Chiki Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 (edited) I'm very excited about LTCing this game for a number of reasons. First of all is pair up, which could potentially lead to a number of turn cuts--the most obvious example being having Frederick rescue Chrom or something to kill a boss, but another example could be that Lissa can pair up with the Avatar to increase her Rescue staff range. Another reason I'm excited is because of the abundance of Rescue staffs in this game. But there are a bunch of complications that arise from all the options given to us by the game. 1. Should grinding be allowed? 2. Should DLC characters be allowed? 3. Should Spotpass characters be allowed? 4. Should Paralogues be considered? I'm wondering what you guys think about this. Edited February 18, 2013 by Olwen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 (edited) Well, since grinding, the DLC characters, and Spotpass characters are banned in drafts, I don't think they should be allowed. And Paralogues should be considered, yeah. Edited February 18, 2013 by ZeeEmm456 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone2Ground Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I think maybe aim for doing all DLC chapters once if you have them, and adding those onto your turn list. No grinding, or manual recording of number of turns in the grinding. Spotpass...eh. No clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Skye Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I think you could allow grinding if you make it count for turns. But I wouldn't say that Hard Mode is tough enough that it requires grinding, once you get your Galeforce units ready. DLC characters could also be allowed if the map counts for turns. If you allow Renown, then I don't think you should allow Spotpass because you can sell off the Ultimate Emblem to recruit some insane Spotpass Characters like Ashnard. Though Spotpass does bring in some interesting options such as Deliverer Florina. Paralogues are optional, so I don't think they should be assumed. Take the turns if you want them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Isn't it a typical rule to have sidequests be free up to a certain number of turns? That should work here. As for DLC, I'd think a "standard" list would want to exclude it completely, but it would be cool to see an alternative list allowing one play of each DLC map under those same sidequest rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwall Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 (edited) 1. I don't see why they should be. Anyone whose team is lacking in experience can simply choose to turtle in the mandatory levels, at the expense of a higher turncount: for example, Chapter 14 can be cleared in one turn rather easily, but waiting until turn two to clear it allows for a large chunk of experience to be accrued during turn one enemy phase from having enemies from several fronts charge at you and dying from your counterattacks. 2. No, it would probably take out much of the challenge. 4. Paralogues 1-4 are all available regardless of how you choose your pairings, so I think they ought to be allowed. Paralogue 17 can be tricky given the low amount of experience accrued during LTC runs, so maybe that should be allowed, but optional. I think the children sidequests should be allowed but optional, and should count against the cumulative turncount since you benefit from the EXP. (Though I would expect that under my proposed ruleset, the only children Paralogue worth doing is Morgan's. I completed that one in four turns while getting all the treasure, and having a dedicated Rally Rainbow user not named Avatar probably saves well over four turns in the long run.) Edited February 18, 2013 by Redwall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 You'll want Galeforce and Deliverer asap and Rescue chaining. I think you should LTC the paralogues too because thats usually how its done in not-draft LTCs. Theoretical hard mode minimum is an estimated 45 turns without counting the paralogues btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 Theoretical hard mode minimum is an estimated 45 turns 2 turns per chapter? Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arvilino Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 2 turns per chapter? Why? Probably because some of the smaller route maps and there's ~9 Boss kill chapters that can be done in 1-2 turns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gergeshwan Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I think grinding should probably be out, but if you required all the children Paralogues you would probably have to do some in order to complete pairings. Even if you don't include the children Paralogues (which probably makes more sense, most of the kids would be useless anyway), the other Paralogues are probably worth considering since you don't have to do anything to get them. The game throws a lot of money at you, so buying overpowered SpotPass characters wouldn't be too difficult if they were allowed. The DLC characters should probably be out too, but I don't know if they would be all that useful anyway. Of course, as long as you set the rules ahead of time, just about anything would be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwall Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 On Hard mode, Prologue, Chapter 1, and Chapter 2 each takes three turns, so I'm still having a hard time seeing how 45 turns can be achieved, with or without serious RNG manipulation. There aren't that many assassination missions, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 I'm starting to lean towards allowing SpotPass characters. I do think they're a part of the game regardless of how cheap they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 It's really easy to get 1 turn on like half the chapters in this game, thanks in part to the infinite Rescue/Galeforce which you find so "interesting." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 There's definitely a substantial number you can feasibly 1-turn, but it's not overwhelming. At a glance, I can see it working on 13, 14, 16, 19, 22, 25, and maybe Final. Certainly not anything before 13. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 Galeforce doesn't seem to be very practical in a playthrough. Level 15 Darkflier is hard to get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Galeforce doesn't seem to be very practical in a playthrough. Level 15 Darkflier is hard to get. For whom? FeMU, with Veteran and like 70% of the kills you'll get throughout the game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 For whom? FeMU, with Veteran and like 70% of the kills you'll get throughout the game? I'd still need more than one unit per rout map though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 (edited) On Hard mode, Prologue, Chapter 1, and Chapter 2 each takes three turns, so I'm still having a hard time seeing how 45 turns can be achieved, with or without serious RNG manipulation. There aren't that many assassination missions, anyway. Prologue 3 Chapter 1 3/6 Chapter 2 3/9 Chapter 3 3/12 Chapter 4 2/14 Chapter 5 3/17 (maybe can be 2 turned?) Chapter 6 3/20 Chapter 7 2/22 Chapter 8 4/26 Chapter 9 2/28 Chapter 10 2/30 Chapter 11 2/32 Chapter 12 2/34 Chapter 13 1/35 Chapter 14 1/36 Chapter 15 2/38 Chapter 16 1/39 Chapter 17 1/40 Chapter 18 1/41 Chapter 19 1/42 Chapter 20 1/43 Chapter 21 1/44 Chapter 22 1/45 Chapter 23 2/47 Chapter 24 2/49 (can probably be 1 turned) Chapter 25 1/50 (requires Galeforce or 2 deliverers [1 with boots] and a rescuer) Endgame 1/51 The 45 was a typo of 49, but thats a potential TC. 51 is more likely because Ch5 and 24 its just a hunch I got whether a turn can be shaved in them or not. EDIT: Chapter 1 can be 2 turned with massive RNG manipulation. Forgot about that one because I dont do it even though I know it exists. Edited February 19, 2013 by CordeliaxFrederick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balcerzak Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Why is Hard Mode the yardstick you seem to be using here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 (edited) I'll probably do Normal and Lunatic. What units do you suggest using for an LTC? Edited February 19, 2013 by Olwen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Why is Hard Mode the yardstick you seem to be using here? Because its the one I LTC for :P. I dont expect Normal Mode to differ much from Hard Mode LTC. And Lunatic is another world altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I'll probably do Normal and Lunatic. What units do you suggest using for an LTC? I'm not really experienced in Lunatic LTC yet but... Units that can acquire Deliverer like reclassed Griffon Riders/Cherche, Dark Flier Avatar and Rescue users like Anna that have tons of rescue range. Dark Knights give +mov and mag to a rescuer, so using 1 can help sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Prologue 3 Chapter 1 3/6 Chapter 2 3/9 Chapter 3 3/12 Chapter 4 2/14 Chapter 5 3/17 (maybe can be 2 turned?) Chapter 6 3/20 Chapter 7 2/22 Chapter 8 4/26 Chapter 9 2/28 Chapter 10 2/30 Chapter 11 2/32 Chapter 12 2/34 Chapter 13 1/35 Chapter 14 1/36 Chapter 15 2/38 Chapter 16 1/39 Chapter 17 1/40 Chapter 18 1/41 Chapter 19 1/42 Chapter 20 1/43 Chapter 21 1/44 Chapter 22 1/45 Chapter 23 2/47 Chapter 24 2/49 (can probably be 1 turned) Chapter 25 1/50 (requires Galeforce or 2 deliverers [1 with boots] and a rescuer) Endgame 1/51 The 45 was a typo of 49, but thats a potential TC. 51 is more likely because Ch5 and 24 its just a hunch I got whether a turn can be shaved in them or not. EDIT: Chapter 1 can be 2 turned with massive RNG manipulation. Forgot about that one because I dont do it even though I know it exists. How many of these has anyone actually strung together in one playthrough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiki Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 49 turns doesn't seem very practical without grinding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 (edited) That's what I know are the minimums, they dont neccesarily have to happen in the same playthrough but they exist and theyre there. Hence why Ive been saying theoretical minimum :/. Whether someone will manage to do them all in one run is yet to be seen. But I'd like to believe it can be done. Edited February 19, 2013 by CordeliaxFrederick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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