Galeforce + Lifetaker

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

E

I dunno about you, but I'd be more worried about enemies with Counter on Enemy Phase.

That's actually why I like Galeforce-Lifetaker so much. I've often seen three or so Warriors in a cluster, which I've then eliminated in a single Galeforce chain, ending with full HP, despite lacking ranged attacks. Since Armsthrift is disappointingly rare, I don't like to use Brave weapons unless absolutely necessary. If neither units in a pair have Braves, offensive skills (e.g. Luna) can make the difference between ORKOing (and healing 40 HP) and suffering massive damage. Sol can mitigate the damage but won't save you from retribution, where offensive skills not called Astra can result not only in fewer enemies on the field but more HP to protect you during the enemy phase.

[Shadow Mir]

That's actually why I like Galeforce-Lifetaker so much. I've often seen three or so Warriors in a cluster, which I've then eliminated in a single Galeforce chain, ending with full HP, despite lacking ranged attacks. Since Armsthrift is disappointingly rare, I don't like to use Brave weapons unless absolutely necessary. If neither units in a pair have Braves, offensive skills (e.g. Luna) can make the difference between ORKOing (and healing 40 HP) and suffering massive damage. Sol can mitigate the damage but won't save you from retribution, where offensive skills not called Astra can result not only in fewer enemies on the field but more HP to protect you during the enemy phase.

The issue comes from the fact that they tend to go after you in melee, and with their high HP and lowish defenses, unless you luck out with a crit, you WILL NOT be OHKOing them, in which case, yer eating a lot of damage back. And I consider enemy phase to be more important than player phase in the grand scheme of things.

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

And Sol can keep you from dying anywhere, anytime, since it's an activated skill like the rest, and you get to fill the rest of your skill slots with things like Swordfaire or Swordbreaker (depending on your class options) to make it even more reliable than it already is, which is to say all the time.

Sol's reliable with high Skl and/or Rightful King, and only if you don't have Lethality/Astra. When equipped to a unit with Luna, Ignis, or Vengeance, it usually prevents those skills from activating. This is presuming that Limit Break and/or Rightful King push the activation rate well over 50%.

Are we talking about the game as a whole, or The Strongest One's Name? Because the latter is basically the only way I can see your point apply. Also, last time I looked over the Warrior class, I don't quite remember them possess great Defense, and especially not good Resistance, meaning you chip of a decent amount of HP and safely get them on the enemy phase (otherwise, that's what we've got Rescue for).

During my very first playthrough, my first promoted class for Avatar was Hero. Sol made the game significantly easier. After that, though, I chose to go War Monk first, since Renewal doesn't rely on Skill% and doesn't require a kill to proc.

What I have in mind is postgame. Specifically, difficult DLC and StreetPass teams that, like mine, are significantly more difficult to defeat (on a decent map) than anything this side of Lunatic+.

And the thing about Tomes (and by extension, other weapons that are not locked at 1R) is that you'll be able to get in a safe attack on player phase which, so long as your strategy is sound, can chip of enough HP that Counter can be safely worked around and maybe be done into a negligible thing on the enemy phase, because that's when it counts most.

I agree that the enemy phase matters most and Galeforce is an incredibly useful tool for ensuring that you can secure an advantageous position. For instance, killing an enemy General with your Sage and switching to your own General to meet the enemy phase is wonderful. If you're using Galeforce to make your tactics as flexible as possible, you might as well throw Lifetaker in there, since they synergize so well. Counter Warriors are deadly in numbers, even if you're far stronger than they are. Being able to avoid getting swarmed by them is quite handy. Plus, Galeforce chains save turns, if you're into that sort of thing.

I don't mean to come across as bashing Sol. That'd be rather amusing, actually, since so many of my units have it equipped at all times. While one can't usually go wrong by throwing Sol onto a unit, it's not always optimal. I like to optimize as much as possible, as I'm sure most of us here do. Sol (like so many other things) trivializes the main game. Enemies can be mixed together enough that I can't always meet enemy armors with effective weapons or magic. Taking them down to very low HP and suffering a nasty Vengeance in return isn't fun. Sometimes, skills like Luna can be necessary to OHKO or ORKO. It's times like those that Sol can be a hindrance, especially since it seems to activate more frequently when I'm at full HP than when I actually need it. I know PEMN but I can't be the only one to get occasionally screwed by that.

The issue comes from the fact that they tend to go after you in melee, and with their high HP and lowish defenses, unless you luck out with a crit, you WILL NOT be OHKOing them, in which case, yer eating a lot of damage back. And I consider enemy phase to be more important than player phase in the grand scheme of things.

With a powerful enough unit in your pocket, you can reliably ORKO Warriors. Lifetaker will then give you up to 40 HP as a reward for doing so. Fighting multiple Warriors in a single enemy phase can be deadly. Having the opportunity to eliminate more than one of them during the player phase with units that would normally be unable to do so safely allows you more tactical flexibility.

[Shadow Mir]

What I have in mind is postgame. Specifically, difficult DLC and StreetPass teams that, like mine, are significantly more difficult to defeat (on a decent map) than anything this side of Lunatic+.

With a powerful enough unit in your pocket, you can reliably ORKO Warriors. Lifetaker will then give you up to 40 HP as a reward for doing so. Fighting multiple Warriors in a single enemy phase can be deadly. Having the opportunity to eliminate more than one of them during the player phase with units that would normally be unable to do so safely allows you more tactical flexibility.

Which I'd take to mean the ultimate DLC, since I don't really care about Streetpass.

True, but why would you engage a Counter warrior at melee range on player phase in the first place? That sounds senseless.

Edited April 10, 2013 by Levant Fortner

[algae]

True, but why would you engage a Counter warrior at melee range on player phase in the first place? That sounds senseless.

I think he means that you can kill counter-warriors from a distance on your turn before they have a change to attack you at melee range during the enemy's turn.

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

I think he means that you can kill counter-warriors from a distance on your turn before they have a change to attack you at melee range during the enemy's turn.

No, he's correct. It is, of course, a far better idea to kill the Warriors from a distance than to engage them at melee distance. However, Galeforce-Lifetaker let's me safely engage them at melee distance, while reliably activating combat skills to increase my damage output. If I can ORKO them, I can heal off the damage and be at full health during the enemy phase.

This tactic wouldn't work without Pair Up, since the pocket unit's attack doesn't proc the selected enemy's Counter. Thanks to Pair Up, I can often hit Counter Warriors in the face on the player phase with impunity, thus saving myself a potential reset following the enemy phase.

The point I'm trying to make is this: Galeforce-Lifetaker can make the enemy phase significantly safer. Since the enemy phase is much more dangerous than the player phase, this is tremendously helpful.

[Folt]

Sol's reliable with high Skl and/or Rightful King, and only if you don't have Lethality/Astra. When equipped to a unit with Luna, Ignis, or Vengeance, it usually prevents those skills from activating. This is presuming that Limit Break and/or Rightful King push the activation rate well over 50%.

Mercenaries/Heroes should already get some decent Skill off the bat. Their Skill growth should also be great, which means you won't be quite at the mercy of the RNG.

During my very first playthrough, my first promoted class for Avatar was Hero. Sol made the game significantly easier. After that, though, I chose to go War Monk first, since Renewal doesn't rely on Skill% and doesn't require a kill to proc.

What I have in mind is postgame. Specifically, difficult DLC and StreetPass teams that, like mine, are significantly more difficult to defeat (on a decent map) than anything this side of Lunatic+.

The only DLC that comes close to what you're thinking of should be The Strongest One's Name, that is equally hell on all difficulties.

I agree that the enemy phase matters most and Galeforce is an incredibly useful tool for ensuring that you can secure an advantageous position. For instance, killing an enemy General with your Sage and switching to your own General to meet the enemy phase is wonderful. If you're using Galeforce to make your tactics as flexible as possible, you might as well throw Lifetaker in there, since they synergize so well. Counter Warriors are deadly in numbers, even if you're far stronger than they are. Being able to avoid getting swarmed by them is quite handy. Plus, Galeforce chains save turns, if you're into that sort of thing.

I don't mean to come across as bashing Sol. That'd be rather amusing, actually, since so many of my units have it equipped at all times. While one can't usually go wrong by throwing Sol onto a unit, it's not always optimal. I like to optimize as much as possible, as I'm sure most of us here do. Sol (like so many other things) trivializes the main game. Enemies can be mixed together enough that I can't always meet enemy armors with effective weapons or magic. Taking them down to very low HP and suffering a nasty Vengeance in return isn't fun. Sometimes, skills like Luna can be necessary to OHKO or ORKO. It's times like those that Sol can be a hindrance, especially since it seems to activate more frequently when I'm at full HP than when I actually need it. I know PEMN but I can't be the only one to get occasionally screwed by that.

Best way to deal with Vengeance people would be to let them attack you first, ensure that you can counterattack, and then kill them on the player phase (where you attack first). It helps that most enemies with Vengeance tend to have bad Defense, Resistance, or both.

With a powerful enough unit in your pocket, you can reliably ORKO Warriors. Lifetaker will then give you up to 40 HP as a reward for doing so. Fighting multiple Warriors in a single enemy phase can be deadly. Having the opportunity to eliminate more than one of them during the player phase with units that would normally be unable to do so safely allows you more tactical flexibility.

When your unit is that powerful, it can probably take on the unit without needing those skills, so long as you've got a halfway decent strategy. They help, but can ultimately be unecessary because they don't really help you kill better: only faster (and I'd argue that you'd want your enemy wounded as well to ensure their activation, but eh, it's a different matter), only on player phase, and only when your units are already strong enough to be killing machines anyway.

No, he's correct. It is, of course, a far better idea to kill the Warriors from a distance than to engage them at melee distance. However, Galeforce-Lifetaker let's me safely engage them at melee distance, while reliably activating combat skills to increase my damage output. If I can ORKO them, I can heal off the damage and be at full health during the enemy phase.

This tactic wouldn't work without Pair Up, since the pocket unit's attack doesn't proc the selected enemy's Counter. Thanks to Pair Up, I can often hit Counter Warriors in the face on the player phase with impunity, thus saving myself a potential reset following the enemy phase.

The point I'm trying to make is this: Galeforce-Lifetaker can make the enemy phase significantly safer. Since the enemy phase is much more dangerous than the player phase, this is tremendously helpful.

If your unit already has Galeforce and Lifetaker, it is likely strong enough to withstand whatever comes your way anyway, meaning that enemy phase will be a bit less dangerous.

[Only My Unit]

Oh, how I love my combo I made in my Olivia file. Ignis-Agressor-Life Taker-Galeforce (Dread Fighter) Inigo paired with Astra-Renewal-Galeforce-Lifetaker Severa wrecked everything.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Only My Unit

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

Mercenaries/Heroes should already get some decent Skill off the bat. Their Skill growth should also be great, which means you won't be quite at the mercy of the RNG.

Oh, I don't doubt their ability to reliably activate Sol. What I doubt is anyone's ability to reliably activate it when they also have Lethality or Astra equipped. And if they have Luna, Ignis, or Vengeance, none of those are likely to activate, since Sol's activation takes priority. Lethality, Astra, Luna, and Ignis synergize quite nicely in any combination. Vengeance works well, I've found, when not paired with another such skill, but it's activation has the lowest priority.

The only DLC that comes close to what you're thinking of should be The Strongest One's Name, that is equally hell on all difficulties.

My ultimate goal is to defeat the Strongest One. Galeforce-Lifetaker will help because it'll allow me to regain health while also increasing my damage, courtesy of activated skills.

Best way to deal with Vengeance people would be to let them attack you first, ensure that you can counterattack, and then kill them on the player phase (where you attack first). It helps that most enemies with Vengeance tend to have bad Defense, Resistance, or both.

Thanks for the tip. I also find it very reliable to simply attack with two paired units with Braves, as they can usually kill them easily. However, regarding low defenses, I sometimes find myself facing Generals with Vengeance, using only a pair of physical units. Lifetaker's fantastic healing capabilities, coupled with Luna's reliable activation (thanks to the exclusion of Sol) allows me to force my way through without needing a more sophisticated plan. Yes, choosing to do the smart thing by using magic against Generals is more sophisticated than brutishly clobbering them to death in a less efficient manner.

When your unit is that powerful, it can probably take on the unit without needing those skills, so long as you've got a halfway decent strategy. They help, but can ultimately be unecessary because they don't really help you kill better: only faster (and I'd argue that you'd want your enemy wounded as well to ensure their activation, but eh, it's a different matter), only on player phase, and only when your units are already strong enough to be killing machines anyway.

Absolutely. However, I prefer to eschew tactics, letting my units' power and positioning secure my victory. This saves time, which is helpful when you don't have a lot of it.

If your unit already has Galeforce and Lifetaker, it is likely strong enough to withstand whatever comes your way anyway, meaning that enemy phase will be a bit less dangerous.

Pretty much. The only things that have ended careless runs of chapters have been Suicidal Counter Warriors, Lucky Vengeance Generals, and Start Enemy Phase Reinforcements. However, the Strongest One still remains for me to defeat.

[Folt]

Well, so long as we're in agreement that the combo tends to be possible only when you've actually grinded your units up to the point where you're able to withstand entire groups of normal units, I don't really have anything more to say on the matter.

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

Well, so long as we're in agreement that the combo tends to be possible only when you've actually grinded your units up to the point where you're able to withstand entire groups of normal units, I don't really have anything more to say on the matter.

Agreed. Disregarding Skill inheritance, Sol is easier to get and more reliable than Galeforce-Lifetaker for most of the game. Postgame is another story, of course.