is a null read" post: This is where I think people start giving Clover a pass because of his lack of a "fucking sense of humour" and his "nasty temper". The "Overly serious" line is his attempt to justify his horrible reaction, which should not be excused due to the gravity of the accusations he hurled, and adds AtE to, IMO, try and shame us into thinking we're 'wrong' because we don't play 'seriously'. The rest of the post aims to push Caliban into focusing on other people. The 'reasoning' is that it helps the game become less null, but keep in mind that it is 14-15 hours into the phase, so it is at the least ridiculously hasty to start prodding other people, and at its' peak, it's defensive play.

***

-"All I see are badly-founded accusations" post: You accuse your accusers of badly-founded accusations, citing "no sense of humour is a null tell" (justifying your actions on p1), and then you dodge Moonrise's question by rambling about dayvig. Followed by more inactivity misdirection. This is incredibly defensive and suspect play, just for dodging Moon's question and yet again trying to shame people out of focusing on you.

***

-"You don't like the lack of discussion" post: I covered this in my longpost, but I'm going to reiterate that this is more deflection onto the inactives so early into the phase, which immediately leads to:

***

-Vote on me: So you vote me for my two-worded "logic", when I've only posted once, in what is pretty obviously (though not as obvious as I thought) RVS stage, which strikes me as both a delayed OMGUS and an attempt to move attention to an inactive. I'm fine with that, as long as I share the spotlight with my target. Now, I'm wondering how you're voting me for RVS voting you with a two-word reason is considered town play.

***

-Elaboration: There are more obvious targets for that reasoning, so the motivation behind this post is to put my RVS vote in a bad light. It's pretty evident, if one considers Spongebob, that this is OMGUS, and you're trying to hide it.

***

-"Perhaps you are part of the problem" post: This is once again redirecting the attention to anyone but you, along with a side-heaping of vilification of the perceived inactives, It's not null because the age of the game is hilariously young for actions like this, so if it's townsided, I'm definitely from a different mafia age.

***

-Semantics post: You're telling people to dismiss your critic ("blathering idiot", to be precise. Hello ATE!), because he's focusing on you and not "interacting with other people'. Which means diverting attention from you, which is what you've been doing all along, which is scummy.

***

-Slightly Better post: I don't see how day 1 activity is related to day 3 activity, nor how d3 activity is reason to prod players in early d1. The third section is him trying to once again justify his actions in early-d1. I think that the best move would've been to admit that you freaked out to an absurd extent, and try to correct your play from there. Regardless, this is the first 'null' post so far.

***

-"Less ego, actual scumhunting" post: This implies that backing off of you is 'scumhunting' to some extent, and the rest of the post is about justifying his 'prodding'. Which is normally sound townposting, but , with all due respect, this is still less than a day IRL into the actual game, which makes it sound a little opportunistic. People are inactive because they have different lives to lead, and pushing onto them this early for 'inactivity' and being 'lazy' strikes me as, once again, an attempt to move the spotlight off of yourself. This could be considered null, as well.

***

Then there's the whole representing my arguments as a whole appeal to emotion schtick, when that's only one factor.

As a side note, with having no sense of humour, being overly serious, and having emotion as null tells, one has to wonder what isn't a null tell for this chap. And why doesn't he realize that null tells are relative.

Lastly, another point to make is that just because you're null telling in some cases doesn't mean you shouldn't be lynched, seeing as null tells, by virtue of being rolled, arm the town with more information based on their alliance than a particularly townie or a particularly scummy player would.

So, in other words, I did take motivations into account when I made my post, I did not base the argument on solely your love of insults, and I think it's pretty obvious that you're trying to discredit my argument by implying otherwise and hiding behind 'null tells'. The 'giving you the benefit of the doubt,' and the 'beginner' remarks made it especially clear that you're trying to trivialize my views.

My vote (unsurprisingly) stays.

[All Might]

Red Text, your tone is getting way too aggressive/emotional, and it seems to get worse whenever I address you. You're also the same person who sees value in town infighting (for a reference as to why town infighting is BAD, go see Higurashi Mafia, which is linked in the pinned Mafia Headquarters thread). I don't see any room for townie motivations in your accusations against me - just why I have to be scum. For your apparent inability to consider that pissed-off townie is a motivation, and using what are null tells to support your arguments (I see too much use of "personal attacks" and "distancing", for one), and the overly hostile tone of how you're wording the case against me, I originally felt that you were scum. I gave you the benefit of the doubt, and thought you might be a beginner, albeit a clumsy one. You claim you are not a beginner, yet you've convinced yourself that I am scum based on one early interaction. My worst fear is that you're town, and you're going to be the one deciding the game - your inability to analyze me objectively is worrying. God forbid you need to analyze a handful of other people objectively.

Alternately, you're cherry-flavored, in which case, you're out of practice.

[Marisa Kirisame]

i have a gut check on bear_knight scum. too many words spent on what looks like pygmalion effect tunneling

randy and tesla both need to Get The Fuck In Here asap, i am going to be extraordinarily pissed if one of them is scum. in fact i propose that we vig or policy lynch randy tomorrow if his player slot goes the entire day without chipping in any sort of town effort given that we know his players have been around at least once

mod: requesting votecount, also do we need a majority to lynch?

[Olivier]

Red Text, your tone is getting way too aggressive/emotional, and it seems to get worse whenever I address you. You're also the same person who sees value in town infighting (for a reference as to why town infighting is BAD, go see Higurashi Mafia, which is linked in the pinned Mafia Headquarters thread). I don't see any room for townie motivations in your accusations against me - just why I have to be scum. For your apparent inability to consider that pissed-off townie is a motivation, and using what are null tells to support your arguments (I see too much use of "personal attacks" and "distancing", for one), and the overly hostile tone of how you're wording the case against me, I originally felt that you were scum. I gave you the benefit of the doubt, and thought you might be a beginner, albeit a clumsy one. ^{You claim you are not a beginner, yet you've convinced yourself that I am scum based on one early interaction.}_{My worst fear is that you're town, and you're going to be the one deciding the game - your inability to analyze me objectively is worrying. God forbid you need to analyze a handful of other people objectively.}

Alternately, you're cherry-flavored, in which case, you're out of practice.

OK, time for some old fashioned argumentation. (It's a real word, btw)

Bold: This is really funny seeing as you've addressed me with the "Emotion is a null tell" remark. My tone is actually quite fine, if not laced with intent to roll you, as my scum read is hardening.

Italics: I guess we all understand your reading comprehension now, don't we? As for your second part, I already addressed previously and repeatedly, why your prodding isn't town-motivated.

Underlined: I considered it. Your reaction and subsequent refusal to admit that you're wrong don't fit 'pissed off townie'. @Personal attacks: I call it as I see it. Calling someone an idiot, or calling them stupid, is a personal attack, which can be used to discredit criticism, and is an AtE as the victims may respond to those attacks negatively. @'Distancing': Distancing is the act of turning on scumbuddies/scummy people in an attempt to look better. What I'm accusing you of doing is of deflecting the attention directed your way. Sure, maybe not as egregiously as much as Sundown from the last anonymous Mafia, but you're doing a similar thing.

SuperScripted: Based on one interaction? That's clearly why a good portion of your ISO is up in my posts. Well, unless you include the cover-up(justification for outrage) as part of the interaction.

Undescripted: And now you're trying to call me biased. With all due respect, the only thing that is completely unbiased is a robot/a third party observer.

@ Tunneling accusations: I'm more than willing to waste a few thousand words rolling someone if they flip scum as a result, or if the associative reads from it are a goldmine. This is true in both senses here. And if you guys want to try and lynch me, have at it, Hoss.

[Elieson]

Votals:

Bear_Knight (1): Spongebob

Scumnori (2): plutonium95, Moonside,

Okarin (1): Navo

plutonium (4): RockMySocks, Robin's Egg, Okarin, Scumnori(L-3)

FourLeafClover (1): Bear_Knight

Navo (2): Caliban, FourLeafClover

Voteless: Balboa, Tesla.

Time left in phase: 29 Hours. 7 to Hammer.

_{*Caliban, you never unvoted before voting for Scumnori.}

Also. I will reiterate a few rules that I assumed were known. These anonymous accounts are for THIS MAFIA THREAD ONLY. They were given to us by Tangerine for mafia use exclusively. If I catch repeat offenders of this rule, I will open up SuperGodkills.

Hammer is 7, as I've stated repeatedly. It's instant.

Anonymity and activity are conducive to my game. Don't maintain both of these, and yea, you know. Spongebob requested a subout. Tesla. and anyone else who may need one, request it please.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Elieson

[Cú Chulainn]

More people need to be voting for Navo or Okarin,

Also, Bear, writing a lot is not the same as tunneling. Nobody cares if you write an essay on each person you think is the scumteam. People are saying you're tunneling because you're writing essays each time for FLC and your suspicions on everyone else are one-liners.

Bear is a null read for me and I would much rather lynch Navo or Okarin than him. However much Bear might be tunneling, he is at least contributing more than them. Plutonium isn't really looking good either, but I have a gut feeling that he's not scum.

Also, Robin, you need to stop whining about inactives and get back to hunting for scum. I'm not in disagreement with your feelings about Randy/Tesla but ragequitting because of it is extremely anti-town, and you know it. When people are inactive adding yourself to that list only helps mafia.

[Cú Chulainn]

Elie stop being so lazy and remove the point about me not unvoting before voting for Scumnori.

[Olivier]

More people need to be voting for Navo or Okarin,

Also, Bear, writing a lot is not the same as tunneling. Nobody cares if you write an essay on each person you think is the scumteam. People are saying you're tunneling because you're writing essays each time for FLC and your suspicions on everyone else are one-liners.

Bear is a null read for me and I would much rather lynch Navo or Okarin than him. However much Bear might be tunneling, he is at least contributing more than them. Plutonium isn't really looking good either, but I have a gut feeling that he's not scum.

Also, Robin, you need to stop whining about inactives and get back to hunting for scum. I'm not in disagreement with your feelings about Randy/Tesla but ragequitting because of it is extremely anti-town, and you know it. When people are inactive adding yourself to that list only helps mafia.

I know that but as I've previously mentioned, I try to keep my posts concentrated on one person, as it clouds my message if i get sidetracked on other reads. For example, you mention more people needing to vote for Okarin or Navo. I think Okarin is particularly egregious(get your drinking cups ready, tropers) in this respect thanks to the fact that still hasn't explained his post from 20 hours ago, and he was viewing the topic recently without doing anything.

If I were to put that into my post about FLC, it would derail the train of thought.

Also off-topic: Not sure where the hate for Navo is coming from. Brb, Isoing.

[No Elimination]

Alright I've been busy all day but I believe I've caught up with what's going on in the game.

First off I'm keeping my vote on Plutonium since he has done nothing to improve himself at all. His latest post has been nothing but echoing and other fluff. It's ironic that he's attacking Scumnori for not adding anything to discussion when in reality he's added more than him. His argument against me is just an echo of others' points, and he hasn't done any scumhunting otherwise. The posts he's made are nothing but pseudo-contribution. He's still my strongest scumread.

I honestly forgot about Navo. Looking back at his posts he's only had one content post, which I'm going to dissect here. He borrows reasoning from Caliban to keep his rvs vote on me, and then gives another weak reason saying my vote on plutonium was bad. Do I have to write a novel to explain a vote on someone I find scummy? Afterwards, he tries to make a case on RockMySocks which pretty much twists each of his/her posts into looking worse. Again an example of pseudo-contribution to make it look like you're scumhunting. Navo also decides to ignore all criticism thrown at him and chose not to defend himself. In the end, Navo's posting has been weak and he hasn't contributed at all. I find him a weaker scumread than Plutonium at this point simply due to Navo's lack of activity, and the possibility that with more activity there will be better posts.

Scumnori is looking better to me after a couple more posts. Considering the possibility that the lack of content posts from him are only due to a lack of activity. His posts have had a lot more content than the two others above, so I'd say lynching him is less of a priority atm.

Also getting a slight-scum read on Bear_Knight. Lot's of long posts but all are concentrated on FLC, who has looked a lot less scummy than (least) the three people above. IIRC your argument as to why I'm scum is just an echo of others (hmm am I seeing a pattern here?), but I don't think you've given any of your views on other scumspects. Quit tunneling man, and give out your opinions on other players in the game. Care to share Mr. Bear?

[No Elimination]

Also I'm not a fan of "ISOing = scumhunting". ISOing tells you nothing but a selected person's votes, and not about the situations occurring in the game at the time, which factors into the posts. People need to stop using only ISOs to get reads on players, but instead need to reread, and then when they want to refer to specific posts to ISO. Just my two cents on the matter.

[Marisa Kirisame]

Also, Robin, you need to stop whining about inactives and get back to hunting for scum. I'm not in disagreement with your feelings about Randy/Tesla but ragequitting because of it is extremely anti-town, and you know it. When people are inactive adding yourself to that list only helps mafia.

nothing has really changed since my last post actually

would still like to lynch pluto for the combination of self-meta and weak content - the latter alone wouldn't put him above some other players but the fact that he went out of his way to make sure people could give him newb passes in an anon game is just bad

i feel like okarin dropped off the radar too which is suspect after people were hounding him on the pluto vote. nevermind i got cut and the post actually looks pretty good at a glance so he's cool. scumnori is actually Not That Bad aside from his failure to vote people. prefer pluto > navo > okarin > scumnori > other peeps as is but would much rather lynch out of pluto/navo than the others

flc lynch is obviously not happening today though so bear_knight should talk about which potential wagons he prefers the most instead of the giant tunnel walls of text that i barely actually read.

States his thoughts, I feel he might be tunneling but that's something I could be accused of doing as well at the moment I guess.

also: for fuck's sake stop acting like going more than one post without switching a vote is tunneling. in any case your defense conveniently ignores the issues with pluto bringing in self-meta where not necessary, which makes me wonder if your townread on him is arbitrary and possibly buddying

[Cú Chulainn]

Bear, there's a difference between not letting your other reads cloud your main message and tunneling. You might be trying to do the former, but you're doing the latter. Plus as Robin said the FLC lynch is not happening this phase, so "focusing your main message" on him is not even helpful.

My lynch priority right now goes Navo > Okarin > Plutonium > Scumnori.

[Olivier]

Bear, there's a difference between not letting your other reads cloud your main message and tunneling. You might be trying to do the former, but you're doing the latter. Plus as Robin said the FLC lynch is not happening this phase, so "focusing your main message" on him is not even helpful.

My lynch priority right now goes Navo > Okarin > Plutonium > Scumnori.

agree to disagree wrt tunneling. The only reason I haven't said much more since my iso comment is because I'm rereading navo. Expect a bit of a post in like 30 seconds.

[Olivier]

I'm going to address Navo here, especially with regards to posts 86, 140, and 154.

Post 86 mostly explains his previous comment about people being worse than Robin (who wasn't being very bad at all), lays down a suspicion on Scumnori, but keeps his random vote on Okarin for a remark he made about robin and FLC being on the same faction. Which doesn't make sense from my point of view, as the scumnori wagon seems to be the stronger wagon of the two at that point in time. He isn't talking about much of page 2 (41-80), though, and a few people people call him on it, nothing happens, up until post 134 where Robin ... well, see for yourself.

i'm surprised nobody is interested in starting a train on or even discussing navo when his single post was pretty bad and he then disappeared completely. in fact, to everyone around -what are your thoughts on navo right now?

Caliban begins to build a case on Navo at about post 138, but luckily doesn't have to read too long.

Post 140 rolls around, and Navo elaborates on why he thinks scumnori's vote wasn't reasonless, followed by some more criticism of Okarin and some criticism of RMS, which, frankly, I don't agree with based on the other contributions RMS has made, and more Okarin pushing, which makes sense imo. Lastly, he asks about the case on plutonium, which then is promptly explained to him by balboa. He continues to be criticized and in response, crafts a defense of plutonium in post 154? Haven't even read that part yet as I'm typing this, but there go the alarms.

Defense of Plutonium sounds like a justification of plut's actions and maybe an attempt to gain townie cred for defending a newbtown(?), there's no further response to his criticism, and after rereading the scumnori suspicion theory, it falls apart, (Caliban's remark directed me towards that.) I understand the lynch motivation now, and I am OK with it.

Addressing Okarin next post.