So why was Thracia 776 even made?

[Constable Reggie]

Mareeta's not even that good.

[CT075]

neither is shanan

[Constable Reggie]

He can one round anything with no danger until the very last chapters. Explain how that's not very good.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Constable Reggie

[CT075]

shanan (the kid with the legendary sword) is legitimately not that great of a unit

he can't go slice up an enemy if celice/aless/leaf has murdered it first

also re "repetitive strats" basically every strat past chapter like 12 is "warp asvel/mareeta to boss" "kill boss" "warp leaf" done

pre-11 it's "walk asvel to boss" "kill boss" done

Edited February 15, 2013 by CT075

[Constable Reggie]

Give him the leg ring Even if he's not that great compared to the mounted units it doesn't change Fe4's easy difficulty due to the abudance of overpowered units simply handed to you.

So basically the same reasoning behind "pathetically easy" ie abusing Thracia's system with knowledge beforehand. Fe12's lunatic mode is pathetically easy because Paola, MU, Catria, and Sirius.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Constable Reggie

[CT075]

"just because it's easy to cap stats in fe5 doesn't change it's difficulty with the absurd amount of resources the game gives you"

i honestly don't count having to spend another turn trying to warp leaf because my staff user missed as 'difficulty'

[Constable Reggie]

Explain what is the absurd amount of resources the game gives you. Because as far as I can recall, the game gives you no money and not nearly enough items needed to finish game.

And using ltc strategy as your reasoning isn't going to do anything for me, because as far as I know, the majority of Fire Emblem players don't give a shit about ltc.

[CT075]

capture everything, like everything

forget ltc, warping everything is actually the easiest way to beat the game

you can argue "you don't have to warp because that's cheap" but then i can argue that "you don't have to use the absurd units fe4 gives you"

Edited February 15, 2013 by CT075

[Constable Reggie]

That's not the game handing you resources. You have to use and implement into your strategy the entirely unique mechanic all the time in order progress through the game (in a seamless, unobtrusive way) ie one of the great reasons why Thracia is so great.

Why do we even bother tier listing characters then? Everyone should just be soloing Fe7 with Marcus or Fe8 with Seth every playthrough, because clearly that's the best way to play the game.

I'm not arguing that warp is cheap, therefore don't use it. I'm arguing that going into the game with knowledge that staves can abuse the game in unorthodox ways isn't good reasoning to say that the game is pathetically easy. Because then I could say something similar to every other Fire Emblem game.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Constable Reggie

[LeaderR Elliot]

So basically the same reasoning behind "pathetically easy" ie abusing Thracia's system with knowledge beforehand. Fe12's lunatic mode is pathetically easy because Paola, MU, Catria, and Sirius.

You cannot use these 4 brainlessly though, you might want especific stats for a chapter in early game and capped STR and SPD lategame, a good MU like Fighter!MU at chapter 6 is getting 2HKO with the nonexistent defense even with HIGH HP, Palla is a goddess indeed, catria needs silver to get better offence and you might possibly bench sirius if by chp 11 he doesnt get 17 SPD.

But hey even when you get them to their broken level I would love to see people fighting the highest peak of New mystery difficulty dealing with all enemies in chp 20 i like to think that is comparable to lets say chp 22 in thracia.

[Klokinator]

Maybe it's because the dialogue was untranslated, but FE5 was by far the hardest game in the series for me. I died multiple times (I even tried sacrificing a unit or two, but when I say died, I mean "was wholly and utterly annhilated") nearly every mid chapter, and since I like actually playing the chapters and not warp abusing (Didn't even know that was a thing till SF) I had to use actual strategy.

FE4: Broken units, more backtracking than Metroid, godawful huge maps, exact same goal every goddamn chapter ("Seize all 14 castles!") awful arena/item/money system, and the only cool redeeming unique feature was the marriage and children system, assuming you could actually stand all the abominable gameplay quirks I just listed.

Also, FE5's capture system was cool as shit, and thracia FoW is seriously legit. Best FoW ever.

[Constable Reggie]

Silly Klok, didn't you know you can just apparently send/warp Asvel into everything and win the game?

and you're right, thracia's difficulty comes from bullshit unreliability that i would really rather not have to deal with

alt text:

"oh right because fe4's lack of difficulty is because they throw bullshit legendary weapons users at you"

you're not even citing the real broken units

Didn't see this cause it was edited in.

You're right. You have to decide between reliably killing a unit, versus risking a chance of utter failure by trying to capture them. Decisions are bad, man.

I was citing the units that are outright powerful from the start (or gain ridiculous boosts in some time) with no investment. I'm sure Holsety Arthur can fuck the game over in all sorts of unethical manners, but you have to do a lot in order to get to that point. In the meantime, you've got units with +20 speed and other ridiculous boosts that can manage the same thing, and they're simply handed to you.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Constable Reggie

[FrostyFireMage]

I like Thracia for the gritty atmosphere compared to other FE titles, but it's definitely not the best FE game. You need an extensive knowledge of the game to even complete it, and even then you need a considerable amount of luck to avoid having to restart a chapter multiple times.

[Tamanoir]

30 Mag Berserk staff user. With Prayer/Wrath. And a Resire. Because it wouldn't be funny otherwise.

Also Berserk sword user indoor, when you haven't any decent lance user.

Th difference between FE4 and Fe5 is that, for most of FE4, you don't really need them. In Fe5, it's a requirement.

Even with maxed broken unit, Final is hard as hell. You can't say FE5 is easy. Especially easier than FE4.

Is the difficulty well implemented ? Probably not,but it's an entirely different problem.

This game really left me a strong mark, that's for sure, even if it isn't really my favorite. (I actually prefered playing FE4, but it's irelevant to the conversation)

[Jotari]

I'm going to go ahead and say this topic has been quite derailed...yet people seem to be enjoying themselves so I'm not going to insist you all stop.

[Paperblade]

shanan (the kid with the legendary sword) is legitimately not that great of a unit

he can't go slice up an enemy if celice/aless/leaf has murdered it first

"Shanan sucks because there is only one way to play the game and that's how I play the game" - CT075, forum poster

[Chiki]

"Shanan sucks because there is only one way to play the game and that's how I play the game" - CT075, forum poster

Lol what are you even talking about? His statement is perfectly true.

[Constable Reggie]

Only if you're just rushing through the game with the only goal of low turn count. Otherwise he's a practically invincible unit that one rounds everything from the second he joins your party. I'm not sure why you think ltc playstyle is the only way to judge units, especially considering that only a small minority of fe players actually cares about that style of play.

[CT075]

you're not allowed to complain about how long it takes to move units across the map and then promote the use of a unit that takes more time to move across a map

[Constable Reggie]

Because the time taken to move units across empty parts of map isn't exclusive only to infantry units.

Edited February 15, 2013 by Constable Reggie

[Tamanoir]

I'm going to go ahead and say this topic has been quite derailed...yet people seem to be enjoying themselves so I'm not going to insist you all stop.

Honestly, that was kinda expected...

And calling FE5 "pathetically easy" is the biggest troll act you could do here.

You could discuss his uses afterwards, but Shanan does performs greatly in his joining chapter.

Shanan surely isn't the best unit, but it isn't bad by any means. coughdontfeedthetrollcough44

EDIT : 2 more point. You ARE expected to use all your units in FE4. And in FE5, you can't use all these awesome units for each fight.

So discussing the use of Shanan is absolutely pointless, since you will deploy it in every chapter, and it will be usefull in each of them.

There's a huge difference between having to makes conscious choice to make the game harder, and using cheap tricks to make a game easier.

EDIT 2 : FE5 is really hard, if you deny this, you're either trolling, or delusional.

FE4 is pretty easy, but still have pretty challenging parts.

Difficulty, or lack of it, isn't enough to judge the quality of a game anyway.

FE5's difficulty works because it's linked to the overall atmosphere of the game, IMO, whih it's why it somehow works.

FE4 have a pretty big replay value, so it benifits not being too hard.

Edited February 15, 2013 by TendaSlime

[arvilino]

I think the first time through I only had a tough time because thanks to the community at the time I ended up thinking promoted units like Dagda were not worth using and rare weapons not worth using until "later" therefore needlessly upping the difficulty for myself. While skill is also a factor I found a more recent regular Normal mode play through way easier than an Elite Mode play through with save states and Arena/Scroll Abuse my first time through

The fatigue system,while preventing you can't just keep using the same characters isn't that, enough units start stronger or quickly become stronger than the non-boss enemies ever get that beyond your Staff Users(until later on when you have many high ranked ones) and characters required for recruiting or events it's not going to affect you too much unless you purposely limit who you use.

I wouldn't say FE5 is really hard. Just a bit difficult.

[Jedi]

I would assume because of the time skip and the fact that Finn and later Leif were quite popular characters. IS decided to give Leif a game. Which turned out to be one of the more interesting titles in the franchise a fun rollarcoaster from beginning to end, it can be difficult but if you know the tricks of the trade you can easily cheapen out the game as Cam said with Warp and Asvel/Mareeta. Or you can ironman through everything or use other various tactics if you'd like.

I would really love to see dismounting and capturing come back in a future fire emblem I felt it sort of balanced out units more [the having to dismount indoors deal anyways but this is just a little side note]

Everyone has a playstyle, I tend to keep my mind open to both that of LTC and just a regular player, there will always been LTC vs Casual style and this frustrates me, can't we all just get along? ^^; play how you wish. This is the reason I try to keep a more open mind. I like both styles going fast is EXCITING AND FRUSTRATING. Just playing regularly has its ups as well you use your favorites regardless of the "tiers" and you have alot of fun. Fire Emblem seems to have an odd appeal to both so why don't we calm down and get back on the original topic?

[Chiki]

We can judge units based on efficiency, and Shanan isn't too good in that regard.

Anyway, most people who claim that FE5 is their favorite haven't even finished it.

[Duff Ostrich]

So much arguing over semantics!

Anyway, most people who claim that FE5 is their favorite haven't even finished it.

I find that difficult to believe. My favorite is the comparatively unpopular Sword of Seals, and I completed Thracia on cart (so no savestates) with minimal warpskip (excluding chapters 12x and 22, iirc).

Thracia's difficulty can be a bit overstated sometimes, but it certainly tasks the player with more than what FE4's unavoidably trivial grind. As long as you're actually willing to play Thracia there are a variety of challenges to get out of it, which often change from one chapter to the next. FE4 is always the same, and always easy. I'm not sure why some people are refusing to acknowledge the obvious distinction.