Gharnef's Improved FE4 Translation Patch

[lonelyVoxel]

Sorry for the late reply. Snes9x/Snes9xgx. (Snes9xgx is the SNES emulator for the Wii.)

Hmm. It's human error in that case. Fun fact, there are NES and SNES emulators for PS2 if you care to try.

[Jugdral Defender]

Serlis was on the official FE website before anything was localized. So it wasn't technically a "fanslation". It was technically like what you did with "Tiltyu --> Tailto".

Ehh... I know it's a difficult job because the localization team made a lot of changes...

And I guess there's no other media left to get as a "source" but the official art... but "Tiltyu" to "Tailto" is still irking me... xD

I'm guessing that "Teeny" would probably be something they'd do with a weird spelling or a completely new name. But it is an actual name so who am I to complain?

Moving on.

Knight Killer and Armor Cutter definitely need to be changed to their localized counterparts.

My opinion about Wing Clipper though, is to stay the way it is. I mean, IMHO "Wingslayer" doesn't... have that... same "oomph" as the other ones. I guess try to come up with a different one?

Serlis and Celice were both considered "correct", because of the official website using Serlis, but the spelling of Celice is, as far as I can tell, the intended naming. I've seen the TCG cards online and am looking into buying them whenever possible, but the name used on those cards (for his cards) was Celice, rather than Serlis. Serlis is an understandable spelling based on the Japanese spelling before being put into romaji, but I guess Celice was just more popular with the fandom. I also prefer Celice.

The localization teams tend to... change names to whatever sometimes. Even if they do sometimes change based on some kind mythology, some names are unnecessary (i.e. Sety to Ced, totally ruining the Wind God Sety and Sety connection, and also the Fire God Fala and Fala Flame connection). As someone who is studying Japanese and translating things on my own time, it really does irk me to see the FE American localization team screwing a lot of these things up, and with no purpose to back it up. Perhaps some names have an excuse, but there is no excuse for messing up Sety and Fala imho. I won't even ask where they got Seliph from, considering Celice is a real name and was his original name.

I'm pretty critical about name changes, and I'm the type to stick to original names because that's the creators/authors/story writers intended for, so this is more on a personal level for me, but at the same time, as I do work on translating things and learn form other translators, I can tell when they just throw a name on uselessly. Fan translators do their best to get as close as possible to the original names, and when they mess up sometimes, I can understand that. If the names are a bit off from the actual Japanese spelling (like if it's given to us in romaji at some point), I can live with that. It's when English translations just don't even make an effort to stay as close as possible and change everything that I start getting very snappy about translations. The same goes for fan translators too though - if they just throw out some random name because they don't feel like translating the name, I don't respect that.

Tailto is actually Tiltyu's Japanese name as well, on that topic. Tiltyu seems to be the more popular spelling among the fandom/FE4 fandom. I also go with Tiltyu out of habit now, but I can live with Tailto knowing it's her actual name, in difference to how I feel about the English localizations (which to be entirely honest here, when I'm on personal messaging/IMs and all that, I don't hold back on how I view the English localizations. I'm a lot more... vocal, I guess(?), about my feelings toward that topic. I've also actually heard that in some localizations of Awakening, the names weren't even changed. Dunno if it's true, but that's what I heard). Teeny is Tinny's original Japanese name as well. Again, I prefer Tinny here, but that's more out of actual preference than habit.

-

Regarding the bastard/dastard thing, dastard is used in FE games and is perfectly fine. It basically just means a dishonorable person, and in the cases it's used in in FE4, I'd say it's fine to keep. I do have the original Japanese patch, but I haven't played it all the way through, so I can't be sure if anything along the lines of bastard was ever used. Dastard isn't a censorship thing to bastard though. Especially in the the whole, "ALVIS, YOU DASTARD" scene, considering to Sigurd, that was an act of betrayal, betrayal's pretty nasty and dishonorable. I'd go with dastard in this case, but bastard is other cases. I guess it really depends on context, because the two words don't mean the same thing, and I think a lot of people mistake them for being the same. At the least, out of people I know, I've actually never discussed this with any of them who actually knew dastard and bastard weren't the same. Ironically, the topic came up a couple of days ago in a group chat.

I'm still going to stick to the old patch - not anything against the patch creator here - but I have a level of comfort with the other patch, even though unfortunately the one I have is a permpatch, and it crashes the game during the ending as it goes over everyone's futures for their countries. If anyone could point out to me where I can find a non permpatch of the old patch, I'd super appreciate it (and I don't mind PMs of links or anything, because this topic isn't for that stuff and yadda yadda).

Regarding the inSANe aSS DEath QUOTe1!!, I actually kind of... like it. I guess I just get a better out of it? It feels dark and just seems to... fit? Idk, I'm crazy.

About this "ending freeze", is it the same one as the one I mentioned above? I've only READ that that's a permpatch problem, but there might be other solutions. The only version of the game I've used has always done this, so I've only seen the remainder of it from YouTube videos. I could just play the Japanese patch I have if I REALLY wanted to get through all that myself, which I might just do once or twice.

Anyway, yeah, that's my super late take/reply on this. By no means was anything said with the intention to offend localization fans. Those are just my views as someone who translates and studies Japanese, and I just have very strong feelings on the topic, so I apologize if it seemed to come off as anything it wasn't.

[Celice]

I agree with pretty much all of your thoughts, Tellius Defender. Thanks for sharing

[RJWalker]

Fala wasn't ruined. The tome is named Valflame. The person it is named after could easily be Vala instead of Fala for the localisation since Fala isn't mentioned anywhere in Awakening. Hence the connection still exists.

[Topazd]

I agree on most of the points (Sety -> Ced in particular) even if I don't have a huge problem with the majority of the localized names. To be fair, they didn't have much context whilst translating Sety/Fala and for the character names they did go for many names from Irish mythology, which was the case on a lot of the original names.

Out of habit, I'll probably never be able to use Helswath over Swanchika, though.

[Jugdral Defender]

Fala wasn't ruined. The tome is named Valflame. The person it is named after could easily be Vala instead of Fala for the localisation since Fala isn't mentioned anywhere in Awakening. Hence the connection still exists.

I don't use the main(?) FE wiki (main question a question mark because I use another wiki for FE tbh), but I've seen it still uses Fala for the Fire God. I think they'd end up localizing it as Val though, rather than Vala, because there's no second A in Valflame like there is for Fala Flame. Either way, I'm preferable to Fala and damn Fala's cute.

I agree on most of the points (Sety -> Ced in particular) even if I don't have a huge problem with the majority of the localized names. To be fair, they didn't have much context whilst translating Sety/Fala and for the character names they did go for many names from Irish mythology, which was the case on a lot of the original names.

Out of habit, I'll probably never be able to use Helswath over Swanchika, though.

I did also see that Holsety was named Forseti, so the Sety/Sety connection was totally left in the dust here. Considering generation 2 storyline purposes (i.e. Levin), I'm kinda like... ugh about that. I feel like a lot of things were changed that shouldn't have even been touched.

They didn't have context, which is why I always feel that they should've left things alone. FE4 is too old of a game to ever get an English release without a remake, and there's no guarantee it'd even make it overseas even if it did get a remake (like what happened to FE12). I know they did some mythology stuff like they usually do with FE localizations. I just always believe if that mythology wasn't the intention of the creator that it simply has no purpose there. I'm probably really stiff with this stuff, but I know if I was an author or making a storyline and I thought of a ton of names and gave thought to the meanings behind them, I'd be a lot more than pissed off to see another country changing the names for... whatever reason.

I did actually get really confused at first when localization names started popping up. I didn't buy Awakening right when it came out (in fact I actually ended up getting it in late 2014), and there were a lot of names that confused me as to who/what the name belonged to. I'm just one of those people who would say "if it's not broken, don't try to fix it". Plus since FE4's been out for almost twenty years and the old translation patches also have a good handful of years on them, it's pretty difficult for me (plus with FE Treasure and all that stuff coming out during all that time).

Again, not trying to sound mean, but I'm just trying to get discussion in. >.<

_{I'm sorry I'm awkward about this; I'm just used to people hating on people who stick to the non-(American)localized names and think of us as like... uptight jerks or something and this is the first time I've ever actually discussed this public (but I'm happy to know you agree for the most part on that post!).}

I agree with pretty much all of your thoughts, Tellius Defender. Thanks for sharing

You're welcome~. I'm pretty much Jugdral crazed and FE4 crazy, so I tend to get pretty in depth in conversation about it... I'm glad when people take the time to read it all and enjoy it. <3

Edited February 17, 2015 by Tellius Defender

[RedEyedDrake]

I'd like to point out that, at least according to wikipedia, "vala" is what the norse "volva", which is the word the crusader's name is supposedly derived from, most commonly anglicized as. Considering this and the name "valflame" would going with "Val" really be more appropriate than "Vala" or maybe (though probably less preferable because of the aformentioned anglicisation) even "Valva".

As for the whole "sety" thing, why not have the crusader be named "Ced", exactly like the gen 2 character? Their names are supposed to be identical, aren't they? Also, the name "Ced" is not completly unrelated to "ForSETi" either.

Edited February 18, 2015 by RedEyedDrake

[buttmuncher.ops]

I tried again a few times, my emulator keeps saying that it has a bad checksum. What emulator are you using?

you're in luck that i only read last pages of long topics.

the most common clean japanese ROM you will find is 4096 kb and headerless, but the patch requires a headered ROM. a headered + Lunar'd patched ROM will end up being 4097 kb and run on any emulator (i'm playing the current patch on zSNES 1.51) i recommend using NSRT (Nach's SNES ROM Tools) to scan and see what type you have, and if you need to fix/add a header etc. it's a very user-friendly utility. if a ROM is hard patched, it will always say bad checksum, so don't worry about that; if that shows up with a soft patch it might be a bad ROM so try the fix errors command in NSRT and see if that removes the error message.

applying the patch to a headered ROM has been the norm since twil came back to make his changes, but it seems gharnef forgot to mention this fact in his op for his patch. he'll probably add it in the instructions once the patch is 100%

i've been away for awhile, so i apologize in advance if this has been brought up since it's obvious the Skill page has been worked on. are the inconsistencies between the left list column and right information tab for the Greatshield / Duel skills working as intended? i understand the shortening of the infantry sword skills between the left and the right, but i'd like the reason behind these two since i've been out of the loop for so long.

[spoiler=naughtypicturesincluded]

Edited February 20, 2015 by buttmuncher.ops

[lonelyVoxel]

Serlis and Celice were both considered "correct", because of the official website using Serlis, but the spelling of Celice is, as far as I can tell, the intended naming. I've seen the TCG cards online and am looking into buying them whenever possible, but the name used on those cards (for his cards) was Celice, rather than Serlis. Serlis is an understandable spelling based on the Japanese spelling before being put into romaji, but I guess Celice was just more popular with the fandom. I also prefer Celice.

I feel like Celice looks and sounds better than Serlis, so I'm gonna join that team.

By the way, is Cuan or Quan more correct?

you're in luck that i only read last pages of long topics.

the most common clean japanese ROM you will find is 4096 kb and headerless, but the patch requires a headered ROM. a headered + Lunar'd patched ROM will end up being 4097 kb and run on any emulator (i'm playing the current patch on zSNES 1.51) i recommend using NSRT (Nach's SNES ROM Tools) to scan and see what type you have, and if you need to fix/add a header etc. it's a very user-friendly utility. if a ROM is hard patched, it will always say bad checksum, so don't worry about that; if that shows up with a soft patch it might be a bad ROM so try the fix errors command in NSRT and see if that removes the error message.

applying the patch to a headered ROM has been the norm since twil came back to make his changes, but it seems gharnef forgot to mention this fact in his op for his patch. he'll probably add it in the instructions once the patch is 100%

I already figured out what I was doing wrong. Thanks anyway!

[RedEyedDrake]

I figure that the official versions of the characters' names are the most correct ones. Because, you know, that is what the characters will be known as in any further appearences and allusions to them in the franchise. No need to create confusion where it isn't necessary.

Edited February 23, 2015 by RedEyedDrake

[lonelyVoxel]

The Cuan vs. Quan thing for me is a problem of linguistics. In Spanish, my second language, cua is preferred over qua, but it's the other way around in English. Depending on the origin of C/Quan's name, one is more correct than the other.

[RedEyedDrake]

As the wiki helpfully points out, Quan's name is most likely meant to be a corruption of the name "Cian", who was a figure in Irish mythology.

However, the point is that it doesn't matter which one is more correct from a linguistic point. Any further mention of said character in the franchise will most likely have him go by the name of "Quan". As such, that is the "most correct" version of his name, regardless of linguistics. Sure, the franchise might reach a hypothetical future point where he gets refered to by some other name in future installments. However, any mention of him before that point, if such is made, will refer to him as "Quan" since that is what his name was most recently localized as.

[lonelyVoxel]

As the wiki helpfully points out, Quan's name is most likely meant to be a corruption of the name "Cian", who was a figure in Irish mythology.

However, the point is that it doesn't matter which one is more correct from a linguistic point. Any further mention of said character in the franchise will most likely have him go by the name of "Quan". As such, that is the "most correct" version of his name, regardless of linguistics. Sure, the franchise might reach a hypothetical future point where he gets refered to by some other name in future installments. However, any mention of him before that point, if such is made, will refer to him as "Quan" since that is what his name was most recently localized as.

In this case I would have to look at things in Irish to see if they use cua or qua more often.

I get that it's not very important, but things can get re-localized and re-re-localized. Aerith from Final Fantasy VII was originally translated as Aeris. Plus, I sometimes use spellings I like better in my head and in things that are also of trivial importance.

Edited February 23, 2015 by Forceman

[RedEyedDrake]

Oh. I thought we were discussing what would make for a better final version of the patch. Alright then, my bad.

[Celice]

I figure that the official versions of the characters' names are the most correct ones. Because, you know, that is what the characters will be known as in any further appearences and allusions to them in the franchise. No need to create confusion where it isn't necessary.

The issues comes in two places:

1) It's not uncommon for the FE series to be given "official" names on merchandise or other media and then to have another "official" name in the future. Some characters have had 3-7 different official names over the past 25 years in licensed products.

2) Whose "official" name is better? Is it fair to assume the NoA renaming and rewrites is the one everyone should abide from when NoE version may be different, and NoJ too? The French and German and Spanish scripts having their own naming conventions? It becomes very arbitrary to merely choose one over the other while still clinging to "official" as justification.

What avoids both problems is to use what is actually written in the game at time of its release. So many recent fans want to smudge their fingers in pies just for the sake of it.

[Czar_Yoshi]

In this case I would have to look at things in Irish to see if they use cua or qua more often.

Don't quote me on this, but I don't believe there are any Q's in Irish.

[RedEyedDrake]

Shouldn't appearence and mention in a mainline game and/or the most recent appearence override anything else?

Also, since the patch is in English then it only appropriate to use the English names, of course. And any versions of the patch that might come into being in the future and are in a language that uses different names would use those names instead. As for differences in localizations in the same language that might come up, why not create several versions of the patch in said language for the various zones? It would only take a comperatively small amount of work to do so, wouldn't it? Of course, I'm not saying that anyone is obligated to do any of that. A singular patch creator would be free to stick to their native languge and zone, since that is what would probably be simplest for them.

And to both awnser the question and summarize, "(name)'s most recent official (zone) name, granted by the localization team of IS' (zone) division, is (name)'s one and only name in (zone) until any point the future where a new one might be granted by the localization team of the time" seems like the obvious awnser here.

And sticking to "what is actually written in the game at the time of the game's release" creates a new problem simply because the names used in Japan apply to Japan only. The various fan translations were in use simply because a local version did not exist. Now that they do, for every zone where the game from which the non-Japanese versions came from was localized, it means that each zone's localization team has reached a consensus on the subject. And intentionally creating a split in said concensus seems counter intuitive. I mean, further use of the names in any zone that currently has an established consensus on them is highly likely to involve the use of this established concensus. So what purpose is there to the act of intentionally creating several names, all of which would most likely end up as more or less simultaneous use within a given zone's fanbase, for the same region?

Edited February 23, 2015 by RedEyedDrake

[lonelyVoxel]

Don't quote me on this, but I don't believe there are any Q's in Irish.

I'm quoting you =P

I believe that Q is mostly used only in Latin-based languages and spellings of foreign words, so I'd think the same.

[buttmuncher.ops]

is it just me or does it feel weird to get into the unit menu and see a bunch of "dukeknt" "lanceknt" "axeknt" "greatknt" and then "kntlord" out of nowhere

[lonelyVoxel]

is it just me or does it feel weird to get into the unit menu and see a bunch of "dukeknt" "lanceknt" "axeknt" "greatknt" and then "kntlord" out of nowhere

Not to me, though I associate abbreviations with full words easily.

[Cereal Bawks]

Does this patch work with mobile emulators? I'm using Snes9x EX+ for my Android, but it doesn't seem to be working. Not sure if I'm doing something wrong or if it just doesn't work with this emulator.

EDIT: Nevermind, got some help.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Cereal Bawks

[Robertboybobo]

Question: How much is completed?

[lonelyVoxel]

I've noticed a few things in the script that bother me in this translation, all modern phrases like "Yeah" and "What's up?" I'd be alright with it if it was just one character, Sigurd does say a bit of these things, but once I saw the text in the attached image I really had to ask about it. Why was it chosen to add modern phrases and words like these? I feel like it takes away from the setting, since if I were to travel back in time and have a noble greet me with "What's up?" I'd be taken by surprise.

[RJWalker]

Question: How much is completed?

This patch is identical to the older patch except it uses Awakening localisations as well as a few other changes. However, this is a dead end.

[NoNameAtAll]

This patch is identical to the older patch except it uses Awakening localisations as well as a few other changes. However, this is a dead end.

Well, Awakening's localizations where applicable. Otherwise, it looks like in some cases, the literal Japanese names are used (Ex: Ferry.)