BEXP System if it were present in other FE games

[Espinosa]

Let's imagine for a moment that the ability to distribute BEXP exists in FE games prior to and following the Tellius games. The amount awared could be linked to turns, but also ranks as we know them from FE4/the GBA games or maybe character recruitment as seen in Thracia.

What I'm wondering is how this feature would change the game and the effectiveness of characters in it.

Some ideas:

• Feeding Thany BEXP could let her promote earlier / give her a chance to level up with her disastrous combat proficiency
• Fir could become a second foot unit destroyer after Rutger with a quick BEXP dump
• Seth would no longer dominate FE8 so much because you'd be able to build up units with equal strength in a certain period of time; useful for rout maps

Healers would get to promotion faster

But the general themes would probably be:

• Devaluation of prepromotes in later chapters
• Easier time with Est-ish characters
• Ability to turn any single unit into a monster to trivialise the game

[ZemZem]

Would the BEXP system be available for LNM/LHM in FE7? If so, Florina, Kent, and Sain would be even more OP.

[Gryz]

Ability to turn any single unit into a monster to trivialise the game

... ... ... even Wendy? I dunno. I think we might have to also steal the reclassing feature from the DS/3DS games.

[viyut]

Seth would no longer dominate FE8 so much because you'd be able to build up units with equal strength in a certain period of time

That wouldn't happen, you'd be in chapter 9 by the time you got enough BEXP for a single unit. It'd be similar to tower abuse.

[shadykid]

That wouldn't happen, you'd be in chapter 9 by the time you got enough BEXP for a single unit. It'd be similar to tower abuse.

Seth would be closer to Titania than his usual OP self at any rate

and with BEXP, Thany would probably be Marcia-lite

(hey, Donnel really can be god if you give him 9 BEXP levels immediately! )

[Gryz]

Hell, FE6 Merlinus can actually gain levels without it being a total test of the player's patience and sanity.

[dondon151]

from the perspective of efficient play, good characters get better and bad characters are more or less unchanged

this is the big problem with all resource allocation in fire emblem. everything increases the gap between good units and bad units as opposed to doing the converse.

[aku chi]

from the perspective of efficient play, good characters get better and bad characters are more or less unchanged

this is the big problem with all resource allocation in fire emblem. everything increases the gap between good units and bad units as opposed to doing the converse.

That is not an accurate generalization. Consider if FE9 had no Bexp. With Bexp, Marcia and Titania are both great units. Without Bexp, Titania is comparatively better (it takes much longer before you can get a unit to replicate Titania's contributions) and Marcia is comparitively worse (she can't make her super-flier contributions in C12 and C15 at the very least).

[Chiki]

Agreed. I found Jill with bexp and resources more useful than Haar in FE10, but without any of those Jill would be trash.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Olwen

[dondon151]

That is not an accurate generalization. Consider if FE9 had no Bexp. With Bexp, Marcia and Titania are both great units. Without Bexp, Titania is comparatively better (it takes much longer before you can get a unit to replicate Titania's contributions) and Marcia is comparitively worse (she can't make her super-flier contributions in C12 and C15 at the very least).

no, it is an accurate generalization. marcia and jill are still pretty good without BEXP (the 0% growths run demonstrates that pretty adequately). please note that i did not specify a 1-to-1 relationship between how good a unit is and how much they benefit from BEXP, so there is no inaccuracy to point out. it's still true, anyway, even if you're just trying to be a contrarian by denying it.

Agreed. I found Jill with bexp and resources more useful than Haar in FE10, but without any of those Jill would be trash.

haar without BEXP and resources is not super duper amazing either. it is trivial to show that a traditionally bad character would still be bad even with BEXP and resources, hence proving my point.

Edited February 26, 2013 by dondon151

[Hawk King]

Yeah dondon is right.

Units like Franz and Vanessa would be better with Bexp. Units like Amelia and Ewan would still be bad.

Why would you give Amelia 9 Lvs worth of Bexp just to make her useable when that same amount of Bexp could go to Franz, Forde, or Kyle to make them a 2nd Seth?

And saying Marcia is not as good as Titania and Jill is not as good as Haar without Bexp doesnt say anything because FE9 Marcia and FE 10 Jill are still good units when you play without Bexp, regardless of how much better Titania and Haar are.

[Chiki]

Saying FE9 Marcia is good without resources is silly. Sure she's okay (high tier without any resources except cexp), but she's nothing compared to what she could have been.

And using Espinosa's run as proof? Really? As far as I recall he used a Master Seal on Marcia, which is itself a resource. Secondly, he hasn't even come close to finishing his run yet! Marcia hasn't even done much compared to what she could do with a bexp dump.

And Jill is just trash in hard mode without bexp and other resources like stat boosters. Jill is upper middle in the HM tier list, and I'm pretty sure with a decent amount of favoritism she can go above Haar.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Olwen

[dondon151]

Saying FE9 Marcia is good without resources is silly. Sure she's okay (high tier without any resources except cexp), but she's nothing compared to what she could have been.

yeah dude high tier is pretty good

And using Espinosa's run as proof? Really? As far as I recall he used a Master Seal on Marcia, which is itself a resource. Secondly, he hasn't even come close to finishing his run yet! Marcia hasn't even done much compared to what she could do with a bexp dump.

so you agree with me that BEXP makes good units even better

And Jill is just trash in hard mode without bexp and other resources like stat boosters. Jill is upper middle in the HM tier list, and I'm pretty sure with a decent amount of favoritism she can go above Haar.

jill without BEXP is better than other unpromoted DB units without BEXP, and jill with BEXP is way better than other unpromoted DB units with BEXP

not disproving my point

if i wanted to be more specific i would say that BEXP disproportionately benefits fliers, staffers, mounties, and dedicated bosskillers (all of whom join early-to-midgame) but units in those 4 niches are pretty much universally good, so the general and specific statements are more or less equivalent

man it's like you can't stop disagreeing with me even if you don't disagree

Edited February 26, 2013 by dondon151

[Chiki]

I thought you meant good and bad characters compared individually as opposed to a group of good characters and a group of bad characters; even so there's the example of Jill.

You seem to be making a fallacy. Just because Jill is better than other DB units doesn't mean she's good. According to the tier list, she's simply okay. Neither good nor bad. Where would you put her?

[MacLovin]

fe4 BEXP to Leaf asap would allow him to rescue spam sooner.

fe6 BEXP would make Thany/Tate more durable and combat worthy.

fe7 BEXP would....well. Break it.

fe8. [Franz, Seth, Nessie, Tana, Cormag] it would make NEimi worthy because ranger is a decent class and Lute would have no trouble getting to promotion then staffspam.[same with the rest.]

fe11/12........idk

fe5-Dump on Carrion/Eda/Karin to profit some bit, dump on whomever to profit. Dump on miranda to salvage. Fuck Shanam.

fe3-LolFe3 needing it.

fe2-Villagers and Atlas?

TRS-Yes please, Ester and Sasha could start raping around route split.

[Refa]

BEXP in FE11 would really improve the Wolfguard for one thing uh...if it was more along the lines of FE9, I hear the FE10 system is quite a bit costlier.

[aku chi]

so you agree with me that BEXP makes good units even better

Some units. Other units, like Titania and Seth, would be made comparitively worse.

Here's another FE9 example, lower down the tier list. Mist is made much better by the existence of Bexp (it takes a loooong time for her to promote without it). Lethe is made comparitively worse by the existence of Bexp (Bexp allows the Cavaliers to match her combat earlier). Or even further. Elincia is made much better by the existence of Bexp (it greatly increases her Rescue range). Janaff is made comparatively worse (it's much easier for Marcia and Jill to outclass him with Bexp). Need I go on?

Your general principle does not hold.

[dondon151]

Some units. Other units, like Titania and Seth, would be made comparitively worse.

comparatively worse to whom

they are only comparatively worse to a couple of units because jill and marcia get much better with BEXP (due to being early fliers). BEXP still arguably makes them better than unpromoted mounties because it takes less BEXP for titania to reach a certain stat threshold than it does for oscar to do the same.

Your general principle does not hold.

you haven't proved that my general principle doesn't hold if you only cite specific examples against it. prove that it is incorrect in the general case (hint: it's not).

my god it's like you completely ignored the rest of my previous post. don't be a slowpoke.

Edited February 26, 2013 by dondon151

[Hash Jar]

Why are people arguing extremes only?

The inclusion of BEXP in other games would make loads of differences, much more than most of you are arguing. Titania and Seth are not the only characters in the game...

For example lets say you use Seth and other units (because of course you are going to). Earlier characters that would usually get little to no use may become viably good units early on, which would make some of the later units (that players would normally use, because they are innately better) become less important. This could help shave TCs early on, making new strategies and such.

Yes BEXP would make good units better, but that does not mean that new strategies wouldn't come into play and change the way certain units are used.

[Silith]

I guess this is semi-necroposting but the Fe:9/10 board hardly sees action anyways.

If you put in Bexp it's likely going to make characters that have a bit of a hard early time but very good potential better. I'm talking about High mobility characters. Like the early Pegasus knight that usually needs to be fed some kills to get going. They will just rocket up in usefullness and start destroyign EVERYTHING in sight.

[MRDRHAWK]

If it means I can dump BEXP into Ross to skip him fighting as a Journeyman, then neat.

[lonelyVoxel]

If it means I can dump BEXP into Ross to skip him fighting as a Journeyman, then neat.

I enjoy fighting with Ross as a Journeyman, but I find him to be an EXP leech with my ways. But yeah, this.