The Lunatic Club

[Shadow Mir]

my terrible luck( hence my username) got me killed at the last part of the chapter.

Huh. I'll say you're not the only one here who knows a lot about terrible luck.

[Interceptor]

Probably going to center mostly around a largish team of Manakates, particularly Nowi!Morgan, Avatar!Nah, and Tiki (not going to use Nowi long-term) + various glass cannon types like Sumia!Lucina and Lon'qu

Why Manaketes, incidentally? Just for the consistently strong 2-range? Edited May 6, 2013 by Interceptor

[1% critted]

Huh. I'll say you're not the only one here who knows a lot about terrible luck.

I'm sure everyone here knows about terrible luck if they have played this series. Unless you are playing the DS FEs where no one misses. They can still 1% crit though.

[Interceptor]

^ Worth noting that a lot of the time you can avoid listed crit chances by using supports. Sometimes it's handy. The boss in Prologue, for example, doesn't have listed crit even on a -LCK Avatar if you fight with a Pair-up and two adjacent units.

[Shadow Mir]

I'm sure everyone here knows about terrible luck if they have played this series. Unless you are playing the DS FEs where no one misses. They can still 1% crit though.

True. Although, I'll just say there's a reason why I hold Luck in higher regard than most people here do.

[XeKr]

Nowi is viable long term if you fix her speed..

Tiki is better on Lunatic and lunatic+ though.

Why Manaketes, incidentally? Just for the consistently strong 2-range?

I'm not experienced enough in Nowi usage to know for sure, but the principle behind the team is to focus on overwhelmingly fast growers like Nowi!Morgan and Avatar!Nah with Veteran (Tiki also has silly good bases for her level. Nowi has low bases and is low level. Promoted human units do slow down growth a bit even with Veteran.). The Manakates are the focal point of the formations and the rest of the team supports them by dealing with Luna+/Counter (and Aegis+ somewhat). There's also a few Avoid stacking units like Lon'qu, who deal well with most stuff except Hawkeye/Counter (and Pavise+ somewhat). It's a team effort to kill the right enemies and have the right positioning for units to get favorable combat matchups since enemies get 2 Lunatic+ skills each. That's the theory at least. >_>

I will feed kills to Nowi and perhaps use her more if it seems like she grows fast enough. Though Nowi can't really do her normal tank-everything and get a bunch of exp due to Counter.

Edited May 6, 2013 by XeKr

[1% critted]

^ Worth noting that a lot of the time you can avoid listed crit chances by using supports. Sometimes it's handy. The boss in Prologue, for example, doesn't have listed crit even on a -LCK Avatar if you fight with a Pair-up and two adjacent units.

Yeah I'm running +DEF-LCK avatar, and the boss had 9% crit against her with chrom support. But if you get lissa and Fred adjacent and hit him with thunder he will have 0 crit.

Anyways I'm done with chapter 6 so I think I will make the log now.

Also how do you do that stat table thingy people do in logs?

Edited May 6, 2013 by 1% critted

[Interceptor]

I'm not experienced enough in Nowi usage to know for sure, but the principle behind the team is to focus on overwhelmingly fast growers like Nowi!Morgan and Avatar!Nah with Veteran (Tiki also has silly good bases for her level. Nowi has low bases and is low level. Promoted human units do slow down growth a bit even with Veteran.). The Manakates are the focal point of the formations and the rest of the team supports them by dealing with Luna+/Counter (and Aegis+ somewhat). There's also a few Avoid stacking units like Lon'qu, who deal well with most stuff except Hawkeye/Counter (and Pavise+ somewhat). It's a team effort to kill the right enemies and have the right positioning for units to get favorable combat matchups since enemies get 2 Lunatic+ skills each. That's the theory at least. >_>

I will feed kills to Nowi and perhaps use her more if it seems like she grows fast enough. Though Nowi can't really do her normal tank-everything and get a bunch of exp due to Counter.

Well, good luck with that strategy. I'm as big a N.O.W.I. fanboy as anyone, but I didn't even bother trying to train her. I feel like Luna+ is the domain of Snipers and Warriors. It's very dangerous to be unable to stop yourself from countering at 1-range, although Manaketes are really strong backliners, so if you can protect her from 1-range, it's probably strong.

Also how do you do that stat table thingy people do in logs?

You use code tags. If you want an example, just click on my Playlog thread, and Reply to one of my posts to see the specifics. You'll want to turn off the autoformatting mode (click the light switch in the upper left above BOLD), and I suggest making all of your changes in a fixed-width text editor (like Notepad or TextEdit) offline.

[1% critted]

Alright, thanks. I thought of using notepad after seeing the option but twas too late.

Edited May 6, 2013 by 1% critted

[darkkfan]

Well, good luck with that strategy. I'm as big a N.O.W.I. fanboy as anyone, but I didn't even bother trying to train her. I feel like Luna+ is the domain of Snipers and Warriors. It's very dangerous to be unable to stop yourself from countering at 1-range, although Manaketes are really strong backliners, so if you can protect her from 1-range, it's probably strong.

Ranged attacking is definitely more important in Luna+. Having a few competent mages and/or archers helps, but taking a crapload of healers along can usually solve the problem caused by a lack of ranged attacks. I can't comment on Nowi, since I never really used her, I just feel like that SPD would be too much of an issue.

I'm likely also doing an Lunatic+ run somewhat soon. I want to see how viable a playthrough that's not centered on a Chrom/FeAvatar Galeforcing family is. Also no Nosferatu, maybe no Sol.

Such a playthrough is almost definitely possible (I can't say for certain since I haven't gotten to late game yet, but it certainly looks to be the case). Most people I have talked to have used an overleveled avatar and while it is still a very respectable accomplishment, I much prefer to try to field a full team and keep things balanced. There are a few other people who feel this way (and again, nothing wrong with the people who use avatar extensively), but Chrom/Avatar/Morgan/Lucina families seem to be the trend for Luna+ so far.

Of course that'll probably mean reliance on other "cheap" stuff like Manakates and Avoid-stacking with a balanced team + Rescue spam to deal with the skill variance. Probably going to center mostly around a largish team of Manakates, particularly Nowi!Morgan, Avatar!Nah, and Tiki (not going to use Nowi long-term) + various glass cannon types like Sumia!Lucina and Lon'qu. Plus I kinda want to try misc things like Taguels as support partners for their Str/Spd Pair Up and Beastbane Dual Strikes.

I wouldn't call any of the things you listed "cheap". I'd say they are all just good playstyle decisions. Glass cannon types are just part of the strategy for beating Luna+ (especially ranged ones like Miriel) and Panne is a great earlygame pair up partner with or without beaststones.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Ranged attacking is definitely more important in Luna+. Having a few competent mages and/or archers helps, but taking a crapload of healers along can usually solve the problem caused by a lack of ranged attacks. I can't comment on Nowi, since I never really used her, I just feel like that SPD would be too much of an issue.

Nowi is definitely usable, but she wasn't really a star player in my run. Luna+ is actually a really scary ability for her since she depends on being a damage reduction tank.

Such a playthrough is almost definitely possible (I can't say for certain since I haven't gotten to late game yet, but it certainly looks to be the case). Most people I have talked to have used an overleveled avatar and while it is still a very respectable accomplishment, I much prefer to try to field a full team and keep things balanced. There are a few other people who feel this way (and again, nothing wrong with the people who use avatar extensively), but Chrom/Avatar/Morgan/Lucina families seem to be the trend for Luna+ so far.

I want to note that I fielded a full team too, although Avatar/Chrom ended up on point a lot of the time. It wasn't really that I was consciously trying to overuse Avatar (except maybe a bit in the early game to get someone other than Fred who can take a hit), but as battles progressed and everyone fought, she required less downtime before being able to get back into battle and stop the healers from getting overrun. The strong rise above the rest, if you will. This was especially apparent later in my run when Lucina/Morgan started outstripping Avatar/Chrom and being the safer point team (and both pairs often allowed me to hold an entire front with each taking one half of the line).

[darkkfan]

Nowi is definitely usable, but she wasn't really a star player in my run. Luna+ is actually a really scary ability for her since she depends on being a damage reduction tank.

That's a good point. I can't imagine 24 DEF General Fred will take too kindly to the Luna+ skill either!

I want to note that I fielded a full team too, although Avatar/Chrom ended up on point a lot of the time. It wasn't really that I was consciously trying to overuse Avatar (except maybe a bit in the early game to get someone other than Fred who can take a hit), but as battles progressed and everyone fought, she required less downtime before being able to get back into battle and stop the healers from getting overrun. The strong rise above the rest, if you will. This was especially apparent later in my run when Lucina/Morgan started outstripping Avatar/Chrom and being the safer point team (and both pairs often allowed me to hold an entire front with each taking one half of the line).

Don't worry, I knew you used a full team! You are one of the good guys ! When I was talking about people who overuse avatar and don't field a full team I was referring more to a hypothetical situation than to anyone in particular. Not to downplay anyone's accomplishment, if such a situation did exist, since as I've said beating Luna+ is certainly a respectable accomplishment no matter the circumstance and an avatar only run might even be harder than fielding a full team.

[Tables]

I've started my first Lunatic run (classic, naturally). Cleared prologue and chapter 1 so far - it's hard, but this early there's really only so many things you can do, so it's kinda just a case of trying out positions and opening moves until I find one that sticks.

Avatar (M) is +HP, -STR, and I'm intending to send him down the dark mage - sorcerer route eventually. Just to be a troll, he procced STR and no MAG on his first two levels (he still has a 45% STR and 50% MAG growths, mind you so it's not that weird.

Not worked out my team yet. Thinking it'll probably be Chrom x Sully, Avatar, Nowi and all of their children. Think I want to add at least one main person to that, might decide after seeing what people are like in chapters 2-3 (so maybe one of Vaike, Miriel, Sumia or Kellam), and I'll want a partner for them... which might be Lissa I guess, do still need a healer.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

an avatar only run might even be harder than fielding a full team.

It likely would be, even if allowed to pair up and use Chrom as a dedicated support unit, thanks to Counter. Although they'd need to get that far first, as the first few chapters would murder them. Some allowance for Fred use would probably have to be made.

I imagine a small elite squad (~3 combat pairs) run would be easier than a full army run, which would in turn be easier than an Avatar/Chrom duo.

[Missile]

I've finally decided to do a Lunatic + run... not yet.

I have a few questions :

- I want to get 50 000 renown before playing this mode, which character should get stats boosters, Naga's tears or Boots ?

- This time I will used MU with Veteran and second seals, on which class should I reclass her ?

- Besides Nowi, Lon'qu, Panne and Cordelia, are they any another really good units ? (I heard about Virion, but his bases sucks, maybe he will love naga's tears ? )

- I must avoid counter at every cost, right ?

[Redwall]

Anyone know if each Lunatic+ skill occurs with equal probability? If there are seven skills and enemies are given two unique ones, then there is a 6/7 * 5/6 = 5/7 chance of NOT getting, say, Counter. Having only two in seven enemies with Counter seems accurate from my experience (maybe it's just the confirmation bias talking), but I was curious if this matched others' experiences also.

[1% critted]

I really don't know, but you are probably right. I once had a Myrm get counter 10 times in a row though.

[Othin]

Anyone know if each Lunatic+ skill occurs with equal probability? If there are seven skills and enemies are given two unique ones, then there is a 6/7 * 5/6 = 5/7 chance of NOT getting, say, Counter. Having only two in seven enemies with Counter seems accurate from my experience (maybe it's just the confirmation bias talking), but I was curious if this matched others' experiences also.

In the first few chapters, when it's just Pass, Hawkeye, Luna+, and Vantage+, I noticed that Pass seemed to be on almost all of the non-stationary enemies; I gathered some data and noticed it seemed to have about twice the likelihood of showing up. I didn't pay attention for trends past that point, though.

[Tables]

What are the 7 Lunatic+ skills? Vantage+, Hawkeye, Luna+, Pavise+, Aegis+, Counter and...?

Edit: Oh, it's Pass. Okay.

Anyway, just finished chapter 4 on my Lunatic run. Three character's have died so far, but none I care about so they can be fodder - Vaike, Kellam and Virion I believe it was. Gotta say, for all the hype chapter 2 gets, I found it pretty straightforward. Chapter 3, on the other hand, is insane. Took me about a dozen tries, probably, and I only really succeeded because I'd lucked into a Superior Lance. Being surrounded by 9 enemies who close in from two sides is a nightmare. Once they're done you just need to watch for the hammer and eh.

Chapter 4 was relatively easy, in comparison. Kellam died to protect Lissa, wasn't too fussed about it though.

Now got to decide whether to do side story 1, chapter 5, or the free DLC level next... or indeed, if I actually want to do the DLC levels.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Tables

[Othin]

My usual route both on Lunatic and Lunatic+ is Ch4 --> Marth --> P1 --> Ch5, but yeah that depends on if you want to allow DLC. If you don't replay them to grind on them, they're a fun way of easing the journey a bit and giving you the resources to have a bit more flexibility in what you go for.

[Interceptor]

Well, one of the reasons that Ch2 was easy and Ch3 was harder for you, is that you let people die. >.>

[1% critted]

YES, LOPTO GRIMA REQUIRES MORE BLOOD.

[Tables]

Well, one of the reasons that Ch2 was easy and Ch3 was harder for you, is that you let people die. >.>

Nobody died in Ch2, and two people died in Ch3. I could have avoided it but eh. And either way like I said, they were not really important people.

I'm just surprised people find Ch2 so hard without any mention of Ch3 is all. Ch2 was basically, send Fred forwards to draw a bunch of enemies, move him to the trees, kill the wad of weakened enemies with everyone else. Ch3 required a few resets to actually kill the enemies on the right quickly enough without dying, and get everyone ready to deal with the enemies from the left (containing two archers, ugh).

[Othin]

Nobody died in Ch2, and two people died in Ch3. I could have avoided it but eh. And either way like I said, they were not really important people.

They kind of are. Vaike's Str bonus and Kellam's Def bonus in Pair Up are great to have when you have the space on your team, and while he's not as amazing as on Lunatic+, Virion is great on the higher difficulty levels for his bow access.

[XeKr]

For Chapter 2, Fred or Avatar need to have pretty exact positioning or the team is overwhelmed turn 2. Plus the enemy now has Steel which actually hurts. Plus need to protect Miriel, etc. It is not that bad in Lunatic once you know what you're doing.

Also I think more people do Avatar-centric strategies now, and a level 14 Avatar + Frederick makes chapter 3 quite easy. Or Frederick+Kellam can tank stuff. On that note, letting Kellam die is minor issue since he gives the most Def early on in Pair Up, but it shouldn't be a huge problem depending on the rest of the team. >_>