[FE8] Royalty Run

[MancerNecro]

Mage Knights are (in my experience, going from caps and general ability) mostly inferior to Sages, Valkyries are better because all Light tomes have a crit bonus that offsets the slightly lessened power.

Except, we're not comparing Mage Knights to Sages. Mage Knight and Valkyrie have THE EXACT SAME CAPS. The only difference is in their Magic Tomes. I'd prefer more AS through lighter Tomes and an S Rank Tome that allows me to double more enemies than slightly more Critical Chance that happens only... 10% more of the time? It's not like Light Tomes give as much Critical as a Killer Weapon. It's not like Valkyries get increased Critical Chance.

On the other hand, Light Tomes also have LESS MIGHT. Heavier and less Might means that your same-ranked spells will have less chances to Double as well as deal less damage on each hit on opponents. Even if you double, you'd still deal less damage per round compared to a Mage Knight. And Mage Knights have a better chance to double.

That Critical Chance that you speak off is pretty unreliable, unless you can make it activate a lot more consistently. This, Mage Knight is clearly better.

[Might Gaine]

I was remarking on how Mage Knight can be gotten from either a Mage (Lute and Ewan) or a Troubadour (L'Arachel), and was explaining my opinion on why it's the lesser promotion alternative in either case.

Thing is, though, at least in my case, Valkyrie L'Arachel crits... probably 45 percent of the time with a Shine tome.

But this is neither the time nor the place to discuss one Class over another and to fight with each other about our preferences, so I shall not speak of this again.

[MancerNecro]

I was remarking on how Mage Knight can be gotten from either a Mage (Lute and Ewan) or a Troubadour (L'Arachel), and was explaining my opinion on why it's the lesser promotion alternative in either case.

Thing is, though, at least in my case, Valkyrie L'Arachel crits... probably 45 percent of the time with a Shine tome.

But this is neither the time nor the place to discuss one Class over another and to fight with each other about our preferences, so I shall not speak of this again.

L'Arachel won't ever hit 45% Critical on a Shine Tome without Supports, and if you want to include Supports into the calculation, L'Arachel should be able to reach about 42% or so Critical with the same Support boosts with a Thunder Tome. Shine has only 3% more Critical boost than a Thunder Tome. Consider the fact that Shine has 6 Might and 8 Weight and Thunder has 8 Might and 6 Weight, L'Arachel would have 2 more AS AND 2 Power with Thunder, losing out only on 3% Critical Chance and 10% Hit Rate. In that situation, I'd think that Anima (Thunder) Tomes are actually better, since 3% Hit Rate is actually very inconsequential. You have to factor in the same resources on both L'Arachel for BOTH paths before you can do any comparisons.

Here are other comparisons between Light and Anima Tomes of the same Rank:

Lightning vs Fire

Lightning has 4 Might, 6 Weight, 95 Hit, 5 Crit

Fire has 5 Might, 4 Weight, 90 Hit, 0 Crit

So it's 5% Hit Rate and Critical Chance vs 1 Power and 2 AS. Although, I think L'Arachel's Con as a Valkyrie or Mage Knight has 6 Con, so the real comparison here is: 5% Hit Rate and Critical Chance vs 1 Power.

Shine vs Thunder

As discussed earlier, this is 10% Hit Rate and 3% Critical Chance vs 2 Power AND 2 AS. I believe since the D Rank Tomes are the most commonly used Tomes for any playthroughs, this comparison is actually the most important comparison of all of the Light vs Anima comparisons. This is especially so since Mage Knight L'Arachel has 6 Con and won't lose any AS using a Thunder Tome compared to a Shine Tome. Don't even talk about L'Arachel using a Lightning Tome that won't drop her AS here, since Thunder has 4 Power over Lightning, losing out in only 15% Hit Rate.

Divine vs Elfire

Divine has 8 Might, 12 Weight, 85 Hit, 10 Crit

Elfire has 10 Might, 10 Weight, 85 Hit, 0 Crit

This is 10% Critical Chance vs 2 Power AND 2 AS.

Purge vs Bolting

Purge has 10 Might, 20 Weight, 75 Hit, 5 Crit

Bolting has 12 Might, 20 Weight, 60 Hit, 0 Crit

15% Hit Rate and 5% Critical Chance vs 2 Power.

Aura vs Fimbulvetr

Aura has 12 Might, 15 Weight, 85 Hit, 15 Crit

Fimbulvetr has 13 Might, 12 Weight, 80 Hit, 0 Crit

5% Hit Rate and 15% Critical Chance vs 1 Power AND 3 AS.

Ivaldi vs Excalibur

Ivaldi has 17 Might, 10 Weight, 90 Hit, 5 Crit, +5 Def

Excalibur has 18 Might, 13 Weight, 90 Hit, 10 Crit, +5 Spd

+5 Def vs 1 Power, 2 AS (cause of the +5 Spd) and 5% Critical.

At all ranks, Anima Tomes offer more Power than Light Tomes. At all ranks except for Purge and Bolting's rank, Anima Tomes offer more AS. Since Purge and Bolting are rarely used, Anima Tomes can be said to generally offer more Power and AS. The increased Power and AS allows you to more consistently and reliably deal more damage than Light Tomes. Doubling more foes > occasional Critical every now and then. Defensively, the increased AS provides more Avoid, and reliably decreases the number of enemies that can double you in battle. Light Tomes offer nothing defensively. Only Ivaldi provides a +5 Def boost for Valkyries.

Also, the most used spells will be Shine and Thunder, with Ivaldi and Excalibur being the Legendary weapons to be used against Formotiis. In the Shine and Thunder comparison, because of Thunder's original 5% Critical, Shine does not really "shine" at all. It is inferior to Thunder. You can argue that it provides 10% more Hit Rate, but it loses out in more important areas, especially in AS. That 3% MORE Critical Chance it provides over Thunder means that it will Critical just 3 more times in every 100 attacks. For Ivaldi vs Excalibur, Excalibur downright wins the comparison. Ivaldi offers NOTHING better than Excalibur offensively. Defensively, you are comparing +5 Def and 4% Avoid (and the fact that less enemies can double you with 2 more AS). In this case, Excalibur offers the better defenses, because the ability to be doubled less is always good (unless you have such high defenses such that the opponent can't deal more than 1 or 2 damage with each hit).

Add into consideration the fact that Anima Tomes are generally cheaper and come with higher durability than Light Tomes. This is likely the least important of all the comparisons, given how much Gold you can get in the game. In the long run, you might end up spending a lot more Gold maintaining a Valkyrie L'Arachel than a Mage Knight L'Arachel when the Gold can likely be better spent elsewhere, or saved for your Funds Ranking.

Thus, Anima Tomes are better than Light Tomes. Given that Mage Knight and Valkyrie have THE SAME Caps and similar Promotional Gains (Valkyrie gains +1 Def more than Mage Knight in Promotional Gains, otherwise, other gains are the same), Mage Knight is the better Class for L'Arachel. Anyone who says otherwise needs to give some proof of it instead of just saying that Valkyrie is clearly better, because I don't see how Valkyrie is better at all.

[Shadow Mir]

Vanilla classes for the win! That means Falco!Tana, SM!Joshua, and Valk!L'Arachel BTW. And Mage Knights and Paladins are actually really good, although I much prefer Valkyrie to Mage Knight for some odd reason.

I'm actually open ended with L'Arachel's promotion path, which might be to your surprise.

Mage Knights are (in my experience, going from caps and general ability) mostly inferior to Sages, Valkyries are better because all Light tomes have a crit bonus that offsets the slightly lessened power.

Paladins are (again, in my experience, going from caps and general ability) inferior to Great Knights in terms of stats, and their speed/skill advantage isn't really enough to offset the difference, especially since they can't take advantage of it with Axes, which are the most physically powerful. All they have going for them is two extra Move, which in my eyes is a poor trade.

Swordmasters get a crit bonus. Assassins get a chance for instant kill. 3 times one damage is just three damage. Instant kill is, well, instant kill. I believe I have made my point.

Personally, I disagree on GKs and Assassins. As for GKs, imo, having the same move as foot units defeats the purpose of being mounted. Regarding Assassins, the types of enemies Silencer would actually be helpful against are generally rare and/or best dealt with by other methods.

[Might Gaine]

I didn't mean that L'Arachel had a crit percentage of 45 in stats. I meant in practice. She crits more than her stats would lead you to believe. Very RNG blessed like that. And she tends to be fast enough that Anima tomes being lighter is more or less irrelevant, since she can double-hit pretty much everything. And pretty much the only thing that can double-hit her would be something with a Brave weapon.

[MancerNecro]

I didn't mean that L'Arachel had a crit percentage of 45 in stats. I meant in practice. She crits more than her stats would lead you to believe. Very RNG blessed like that. And she tends to be fast enough that Anima tomes being lighter is more or less irrelevant, since she can double-hit pretty much everything. And pretty much the only thing that can double-hit her would be something with a Brave weapon.

You can't say that L'Arachel would be RNG Blessed as a Valkyrie because PEMN. Assuming RNG Blessing for Valkyrie L'Arachel but not Mage Knight L'Arachel too shows biasedness. Showing biasedness in that argument makes that point irrelevant. I just proved also, that Shine has just 3% more Crit Chance than Thunder. If Criticals happen 45% of the time for Shine, it should happen 45% of the time for Thunder.

You're saying L'Arachel has sufficient Spd? I fail to see how she would have sufficient Spd. She has 17 Spd at Level 20/1, assuming she even gets to Level 20 before she Promotes. Logically speaking, she would never reach Level 20/1 before the last few Chapters of the game. 17 Spd at that point in time is actually pretty low. In the Final Chapter (the one with lots of monsters that you have to charge through before reaching Formotiis), L'Arachel will find it hard to double anything that is not a Revenant. The Skeletons will have 16-17 Spd. Even Gargoyles at that point in time will have around 13-14 Spd. L'Arachel will not be doubling without a Lightning Tome as a Valkyrie.

However, most L'Arachels will certainly not reach Level 20/1 by the end of the game. Even if you Staff Spam, Level 10/1 or 15/1 is a more plausible Level for L'Arachel to reach by endgame due to her jointime, especially on Ephraim's Route. Level 10/1 L'Arachel has 13 Spd, Level 15/1 L'Arachel has 15 Spd. She will not be "pretty much" doubling anything. In fact, if your L'Arachel is at Level 10/1, she will be doubled by Wights unless she uses a Lightning Tome, limiting both her offence and her defence by a lot. Thus, Mage Knight L'Arachel is clearly better.

I'm doing this comparison on my phone right now, when I'm home, I'll spend more time doing calculations to further corroborate my point.

[Might Gaine]

I normally grind all my characters to 20/20 before taking on the final chapters.

However, I'm probably just making myself look like an ass here, so I'll shut up before it gets any worse, and just say that I don't like FE8 Mage Knights.

[MancerNecro]

You do realize that any arguments you make about a certain character being good/bad is moot if you do 20/20 Grindings?

That statement is so full of bias, but I'm just going to let your biasedness past, as long as you do not make any unsupported claims because of your biasedness.

EDIT: Something else I'd like to say is for Lute, Sage is the best option for a 20/20 grinder, yet Mage Knight is better for someone who plays without grinding. Without grinding, you won't ever reach a level where you can cap Mage Knight's Mag in-game (excluding CC). Mage Knights also offer more Con and 1 more Mag on Promotion than Sage. Mage Knight Lute has 6 Con, meaning she wins Sage Lute in AS and Power until you start to approach the Mage Knight Caps. In which, when you compare Level 20/20 Stats, Sage has the same AS with 5 more Power due to Mage Knight's low Caps. So, a comparison between non-grinding and grinding situations is very much different. This is to refute your point that Mage Knight is an inferior option to Sages for Lute and Ewan, because unless you're grinding to Level 20/20, the Promotional Gains say otherwise.

Edited October 8, 2012 by MancerNecro

[secondworld]

Joshua - Assassin

Lockpicks are useful and none of the other charaters can use them. Although Joshua gets better stats as a swordmaster because of the class's better stat caps, he still gets good stats as an assassin(except for the lackluster strength, which can be made up for with his high crit rate and silencer).

Tana - Falcoknight

Tana is good either way, but I say falcoknight because swords.

L'Arachel - Mage Knight

Mage knights and valkyrie have the same caps and similar promotion gains, but mage knights use better tomes, so the choice is obvious.

Edited November 27, 2012 by RayDavid99