A question about certain units

[ClLoulD]

I understand there are fanbases out there but there are a few things I don't understand especially when reviewing the "Rate the unit" in radiant dawn I mean for example...

On Normal/Hard mode Aran and Zihark are almost essential for the DB although you could use Edward if you prefer him over Zihark for some reason now what I can't understand is why are people rating Mia so much higher than units like Zihark? Mia is a decent unit but she isn't exactly essential and she comes with vantage a 10 point skill whilst Edward and Zihark come with Wrath and Adept respectively which is a 15 point skill, so as swordmasters they can both have vantage and adept/wrath equipped with space for another 15 point skill such as resolve/wrath/adept where as Mia falls 10 points short because of shove (5) furthermore Zihark has earth affinity so if paired with either volug or more preferbly Nolan then the two of them can share a whopping +45 avoid rate if within 3 squares of another which makes the two of them hardly hittable. Apart from this all the units seem to turn out pretty much the same at endgame.

Now looking on the soldier/halberdier/lancer side of things Aran is practically the only real tank on the Dawn Bridge, and he usually manages to cap both strength and defence by about level 15 whereas even at a higher level nephenee is scarily fragile, and although useful for elincia's chapters she is often outshined by Titania, oscar or even Gatrie as a lancer wielder when she joins Ike's Greil mercenaries and although her speed is superior to Aran's and she can double most things unfortunatly her strength usually let's her down and she doesn't do much and this is a real issue when Ike's chapters are full of armoured knights and cavaliers, thankfully at least with Aran he can feed the kills to someone in Micaiah's team who needs the experience like Jill or Nolan.

Feel free to agree/disagree with me just leave points for your arguments.

Also has anyone noticed and other similarities?

[mimgrim]

Seeing as for the Myrmidon/Swordsmaster/Trueblade you mostly talk about Edward, Mia, and Zihark I won't bring Lucia or Stefan's average stats into this.

First of all to me it seems like your only considering usefullness of them for the parts you FIRST get them and not taking endgame into account so first lets look at average max stats for the 3 most popular sword wielders of FE10 (you should already know this but I am jsut reminding that average stat aren't for what always happen just what is most expected of their growth rates but RNG generator can easily say otherwise <_<);

http://serenesforest.net/fe10/average/edward.html

http://serenesforest.net/fe10/average/zihark.html

http://serenesforest.net/fe10/average/mia.html

Now then looking at this, Edward has a good chance of capping HP, Str, Skl, Spd, Lck, and Def, Zihark has a good chance of capping Spd and Str and Res, while Mia has a good chance of capping HP, Str, Skl, Spd, and Def. So looking at these average stats in terms of usefulness for Endgame it would go Edward>Mia>Zihark. Of course we still have to take usefullness for the parts they come in and we get to a whole ne branch. For part 1 Zihark is obviously better then Edawrd due to being promoted and not going down easily HOWEVER if you take the time to train Edward he will soon surprass Zihark, so it really comes down to do you want to Edward to be one of your main units and take the time to train him or do you want to go the easy way with Zihark? in Either case it starts out Zhiark>Edward but if you take the route to train Edward it will soon become Edward>Zihark. As for Mia, well if I remember correctly she and Ike are the only sword wielders you get for a good while in part 3 so that one way she is usefull there.

In the end it, this is just my opion by the way, should be either Mia>Zihark>Edward or Edward>Mia>Zihark.

As for Nepheene and Aran, well I think they are about equal to be honest, they both have their advantadges and disadvantadges, but most people go with Nepheene due to her already being promoted and having better speed.

That just what I think anyway, there will probably be many people that disagree with me. XD

[nflchamp]

I understand there are fanbases out there but there are a few things I don't understand especially when reviewing the "Rate the unit" in radiant dawn I mean for example...

On Normal/Hard mode Aran and Zihark are almost essential for the DB although you could use Edward if you prefer him over Zihark for some reason now what I can't understand is why are people rating Mia so much higher than units like Zihark? Mia is a decent unit but she isn't exactly essential and she comes with vantage a 10 point skill whilst Edward and Zihark come with Wrath and Adept respectively which is a 15 point skill, so as swordmasters they can both have vantage and adept/wrath equipped with space for another 15 point skill such as resolve/wrath/adept where as Mia falls 10 points short because of shove (5) furthermore Zihark has earth affinity so if paired with either volug or more preferbly Nolan then the two of them can share a whopping +45 avoid rate if within 3 squares of another which makes the two of them hardly hittable. Apart from this all the units seem to turn out pretty much the same at endgame.

Now looking on the soldier/halberdier/lancer side of things Aran is practically the only real tank on the Dawn Bridge, and he usually manages to cap both strength and defence by about level 15 whereas even at a higher level nephenee is scarily fragile, and although useful for elincia's chapters she is often outshined by Titania, oscar or even Gatrie as a lancer wielder when she joins Ike's Greil mercenaries and although her speed is superior to Aran's and she can double most things unfortunatly her strength usually let's her down and she doesn't do much and this is a real issue when Ike's chapters are full of armoured knights and cavaliers, thankfully at least with Aran he can feed the kills to someone in Micaiah's team who needs the experience like Jill or Nolan.

Feel free to agree/disagree with me just leave points for your arguments.

Also has anyone noticed and other similarities?

One, and yes, this is important, stop abusing my language so much. If I have to try to read through something like that again you aren't getting another reply.

Next, I got to "Aran and Zihark are almost essential" and considered you crazy. Neither is a crutch - those honors belong to Sothe. As far as I'm concerned, DB chapters are to be finished using nothing but crazy powerful units the game continually throws at you. The only exceptions are 3-6 and 3-12 where I actually need a trained unit to be able to compete (usually). Almost everyone falls by the wayside comes part 4. You'll note that this makes my analysis of the DB become three questions.

1) Are you a "crazy powerful unit"?

2) How feasible is it you're a good unit in 3-6/3-12?

3) Is it feasible to use you in part 4?

Zihark is a "crazy powerful unit" to an extent, but he's not really great. By the time 1-7 rolls around he's falling off for a "crazy powerful unit". Hell, he's not even that important in 1-6 because of Sothe and Tauroneo. I feel it is necessary to go out of my way to get him to a point where he has a high enough support level to be a good unit is 3-6/3-12, though it isn't extremely far and isn't anywhere near impossible. And if he's used in part 3, he'll be a decent enough unit is part 4. Note, I'm not thrilled by his part 4 as he probably starts underleveled. Overall, a good unit. Hardly essential, but good.

Aran is a scrub. He sucks has hard as every other DB tier 1 unit in part 1. That means he sucks pretty bad and is getting EXP through mop up duty if I'm using him in part 3. Doesn't really start at a high enough level to be good in part 3. And even if I spend the time to level him, his part 3 is meh. Has good defense, especially compared to the rest of the DB, but doesn't have the offense to leverage it because he doesn't get a special weapon. Steel lance forge just doesn't cut it. I'd rather use a smattering of other units that have worse durability in exchange for better offense overall. And in part 4 he's garbage again unless I pour BEXP down his throat. Not essential - I'd call him mediocre to bad.

[phokingbeast]

nephenne and mia

[Dr. Silent]

Nephenee. Unlike Aran, she won't be underlevelled throughout the whole game. She has plenty of time to gain Exp and her Str problems are really over-exaggerated. Plus, she can get PoR transfer bonuses. A much better choice than Aran who is always too slow to be an effective combat unit, especially in Hard mode.

Mia. She has slightly better growths than Zihark, and if you use both in their respective parties, Mia will end up at a higher level by the end of Part 3. Neither is all that great before promotion. As for Edward, if we're talking Hard mode then he doesn't even come into contention, as he practically dies in one hit from pretty much anything and is almost impossible to raise. You can only really train up two first tier DB members in Part 1, who should always be Nolan and Jill.

[Lakmé]

Nephenee over Aran because of his horrendous speed.

All trueblades are great, but only Eddie, Mia and Zihark can pretend to be the best.

- Personal Skill : Adept > Wrath > Vantage, imo

- Stats as a lv 20/20/20 : Edward > Mia > Zihark but all of them can cap everything with Bexp/Blossom

- Affinity : Earth > Fire = Light

- Ease to train : Mia > Zihark > Edward

- Weapon rank : Zihark > Mia >= Edward (male swordmasters can reach the SS rank, unlike female) but Edward has a unique powerful sword (with a +8 hit/avoid/Crt.avoid)

On normal mode, Edward can be trained and will outclass Zihark once promoted. This will make the latter a less valuable unit and the DB won't suffer that much Zihark's loss if he becomes an enemy in chapter 3-6 to increase his availability, but he will be underleveled compared to Mia and without any support (except if you keep an Ilyana support, or recruit Jill later). However the GM are so powerful that training one weak unit is not a problem...

During the DB chapters, Edward will reach an A support with Nolan in no time to have a good avoid while Zihark can support another Earth affinity wielder (like Volug) for the same result with a C/B rank. Both will have access to Tauroneo's Resolve to make one of them invincible, Paragon to train them, Tormod's Celerity and Leonardo's Cancel (if you feel lucky during the Player Phase).

During the first GM chapters, Mia is the only sword-wielder available with Ike (and LolMist), meaning she won't have any rival, and later only Brom (with an E in swords) and maybe Zihark are added to Ike's army. She starts nice, ends nice and has time to build supports. She also has access to skills like Provoke/Shade, Daunt, Brom's Disarm (wonderful), Blossom, Astrid's Paragon, Titania's Counter, Soren's Adept or Heather's Pass...

Eventually, Edward, Mia and Zihark can all be promoted to Trueblades.

On hard mode, Edward is a pain to train and must always get speed to keep doubling enemies making Zihark a crucial unit, especially with a full Earth support and Resolve (but it will take some time to be reliable), and letting him go with the GM in 3-6 or 3-7 is downright suicide. Because of that, he will have less availability and will take some time to be a trueblade (hopefully Resolve x Provoque with a nearby Earth buddy with Daunt is wonderful to level up during part 4) Mia on the other hand is just a great unit among other great units...

On both modes, Mia is easy to train and can support Ike or Oscar to boost her avoid.

So I'd say that Zihark is the best Trueblade by a small margin, though he only relies on avoid and his low def can screw him a lot without Resolve...

Edited October 25, 2012 by Lakmé

[ClLoulD]

One, and yes, this is important, stop abusing my language so much. If I have to try to read through something like that again you aren't getting another reply.

Stop abusing your language? I've made probably 20-30 posts on this site I have absolutely no idea who the hell you are or why you're talking to me like shit, I've done nothing to offend you and didn't make you visit this thread. In future do not post on my threads and I will avoid you because I have no time for rude ,immature children like yourself on the internet and I do enjoy being able to have a nice, relaxed debate with other people and taking there opinions into mind where as you find the need to come over with a poor attitude and try to give me an ultimatum about how I deliver my literacy skills? By all means stick by your word and do not "Grace" me with another reply.

Anyway, to the rest of you I see a lot of interesting points raised, Most notably that Mia is one of only two real sword wielders in the GM so I can see that being potentially very useful however the level difference isn't too daunting to me seen as any units that are slightly under par I would just send in to the team for the Izuka Chapter also Lakme your post was a pleasure to read and made me realise a lot of other skills and combinations such as provoke and daunt could be used as well to increase the usefulness of certain units.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Neph is the best out of the halberdier guys. Aran has bunk ass speed. Sure he can tank but is he worth it in hard mode? Nephenee with transfers and the Provoke skill can be a wonderful thing. She is ripe for BEXP abuse!

I like Zihark the best out of the swordies but thats just my personal bias. Mia is a good unit in this game and has probably the best payoff in the long run. Zihark is pretty nice to have on the DB chapters but hes got some durability issues. He does have that sweet, sweet Earth affinity though. Pairing him up with someone like Volug is kinda awesome. Recruiting him to the GM side is kinda pointless though because he will be underleveled and competing with Mia, who by that time, is probably at a higher level and on the verge of being a murderess.

Personal skill sets for Neph and Mia that i use:

Nephenee: Wrath, Provoke, and (occasionally) Adept.

Mia: Vantage, (sometimes) Adept, Disarm.

[Anouleth]

I understand there are fanbases out there but there are a few things I don't understand especially when reviewing the "Rate the unit" in radiant dawn I mean for example...

On Normal/Hard mode Aran and Zihark are almost essential for the DB

They're not. I barely even touch Aran and Zihark. They're decent units, don't get me wrong, but not essential for anything.

although you could use Edward if you prefer him over Zihark for some reason now what I can't understand is why are people rating Mia so much higher than units like Zihark? Mia is a decent unit but she isn't exactly essential and she comes with vantage a 10 point skill whilst Edward and Zihark come with Wrath and Adept respectively which is a 15 point skill, so as swordmasters they can both have vantage and adept/wrath equipped with space for another 15 point skill such as resolve/wrath/adept where as Mia falls 10 points short because of shove (5) furthermore Zihark has earth affinity so if paired with either volug or more preferbly Nolan then the two of them can share a whopping +45 avoid rate if within 3 squares of another which makes the two of them hardly hittable. Apart from this all the units seem to turn out pretty much the same at endgame.

Now looking on the soldier/halberdier/lancer side of things Aran is practically the only real tank on the Dawn Bridge, and he usually manages to cap both strength and defence by about level 15

That's actually impossible without giving Aran stat boosters. Aran is tricky because he has a significant chance of being doubled by enemies if his speed is low. Depending on what level he is, he can actually turn out to be a liability and even if he is at a good level he relies on a certain degree of luck because he's only useful if he gets good levels (in comparison to someone like Nolan who is less reliant on getting good levels). Nolan is more durable and hits harder than him in Part 3, and requires less training and is faster and generally beats him in every conceivable area.

whereas even at a higher level nephenee is scarily fragile, and although useful for elincia's chapters she is often outshined by Titania, oscar or even Gatrie as a lancer wielder when she joins Ike's Greil mercenaries and although her speed is superior to Aran's and she can double most things unfortunatly her strength usually let's her down and she doesn't do much and this is a real issue when Ike's chapters are full of armoured knights and cavaliers, thankfully at least with Aran he can feed the kills to someone in Micaiah's team who needs the experience like Jill or Nolan.

Aran has a far tougher time gaining levels than Jill or Nolan (and it's not super easy for them to begin with), trust me. Aran is going to be the one who needs to be babysat and needs feeding.

Feel free to agree/disagree with me just leave points for your arguments.

Also has anyone noticed and other similarities?

The tier list as it stands has evolved out of a specific style of play. It assumes the player is competent, knows the fastest way to get things done and does so. Aran struggles to keep up with other units in such an environment.

Edited October 25, 2012 by Anouleth

[ClLoulD]

They're not. I barely even touch Aran and Zihark. They're decent units, don't get me wrong, but not essential for anything.

That's actually impossible without giving Aran stat boosters. Aran is tricky because he has a significant chance of being doubled by enemies if his speed is low. Depending on what level he is, he can actually turn out to be a liability and even if he is at a good level he relies on a certain degree of luck because he's only useful if he gets good levels (in comparison to someone like Nolan who is less reliant on getting good levels). Nolan is more durable and hits harder than him in Part 3, and requires less training and is faster and generally beats him in every conceivable area.

Aran has a far tougher time gaining levels than Jill or Nolan (and it's not super easy for them to begin with), trust me. Aran is going to be the one who needs to be babysat and needs feeding.

The tier list as it stands has evolved out of a specific style of play. It assumes the player is competent, knows the fastest way to get things done and does so. Aran struggles to keep up with other units in such an environment.

I don't understand how that's actually impossible :F usually he caps his strength and defence at around those levels for me and he gets pretty decent experience, yeah he does get doubled sometime but usually his defence pulls him through it and he gets pretty decent experience from countering and killing a few enemies, the level difference isn't too much of an issue for me because that really only matters in endgame and if I wanted to I could just power level him in the Izuka chapter but I would probably dump him after that chapter to bring in someone else who would utilize the Wishblade better. Nephenee is significantly better for endgame but I just think Aran pulls his weight more for the DB than Nephenee does for the GM.

[ClLoulD]

Double posted, sorry.

Edited October 25, 2012 by ClLoulD