The Brand (minor spoilers?)

[VincentASM]

Just something trivial I thought of, after I remembered Leif and Seliph's recruitment convos in this game.

Does anyone believe that the Mark of the Exalt, the Brand in Tellius and the Holy Markings (Brand) in Jugdral are all the same thing?

I mean they're all essentially symbols "gifted" to man as a result of mixing bloods, granting them stronger powers.

It also can't be a coincidence that NOA localised "Holy Marking" as "Brand", IMO anyway. Leif and Seliph also clearly recognise the Avatar's mark as a Holy Marking funnily enough, the developer notes call it an "Evil Marking" : P.

[Dai]

It sounds interesting, although Branded(unless we're thinking of a different Brand from Tellius) were just markings to show whom had Laguz heritage in their Beorc ancestry, if memory serves.

[Acacia Sgt]

Well, considering Naga was involved in 2 of those 3 cases, I'd say that yes, at least when it comes to the Exalt's and the Jugdrali ones. Though the Exalt's is not entirely the same, considering it's not as restricted. Though exceptions do seem to pop up.

[Just call me AL]

Agreeing with Acacia Sgt, though I'm thinking the Exhalt's blood may be a bit more potent considering Chrom, his elder sister, his nephew, his Daughter, and apparently, his second child, all seem to have the mark.

Although to be honest, I'm having difficulties trying to see how the blood's potency and the frequency of the marks in question are tied.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Little Al

[Saria]

I think the general principle behind the Brands in each universe is the same, albeit work differently.

Jurgdal's Holy Markings are passed down in their family lines and allow their hosts to wield the legendary weapons of that world. (Granted to them by Naga)

The Mark of the Exalt and the Mark of Grima seem to have the same idea as Jurgdal's. At least the Exalt one, since it allows it's bearer to wield Falchion.. (also from Naga)

The Brand in Tellius is the only one that's different, though it still grants it's bearers stronger power over at least humans, it just doesn't follow the concept of weapon exclusivity with them. Though, didn't Altina's line have some special gift only those with the Brand could perform? Like singing the Galdr of release, or could any heron do so I can't remember.. If so then at least in that instance it's similar to the other worlds brands.

Fire Emblem has a tendency to repeat concepts in each game, so it wouldn't surprise me if all the Brands work with similar concepts through each series. Awakening especially ties in a lot of things from other series.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Saria

[Silver Lightning]

Interesting theory. While I don't think that the Laguz/Beorc brand is as relevant as the other two, it sort of makes sense; did NoA localize the Jugdrali Markings as Brands? If they did, it would actually seem to point at a connection across these worlds, especially with Naga...

This reminds me: did they ever explain why in the game that Lissa didn't inherit the Brand of the Exalt but her son Owain did? I also heard that Chrom's possible other child inherits it as well. That would make Lissa the only known descendant not to inherit it: I don't remember them going over the reason in the game (other than Lissa rejoicing at her legitimacy in the royal line after meeting Owain) but

I guess I may have missed it....or not???

[Just call me AL]

If I'm not mistaken, the brand on Altina's family does allow is bearer to sing the Galdrar of Release, which was exclusive to Lehran before he formed a family.

[Saria]

Interesting theory. While I don't think that the Laguz/Beorc brand is as relevant as the other two, it sort of makes sense; did NoA localize the Jugdrali Markings as Brands? If they did, it would actually seem to point at a connection across these worlds, especially with Naga...

This reminds me: did they ever explain why in the game that Lissa didn't inherit the Brand of the Exalt but her son Owain did? I also heard that Chrom's possible other child inherits it as well. That would make Lissa the only known descendant not to inherit it: I don't remember them going over the reason in the game (other than Lissa rejoicing at her legitimacy in the royal line after meeting Owain) but

I guess I may have missed it....or not???

The only actual thing they said about Lissa not inheriting it was that it was completely by chance her's never surfaced, which was mentioned in Owain's recruitment I think... They never went into detail over it, so I guess Lissa was just a fluke if every other descendant of the Exalt in the game has the potential for or already has the Brand.

[VincentASM]

I was thinking the Tellius Brands are more powerful, because the Beorc inherited the Laguz blood from breeding with the Laguz. Meanwhile the Awakening/Jugdral Brands might be weaker versions, as a result of a blood pact, which may not be a physical exchange of blood.

The Mark of the Exalt inheritance we observe actually follows the Jugdral Brand rule--it's totally random.

Now that I think about it, weren't the Tellius Brands randomly inherited too? Just because your ancestor was a Branded doesn't mean you will be (and, I'm guessing, just because you weren't a Branded doesn't mean your son/daughter won't be one).

Edited February 25, 2013 by VincentASM

[Acacia Sgt]

Now that I think about it, weren't the Tellius Brands randomly inherited too? Just because your ancestor was a Branded doesn't mean you will be (and, I'm guessing, just because you weren't a Branded doesn't mean your son/daughter won't be one).

Indeed it was. Stefan says his parents were both Beorc, and yet he has the Brand. Apparently the only requirement is that the blood mixed at some point, no matter how distant from when it actually manifests.

[Just call me AL]

If memory serves correctly, the Tellius brands were random. Especially seeing as Sanaki doesn't have one.

Edit: Ninja'd, though the above post explains it better.

Edited February 25, 2013 by Little Al

[Shadow Stalker X]

I was thinking the Tellius Brands are more powerful, because the Beorc inherited the Laguz blood from breeding with the Laguz. Meanwhile the Awakening/Jugdral Brands might be weaker versions, as a result of a blood pact, which may not be a physical exchange of blood.

The Mark of the Exalt inheritance we observe actually follows the Jugdral Brand rule--it's totally random.

Now that I think about it, weren't the Tellius Brands randomly inherited too? Just because your ancestor was a Branded doesn't mean you will be (and, I'm guessing, just because you weren't a Branded doesn't mean your son/daughter won't be one).

I think I remember that in the early days after the taboo, there weren't any Brands appearing, only starting to show up a few generations later. As far as it showing up at the time of FE9/10, Sanaki is the only example I can think of that didn't have a Brand.

[Silver Lightning]

Well, I think we also have to take into account who the person had a child with; if you're a person that has inherited enough Laguz blood to have a brand and you have a child who may or may not be branded, would it matter if the person you had a child with was beorc, laguz, or branded themselves? Maybe the chances can change a bit then. I've always been curious about this.

[Anacybele]

I think inheriting brands works genetically, much like genetics do in real life. Let's take Chrom's parents, for example. At least one had to have the mark of Naga, obviously. But the other likely didn't, as if they did, they'd be a close relative of their spouse, and FE pretty much doesn't do that unless someone hacks the game.

Anyway, so one of Chrom's parents has the mark, the other doesn't. The mark is the dominate gene, and no mark is the recessive gene. The parent that has the mark would have a make up like the basic gene table for a characteristic:

RR.....Rr

Rr.....rr

R is dominate, r is recessive. So this parent has a 75% chance of passing the dominate gene for the mark of Naga to a child. But the OTHER parent lacks the mark at all, meaning they can't possibly pass it on at all, so this leaves it at a solid 50% chance that they will have a child bearing the mark. Now if BOTH parents had a mark, which is likely impossible, they'd both carry the dominate gene, and always have a child with the mark.

Chrom and Emmeryn are Rr since they obviously have the mark and only one of their parents can pass on the dominate gene. Lissa doesn't, so she is rr and inherited the recessive gene rather than the dominate one.

This all applies to the Branded in Tellius as well. It's really basic genetics, actually.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Anacybele

[Sock]

The thing with the Branded in Tellius is that they have longer lifespans. So uh...not the same thing. Though I do agree that it is plausible it is a weaker/stronger version of it, because of the "blood bonding vs intimate union" aspect.

It might just be something--like the Fire Emblem--that keeps showing up in various games. The Tellius Fire Emblem has absolutely nothing to do with the Akaneia Fire Emblem. ...Though Akaneia's Fire Emblem is also called the "Pedestal of Flames" and the "Shield of Seals"... A'right, that was a terrible example...

[Acacia Sgt]

I think inheriting brands works genetically, much like genetics do in real life. Let's take Chrom's parents, for example. At least one had to have the mark of Naga, obviously. But the other likely didn't, as if they did, they'd be a close relative of their spouse, and FE pretty much doesn't do that unless someone hacks the game.

Anyway, so one of Chrom's parents has the mark, the other doesn't. The mark is the dominate gene, and no mark is the recessive gene. The parent that has the mark would have a make up like the basic gene table for a characteristic:

RR.....Rr

Rr.....rr

R is dominate, r is recessive. So this parent has a 75% chance of passing the dominate gene for the mark of Naga to a child. But the OTHER parent lacks the mark at all, meaning they can't possibly pass it on at all, so this leaves it at a solid 50% chance that they will have a child bearing the mark. Now if BOTH parents had a mark, which is likely impossible, they'd both carry the dominate gene, and always have a child with the mark.

Chrom and Emmeryn are either RR or Rr since they obviously have the mark. Lissa doesn't, so she is rr and inherited the recessive gene rather than the dominate one.

This all applies to the Branded in Tellius as well. It's really basic genetics, actually.

How does this logic applies to Owain then, who has the mark? I know that speaking in genetics, this means Lissa is just a carrier, but then for the mark to appear wouldn't then she had to marry another carrier? I don't think any of the other characters are related to the Royal Family in that case.

Besides, with what is shown so far, Lissa could just be an exception as far as we know. Whether there has been another mark-less member of the Royal Family, we don't know, to know for sure if the mark is suppose to appear in every single blood-related member or not.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Acacia Sgt

[Just call me AL]

I think inheriting brands works genetically, much like genetics do in real life. Let's take Chrom's parents, for example. At least one had to have the mark of Naga, obviously. But the other likely didn't, as if they did, they'd be a close relative of their spouse, and FE pretty much doesn't do that unless someone hacks the game.

Anyway, so one of Chrom's parents has the mark, the other doesn't. The mark is the dominate gene, and no mark is the recessive gene. The parent that has the mark would have a make up like the basic gene table for a characteristic:

RR.....Rr

Rr.....rr

R is dominate, r is recessive. So this parent has a 75% chance of passing the dominate gene for the mark of Naga to a child. But the OTHER parent lacks the mark at all, meaning they can't possibly pass it on at all, so this leaves it at a solid 50% chance that they will have a child bearing the mark. Now if BOTH parents had a mark, which is likely impossible, they'd both carry the dominate gene, and always have a child with the mark.

Chrom and Emmeryn are either RR or Rr since they obviously have the mark. Lissa doesn't, so she is rr and inherited the recessive gene rather than the dominate one.

This all applies to the Branded in Tellius as well. It's really basic genetics, actually.

What about The descendants of the Crusaders in Jugdral? Ayra doesn't exactly have Major Odo despite her elder (half) siblings both seem to have Major Odo.

Just felt like throwing this out. But I guess what I'm asking is "How would this apply to anyone in Fes 4 & 5?"

Edited February 26, 2013 by Little Al

[Nayr Farros]

Spoiler

[spoiler=Awakening Avatar Ending Detail]

The Avatar's brand disappears if he/she kills Grima and survives.

The epilogue scene is the same as the opening scene with Chrom and Lissa, except the Brand isn't on the back of his/her hand, and Chrom says "it's over" after he pulls him/her up.

Meaning the Avatar's brand was a sign of his connection to Grima.

[Echo]

If my limited knowledge of genetics is still correct, it would make more sense for the brand to be the recessive gene. Yes, that narrows down the possibility of the child getting the gene, but it also means that the brand wouldn't show up in the others who inherit the gene, so carriers wouldn't have a brand, making it much more likely than having random people with a hint of royal blood showing up with a brand. Or, it's just magical, and Naga makes sure every generation of the royal line has a branded individual to wield Falchion.

[Mysterique Sign]

I've been arguing this since the beginning and everyone said I was crazy!

Also stop using real world genetics to explain fantasy games

Edited February 26, 2013 by Mysterique Sign

[Anacybele]

How does this logic applies to Owain then, who has the mark? I know that speaking in genetics, this means Lissa is just a carrier, but then for the mark to appear wouldn't then she had to marry another carrier? I don't think any of the other characters are related to the Royal Family in that case.

Besides, with what is shown so far, Lissa could just be an exception as far as we know. Whether there has been another mark-less member of the Royal Family, we don't know, to know for sure if the mark is suppose to appear in every single blood-related member or not.

Genes can also skip generations, you know. Lissa may be rr and not have the mark, but she's still a carrier of the actual gene for the mark of Naga can have a child with the mark, as you say. It's just not as likely for her to have a child with the mark as it is for Chrom or Emmeryn, so Owain is a rarer case.

It's like how I wear glasses, yet neither of my parents do, but my grandmother does. A trait of having to wear glasses showed up in me, but not my mother, my grandma's daughter.

I'm not exactly sure how genes skipping generations works, though. It's been awhile since I last studied this stuff. I also edited my post because I later realized that in order for Chrom or Emmeryn to be RR, both parents would have to pass the dominate gene, and that's not possible. lol my bad.

[Saria]

What about The descendants of the Crusaders in Jugdral? Ayra doesn't exactly have Major Odo despite her elder (half) siblings both seem to have Major Odo.

Just felt like throwing this out. But I guess what I'm asking is "How would this apply to anyone in Fes 4 & 5?"

From what I remember/saw in the Jurgdal series, it seems like only one descendant from each generation gets Major Holy Blood so only one person can wield their holy weapon. Characters with siblings show this best:

Lief (Minor) vs Altenna (Major)

Raquesis (Minor) vs Eltshan (Major)

Adean (Minor) vs Briggid (Major)

But I know you can manipulate Ayra's children's blood if you have her marry Holyn to get Larcei and Ulster to have major blood, but they still lock Balmung to just Shanan I think.

Anyways, the point I'm making is, I think Jurgdal's bloodlines are way more exclusive compared to the Exalt's bloodlines. While a lot of characters in the Jurgdal series carry minor blood, major blood resulting in a brand is much more rare than the Exalt's brand, seeing as both Emmeryn and Chrom in their generation, and then Lucina and Owain (and possibly Lucina's sibling) all inherit it.

I'm not very clear on if Mananan and Maricle both had major Odo blood though, so they might dispel what I just said if they do. But I know in the other cases mentioned above, it was once per generation and seemed to be directly affected by who has the major blood in the previous generation.

[Just call me AL]

Mananan and Maricle both have Major Odo. And apparently, Ayra's older sister as well, at least according to this.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Little Al

[Saria]

Mananan and Maricle both have Major Odo. And apparently, Ayra's older sister as well, at least according to this..

Hm, then Odo's bloodline works differently than the others. According to that gene tree, every other family operates under the 'once per generation rule'. I wonder why that is... maybe they just do more in-family marriages than any other tree?

[Acacia Sgt]

From what I remember/saw in the Jurgdal series, it seems like only one descendant from each generation gets Major Holy Blood so only one person can wield their holy weapon. Characters with siblings show this best:

Lief (Minor) vs Altenna (Major)

Raquesis (Minor) vs Eltshan (Major)

Adean (Minor) vs Briggid (Major)

But I know you can manipulate Ayra's children's blood if you have her marry Holyn to get Larcei and Ulster to have major blood, but they still lock Balmung to just Shanan I think.

Anyways, the point I'm making is, I think Jurgdal's bloodlines are way more exclusive compared to the Exalt's bloodlines. While a lot of characters in the Jurgdal series carry minor blood, major blood resulting in a brand is much more rare than the Exalt's brand, seeing as both Emmeryn and Chrom in their generation, and then Lucina and Owain (and possibly Lucina's sibling) all inherit it.

I'm not very clear on if Mananan and Maricle both had major Odo blood though, so they might dispel what I just said if they do. But I know in the other cases mentioned above, it was once per generation and seemed to be directly affected by who has the major blood in the previous generation.

Well, by manipulating a glitch you can have either of them hold the Balmung, and they can indeed use it if they have Major Odo.

I know dialogue from Thraccia mention Galzus and Mareeta have the markings of Odo, but is the marking really a sign of having Major Blood? From what I remember of the conversation, the only thing mentioned regarding the markings was that they were related to the Isaacian Royal Family, not regarding if they could wield or not Balmung.

Edited February 26, 2013 by Acacia Sgt