Hardest difficulty in any FE Game (Poll)?

[darkkfan]

So I've beaten all of these except the FE13 one and I want to know how it compares to the other difficulties. Which difficulty mode do you think is the hardest (based on things like how many times you need to reset without RNG abuse, relative stats of enemies, how much thought goes into each move, and how much you are forced to use prepromotes or another specific character/class)? On a side note (if you want to, of course), explain why you think the game you chose is more difficult than the other three options. I am specifically interested in those who choose FE13 Lunatic+, since I can't imagine it being harder than FE12 Lunatic'.

If you think it is a game/mode other than FE11,12, or 13, please post and explain. Also, if you think a certain mode is the most difficult for a reason other than the ones I mentioned, please explain. If enough "Other" options are selected with good reasoning, I will add them to the poll, but I don't anticipate that happening.

Thanks, and I look forward to seeing the feedback!

Edited December 13, 2012 by starfirelord

[Strunk]

[spoiler=My Opinions On The Matter]I can't honestly say that any mode in the series is harder than, or even as hard as, for that matter, Lunatic Plus mode in Fire Emblem Awakening.

When it gets to the point where having infinite time to train and the ability to have all of your characters come back to life when they die, and it's still not enough to save you, you know you've truly reached an extreme difficulty.

The enemies in Lunatic Plus have several powerful skills, one of which allowing them to always attack first, which is basically what Lunatic Reverse gives all enemies. Lunatic Plus also has skills that allow the enemy to block half of the melee damage you can give them, half the magical damage you can give them, skills that make them always hit, an ability that actually allows them to move through your characters to attack anybody you're keeping in the back lines, such as your Healers or Mages, along with a few other skills.

Basically, any given enemy could be just as dangerous as an enemy from Lunatic Reverse, while also having several other gamebreaking abilities on top of that.

This is just my opinion, but from what I've seen, a lot of people that have played Lunatic Plus agree with me.

As a side note, FE11's Merciless (Hard 5) Mode isn't even as hard as FE12's Lunatic, much less Lunatic Reverse. It's actually about as hard as the difficulty setting under Lunatic, which is called Maniac. Obviously, this would mean it isn't the hardest mode in the series, considering it has four difficulty settings above it.

Edited December 9, 2012 by Strunk

[CT075]

i found forcing myself to play fe5 without warp harder than any of the above

(okay reverse lunatic is of comparable difficulty)

[Constable Reggie]

i found forcing myself to play fe5 without warp harder than any of the above

Trying to legitimately kill Reinhardt was utter hell.

[Scarlet]

Trying to legitimately kill Reinhardt was utter hell.

It's as simple as putting a Magic Up'd Grafcalibur!Asvel with a scroll in his inventory in range of the Gelbritter squad, provided he has enough HP.

I haven't played FE13 yet, but:

FE11 H5 is an utter and complete joke to even FE12's plain 'n simple Lunatic. FE12 Lunatic Reverse must be ungodly ridiculous.

[deleted35362]

You're all wrong

Gheb FE is the hardest

Of all the FE gams I've played, Hector Hard mode was the hardest. Only played 4 FE games, btw. Only beaten 2.

[Constable Reggie]

It's as simple as putting a Magic Up'd Grafcalibur!Asvel with a scroll in his inventory in range of the Gelbritter squad, provided he has enough HP.

That's extremely, extremely situational though, and even then it's not surefire since Reinhardt's pretty much not missing and he can abuse Asvel's generally low defense.

[Dark Sage]

How is that situational when Asvel is one of the best units in the game and thus is likely to be used and trained.

Alternatively, you can just throw Mareeta her PRF and Trewd at him.

[Othin]

I am specifically interested in those who choose FE13 Lunatic+, since I can't imagine it being harder than FE12 Lunatic'.

See, FE12 really doesn't have buffs. The few buffs it has are just pathetic. So being possible meant having enemies you could plausible take on with your characters at pretty much base strength. Not much fancy stuff necessary.

FE13 has buffs, and on the highest difficulties, you damn well need them. You toss around characters without buffs and most of them are likely to be one-rounded. Surviving such an onslaught requires making full use of the far more complex mechanics to get your characters to the strength they need, which is of course much more difficult, requiring far more creativity and planning.

That's the two Lunatic difficulties pitted against each other, with FE13 coming out quite a bit ahead. When we get to Lunatic' vs. Lunatic+, the gap just gets even wider. Lunatic+ enemies get two added special skills, and Vantage+, containing the entire Lunatic' buff to FE12 enemies, is among the weakest. So FE13 Lunatic is already harder than FE12 Lunatic, and on Lunatic+, the weakest enemies get more of a bonus than any of the Lunatic' ones do.

So yeah. There's really no question about it.

[shadykid]

See, FE12 really doesn't have buffs. The few buffs it has are just pathetic. So being possible meant having enemies you could plausible take on with your characters at pretty much base strength. Not much fancy stuff necessary.

FE13 has buffs, and on the highest difficulties, you damn well need them. You toss around characters without buffs and most of them are likely to be one-rounded. Surviving such an onslaught requires making full use of the far more complex mechanics to get your characters to the strength they need, which is of course much more difficult, requiring far more creativity and planning.

That's the two Lunatic difficulties pitted against each other, with FE13 coming out quite a bit ahead. When we get to Lunatic' vs. Lunatic+, the gap just gets even wider. Lunatic+ enemies get two added special skills, and Vantage+, containing the entire Lunatic' buff to FE12 enemies, is among the weakest. So FE13 Lunatic is already harder than FE12 Lunatic, and on Lunatic+, the weakest enemies get more of a bonus than any of the Lunatic' ones do.

So yeah. There's really no question about it.

I'm calling BS on this, those mechanics are not complex at all.

[General Banzai]

Thracia

[Constable Reggie]

How is that situational when Asvel is one of the best units in the game and thus is likely to be used and trained.

Alternatively, you can just throw Mareeta her PRF and Trewd at him.

How can you ensure a 40 use tome (likely 30~ after 4x) will last until chapter 22, including all the mage knights, when repair is better off used on much better shit like Thief, Brave Lance, etc? How can you ensure that Reinhardt doesn't proc his 25% remove and simply move past Asvel and easily kill off one of your other units?

And I personally tried to use a maxed out Mareeta w/Sword against Reinhardt, and it's still incredibly luck based. Not only do you have to safely handle the 10+ mage knights in front of Reinhardt, but you have to basically hope to god that Mareeta/Trewd crits with incredibly bad hit rates, but you have to ensure they do it before Reinhardt's instant-death counter. The only way I was personally able to beat him was when all his mage knights inexplicably stopped following him and went around the bridge, and I threw Mareeta and Awareness+Beo Sword Fergus at him with Delmud+Nanna right behind them and every leadership star unit deployed. I'm sure that having Asvel would have made it slightly easier, but it's still no surefire way to beat him whatsoever.

edit: Keep in mind that Asvel/select few magic units/Awareness units are the only possible way to kill Reinhardt. Any other unit will likely get immediately killed.

Edited December 10, 2012 by Constable Reggie

[Anouleth]

i found forcing myself to play fe5 without warp harder than any of the above

(okay reverse lunatic is of comparable difficulty)

I haven't played FE5 all the way through, or FE12 Lunatic, but from what I played, FE12 Lunatic was significantly harder.

[Integrity]

FE12 Lunatic is significantly harder than FE5. FE5 never had me start a chapter thinking "is this even fucking possible?" where FE12 Prologue alone started me with that every single chapter.

The earlygame post-prologue chapters lightened the load by keeping me to "is it even possible to get all the items/recruit this dude?" instead.

[Scarlet]

How can you ensure a 40 use tome (likely 30~ after 4x) will last until chapter 22, including all the mage knights, when repair is better off used on much better shit like Thief, Brave Lance, etc?

If you don't have Grafcalibur anymore at that point, a simple Wind tome should also do. Grafcalibur simply is preferable, that's all.

How can you ensure that Reinhardt doesn't proc his 25% remove and simply move past Asvel and easily kill off one of your other units?

By keeping your other units far enough away

Not only do you have to safely handle the 10+ mage knights in front of Reinhardt,

Any unit with 27 magic (capped magic + Magic Up) takes laughably little damage from the Gelbritter squad even if they get hit, and a scroll in that unit's inventory ensures you don't take a crit to the face. Reinhardt is the only one of the bunch who's actually dangerous, and that's only if he activates Great Shield or Asvel (or whatever magic user you end up using) miraculously doesn't crit his face off for whatever reason.

but it's still no surefire way to beat him whatsoever.

You'd have to have incredibly bad luck for Asvel to lose to Reinhardt as long as the latter's using Dime Thunder. If he gets close enough to use the sword, Asvel might be in trouble, but again, it's not very likely.

And if you really don't want to deal with Reinhardt, you could always just berserk him (or even better, warp-skip the entire chapter).

[General Horace]

alternatively you can just steal reinhardt's shit with Tina <3

on topic, loony fe12 makes h5 look like a joke

and one look at thracia enemy stats in like chapter 18 that are inferior to almost all your chapter 1 units makes parts of the game a joke

Edited December 10, 2012 by General Horace

[Constable Reggie]

If you don't have Grafcalibur anymore at that point, a simple Wind tome should also do. Grafcalibur simply is preferable, that's all.

I highly question having wind tomes at all, let alone at chapter 22. But even if we do, then it still doesn't stop Asvel from dying from mentioned below.

By keeping your other units far enough away

The bridge behind you is destroyed. You can't get Nanna/Delmud's extremely valuable charisma if they're too far away, either.

Any unit with 27 magic (capped magic + Magic Up) takes laughably little damage from the Gelbritter squad even if they get hit, and a scroll in that unit's inventory ensures you don't take a crit to the face. Reinhardt is the only one of the bunch who's actually dangerous, and that's only if he activates Great Shield or Asvel (or whatever magic user you end up using) miraculously doesn't crit his face off for whatever reason.

Every physical unit will easily get rolled, though. By the way, there's also 2 long arches that can also easily kill your magic units, too.

You'd have to have incredibly bad luck for Asvel to lose to Reinhardt as long as the latter's using Dime Thunder. If he gets close enough to use the sword, Asvel might be in trouble, but again, it's not very likely.

Assuming Asvel will have around 8 defense and 38 health (this is with use of scrolls) at around 10/16, the arches will do about 22 damage to him and Reinhardt will do 10x2 damage (maintaining the 1st turn 7 mag is unlikely). None of them are missing, so it's pretty easy for Asvel to get killed. If Asvel doesn't get both a hit and a critical (which is dubious considering what people's hit rates are on this chapter), or if Reinhardt activates Great shield/Continue, or if an arch prioritizes him, or if Reinhardt uses his master sword, then Asvel's dead. Hence why I said it's extremely situational.

And if you really don't want to deal with Reinhardt, you could always just berserk him (or even better, warp-skip the entire chapter).

Uh, that was the whole point of this topic. Trying to get through chapter without resorting to the overpowered staves.

edit: The fact that Fe5's difficulty comes from things other than raw numbers is another reason I really like this game. The enemies in Fe5 really are at the most, pathetic. That won't stop them from kicking your ass cause you're put in extremely disadvantageous situations, though.

Edited December 10, 2012 by Constable Reggie

[RJWalker]

I refuse to play hard mode on any game because I don't play to challenge myself.

The hardest FE game I played is Sealed Sword. Even on the normal it was hard.

[Scarlet]

I highly question having wind tomes at all, let alone at chapter 22. But even if we do, then it still doesn't stop Asvel from dying from mentioned below.

Then you're really just Doing It Wrong . You can even buy them!

(The chapter 12 vendor sells Wind tomes, for instance. So does the one in chapter 21.)

The bridge behind you is destroyed.

So, what exactly stops you from just positioning your units further down? There even is a forest in the way - Reinhardt cannot possibly cross the entire map in one turn even if he procs Re-Move.

Every physical unit will easily get rolled, though. By the way, there's also 2 long arches that can also easily kill your magic units, too.

What are you even doing not getting rid of the ballistae first? It's like you're just trying to blindly force your way through.

Assuming Asvel will have around 8 defense and 38 health (this is with use of scrolls) at around 10/16, the arches will do about 22 damage to him and Reinhardt will do 10x2 damage (maintaining the 1st turn 7 mag is unlikely).

Just use Pure Water instead if you don't want to get too close with Magic Up.

Besides, Asvel has no business not having capped MAG this late in the game. Use more scrolls to help out of you must.

None of them are missing, so it's pretty easy for Asvel to get killed. If Asvel doesn't get both a hit and a critical (which is dubious considering what people's hit rates are on this chapter), or if Reinhardt activates Great shield/Continue, or if an arch prioritizes him, or if Reinhardt uses his master sword, then Asvel's dead. Hence why I said it's extremely situational.

Solution: get rid of Cyas first

This can be done either by attacking him, or by waiting 40 turns if you refuse to use staves for whatever reason

Uh, that was the whole point of this topic. Trying to get through chapter without resorting to the overpowered staves.

Why would you not use something the game not only readily gives you, but pretty much expects you to use at some points, and then complain that it's "utter hell"?

The game doesn't play "fair", so why should you?

[Anouleth]

I highly question having wind tomes at all, let alone at chapter 22. But even if we do, then it still doesn't stop Asvel from dying from mentioned below.

Do you know that Wind tomes are buyable in Chapter 21?

Uh, that was the whole point of this topic. Trying to get through chapter without resorting to the overpowered staves.

edit: The fact that Fe5's difficulty comes from things other than raw numbers is another reason I really like this game. The enemies in Fe5 really are at the most, pathetic. That won't stop them from kicking your ass cause you're put in extremely disadvantageous situations, though.

So why is Reinhardt being difficult a good thing, though? You're saying that Reinhardt is really difficult, and then saying in the next paragraph that the enemies in FE5 are really easy. How is it that FE5 can simultaneously be held up as creating difficulty without resorting to really strong enemies, and then Chapter 22 be held up as being the most difficult chapter when it's difficult because all the enemies get huge authority star boosts?

[Missile]

I play currently on FE12's Lunatic and it's painful... and funny. FE11 Hard 5 is actually hard only in earlygame (but chapter 13 was tough, fucking ballistaes), you can 1-turn the last chapters easily...

[Constable Reggie]

Do you know that Wind tomes are buyable in Chapter 21?

Why are we buying wind tomes when a) we don't get any money whatsoever and b) the little money we would have would be better spent on things like silvers/S drinks?

So why is Reinhardt being difficult a good thing, though? You're saying that Reinhardt is really difficult, and then saying in the next paragraph that the enemies in FE5 are really easy. How is it that FE5 can simultaneously be held up as creating difficulty without resorting to really strong enemies, and then Chapter 22 be held up as being the most difficult chapter when it's difficult because all the enemies get huge authority star boosts?

Reinhardt's map is one of the few exceptions, and even then it could be considered hard not purely because of enemy raw stats, but because of the authority stars, which greatly decrease after a point in time. Chapter 9 would be piss easy if we didn't have to rush as fast as possible to save the fail squad. Chapter 4 would be easy if all your units started out with their items, and you retained the Fiana militia.

edit: @ other person:

I was assuming Asvel with full mag, but I forgot about pure water. One of the arches is impossible to reach without going through Reinhardt. Also, warp is generally used to abuse the set pieces (forcing cyas out) that normally isn't possible with any other means, which I'd rather not resort to when trying to legitimately beat the game. Can you honestly say that you've beaten the entire game when you warpskip half the chapters in the game? The game expects you to fight against Reinhardt with those conditions set, if I simply skip the entire main point of the chapter, then I don't feel that I've completely beaten the game. You may argue otherwise, but nothing's going to stop me from thinking that.

Edited December 10, 2012 by Constable Reggie

[riariadne]

Why are we buying wind tomes when a) we don't get any money whatsoever and b) the little money we would have would be better spent on things like silvers/S drinks?

Wind is a great tome. Why are physical units entitled to weapons but magic users can't have tomes that cost significantly less? I'd rather have 2 wind tomes than a silver weapon at times, and it's only a little more expensive. Some other weak weapons like irons can be sold to get wind tomes easily.

Reinhardt's map is one of the few exceptions, and even then it could be considered hard not purely because of enemy raw stats, but because of the authority stars, which greatly decrease after a point in time. Chapter 9 would be piss easy if we didn't have to rush as fast as possible to save the fail squad. Chapter 4 would be easy if all your units started out with their items, and you retained the Fiana militia.

This is a ridiculous comparison. Leadership stars translate directly into stats for 40 turns. Whether it be because of the stats the unit has itself or if it's just being provided to them by an outside source is irrelevant, they are stats and you have to deal with them.

I was assuming Asvel with full mag, but I forgot about pure water. One of the arches is impossible to reach without going through Reinhardt.

I highly doubt one arch is going to kill your magic user. Scroll it up.

Also, warp is generally used to abuse the set pieces (forcing cyas out) that normally isn't possible with any other means, which I'd rather not resort to when trying to legitimately beat the game. Can you honestly say that you've beaten the entire game when you warpskip half the chapters in the game? The game expects you to fight against Reinhardt with those conditions set, if I simply skip the entire main point of the chapter, then I don't feel that I've completely beaten the game. You may argue otherwise, but nothing's going to stop me from thinking that.

This is a matter of opinion. If you don't want to use the resources given to you, fine, but it's your own fault if you're complaining about it afterwords. You actually get a warp staff in this very chapter... not too hard to capitalize on.

[Anouleth]

Why are we buying wind tomes when a) we don't get any money whatsoever and b) the little money we would have would be better spent on things like silvers/S drinks?

While S Drinks are indeed valuable, they are only buyable in Chapter 14... I consider it very likely that the player will have found 2200 amount of crap in the interceding eight chapters, given that capturing practically any enemy in the game gives you 1000 gold worth of stuff and often quite a big more. I think it's ridiculous to suggest that Reinhardt is "hard" because defeating him involves *gasp* buying a weapon. Yes, even if you hate using the capture system. Hell, looking at my draft playthrough (stalled in Chapter 16 due to boredom), I have 5500 just lying around, and countless piles of junk I'm never going to use in my convoy.

Plus, if you can't beat Reinhardt, then clearly the money is better spent on Wind.

Reinhardt's map is one of the few exceptions, and even then it could be considered hard not purely because of enemy raw stats, but because of the authority stars, which greatly decrease after a point in time.

Hit and avoid are stats. If they don't count, does that mean that I can say that FE6 is easy?

Chapter 9 would be piss easy if we didn't have to rush as fast as possible to save the fail squad.

It would be easy if those gosh darn wyverns didn't hide on top of those mountains!

Chapter 4 would be easy if all your units started out with their items, and you retained the Fiana militia.

edit: @ other person:

I was assuming Asvel with full mag, but I forgot about pure water. One of the arches is impossible to reach without going through Reinhardt. Also, warp is generally used to abuse the set pieces (forcing cyas out) that normally isn't possible with any other means, which I'd rather not resort to when trying to legitimately beat the game. Can you honestly say that you've beaten the entire game when you warpskip half the chapters in the game? The game expects you to fight against Reinhardt with those conditions set, if I simply skip the entire main point of the chapter, then I don't feel that I've completely beaten the game. You may argue otherwise, but nothing's going to stop me from thinking that.

Except that the game doesn't expect you to have Warp sit in your inventory and rot. In fact, it's physically impossible to perfectly rank the game without using Warp. In fact, the game even allows you multiple ways to easily get Cyas off the map, if you'd just stop trying to do it the single hardest way. No Warp, no Rewarp, and apparently no capturing if you don't even have enough money to buy a fucking Wind tome.

Yeah, the game is hard if you intentionally limit yourself from doing anything even vaguely intelligent.

Edited December 11, 2012 by Anouleth

[Scarlet]

No need to repeat what's been said, so I'll just adress this:

One of the arches is impossible to reach without going through Reinhardt.

It's not. You can safely destroy it with a siege tome.