The Void Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 In the games with Marth, you encountered dragons through the games. There was even a manakete kingdom. In Awakening though, the only dragons you encounter that aren't wyverns are Tiki, Nowi, Nah, Morgan, Naga, and Grima itself. Even though Grima is descended from the Earth Dragons, it's never shown working with or controlling any other dragons in the Bad Future besides Morgan. With Grima's ties to the Earth Dragons and the undead, you'd think there'd at least be Dracozombies if not any manaketes. And besides that, the game really has a much smaller presence of dragons compared to previous games in this setting. So what, was there some sort of manakete genocide after Mystery/New Mystery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 I believe that the most popular theory is that Grima is all the Earth Dragons sealed in the Dragon's Altar merged together, which both explains why there aren't any other Earth Dragons and why Grima is so immensely powerful, and hateful (Medeus and Loptyr "merely" wanted to rule the world, not end it). Better explanation here. OK, and after a bit of digging, this is the first post suggesting such a theory that I've found, but there could easily be earlier posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentASM Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 I figured there weren't many Manaketes to begin with after humanity oppressed them. So they were likely all but wiped out following the two Dolhrian invasions. The ones who survived or didn't join Dolhr are (or were) probably living in secrecy somewhere. As for the feral dragons, I wouldn't be surprised if they were slaughtered to make room for Feroxi territority. At that point, the ferals probably can't breed anymore, so their numbers would slowly dwindle too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 (edited) I think there might probably be still around. We don't actually get to see some of the places where the Manakete clans dwell (that desert in Mystery's Ch11, the lava caves of Ch12, and the frozen lands near the Ice Dragon Shrine of Ch13, Ch13x, and Ch14, etc), or at least I think they are. I don't think much was revealed about those humans other than they kept the feral dragons as "pets", or so explained Xane. Hmm, time to recheck the script... Anyway, granted, the change in topography may mean those places may no longer exist or be suitable for them anymore, but if they are, they probably just live secluded and stuff. Edited May 16, 2013 by Acacia Sgt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Void Posted May 16, 2013 Author Share Posted May 16, 2013 But where were the Dracozombies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 I believe that the most popular theory is that Grima is all the Earth Dragons sealed in the Dragon's Altar merged together, which both explains why there aren't any other Earth Dragons and why Grima is so immensely powerful, and hateful (Medeus and Loptyr "merely" wanted to rule the world, not end it). Better explanation here. OK, and after a bit of digging, this is the first post suggesting such a theory that I've found, but there could easily be earlier posts. There were other Feral Dragons besides the Earth Dragons and their companions in Dragon's Altars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) There were other Feral Dragons besides the Earth Dragons and their companions in Dragon's Altars. Except that only the Earth Dragons were sealed within the Altar, as it was stated several times in dialogue. The other dragons are there because the Altar is in Doluna, which is the "Land of the Manaketes" after all, so it was bound to have it's share of feral ones as well. Edited May 17, 2013 by Acacia Sgt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Except that only the Earth Dragons were sealed within the Altar, as it was stated several times in dialogue. The other dragons are there because the Altar is in Doluna, which is the "Land of the Manaketes" after all, so it was bound to have it's share of feral ones as well. In the remake, other Dragons pop out of the altar as well to add some variety. Anyway, the my point was the Earth Dragons were hardly the only Feral Dragon Type out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ϲharlie Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 But where were the Dracozombies?Maybe Grima didn't like the idea of defiling its own kind in such a way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 In the remake, other Dragons pop out of the altar as well to add some variety. Anyway, the my point was the Earth Dragons were hardly the only Feral Dragon Type out there. I know of that, in fact, it's the same on the original game. Either way, doesn't change the fact it was still only the Earth Dragons that were sealed. Notice how the Fire Emblem only repels/vanishes/what-have-you the Earth Dragons, and only them. Yes, there are other types of dragons wandering around the building, but it's still only the Earth Dragons that were sealed up, which is the basis of that merging theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Sage Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Why is Grima even sentient to begin with? IIRC, all the Earth Dragons except Medeus and Loptyr went feral, Medeus because he actually did seal his power in a dragonstone and Loptyr because by that point he possessed Galle and lost his dragon body (so he had no need to seal his power in a dragonstone and had no risk of going wild). I'm also curious on why the spheres are separated from the Fire Emblem when Mystery basically said that keeping them apart is a bad thing, as doing so weakens the seal on the Earth Dragons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 I know of that, in fact, it's the same on the original game. Either way, doesn't change the fact it was still only the Earth Dragons that were sealed. Notice how the Fire Emblem only repels/vanishes/what-have-you the Earth Dragons, and only them. Yes, there are other types of dragons wandering around the building, but it's still only the Earth Dragons that were sealed up, which is the basis of that merging theory. While there were Dragons in the Shrine in the Original Mystery, they're only pop out of the seal in the remake. In the original version of the chapter, Medeus and the feral Earth Dragons are the only enemies at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 While there were Dragons in the Shrine in the Original Mystery, they're only pop out of the seal in the remake. In the original version of the chapter, Medeus and the feral Earth Dragons are the only enemies at that point. Interesting. Either way, dialogue in New Mystery still states only the Earth Dragons are sealed within the Table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Void Posted May 17, 2013 Author Share Posted May 17, 2013 Why is Grima even sentient to begin with? IIRC, all the Earth Dragons except Medeus and Loptyr went feral, Medeus because he actually did seal his power in a dragonstone and Loptyr because by that point he possessed Galle and lost his dragon body (so he had no need to seal his power in a dragonstone and had no risk of going wild). 1. Medeus was among the sealed Earth Dragons. Coming from a fusion that might account for Grima's behavior. 2. Robin is the second coming of Grima. And she can talk, etc. We never see Grima talk without Robin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Sage Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 1. Medeus was among the sealed Earth Dragons. Coming from a fusion that might account for Grima's behavior. Medeus got killed at the end of Mystery though so it's not really a valid explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Void Posted May 17, 2013 Author Share Posted May 17, 2013 Medeus said this:"SHOULD THIS ACCURSED SHIELD BE LOST, WE SHALL RISE FROM THE DEPTHS OF HELL"He says "WE", counting himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euklyd Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) Medeus got killed at the end of Mystery though so it's not really a valid explanation....for some value of "killed." According to the fireemblem.wikia.com Medeus was also killed by Marth in Shadow Dragon, only to be revived by Gharnef. "However, Marth killed him before he could do anything further."And, "Medeus is known for (repeatedly) claiming that he can always return as long as there is evil in humans' hearts." To drive home the point, this is what he says when you "kill" him in New Mystery:[spoiler=Death quote](Defeating Medeus)Medeus:GWAH...! WHY......? WHY... HAVE I... BEEN DEFEATED... SO EASILY...? IS THIS... THE POWER... ...OF NAGA'S... BINDING SHIELD...? KNOW THIS, HUMANS... THIS LIGHT IS ONLY A BRIEF RESPITE... SO LONG AS EVIL LURKS WITHIN THE HEARTS OF MAN... SHOULD THIS ACCURSED SHIELD BE LOST, WE SHALL RISE FROM THE DEPTHS OF HELL... DO NOT... EVER FORGET...[emphasis added]EDIT: Ninja'd. This is the full quote, though. Why is Grima even sentient to begin with? IIRC, all the Earth Dragons except Medeus and Loptyr went feral, Medeus because he actually did seal his power in a dragonstone and Loptyr because by that point he possessed Galle and lost his dragon body (so he had no need to seal his power in a dragonstone and had no risk of going wild).If I recall correctly, the possession of Galle (and the possibility of possessing his descendants) was because he and Loptyr blood-bonded. The 12 Crusaders did the same blood rites with 12 other dragons during the Miracle of Darna, which also resulted in them and their descendants possessing a mark/brand (if Major Blooded). Which sounds remarkably similar to all the talk in Awakening about Avatar (and maybe Chrom as well, I can't remember) having the blood of their patron dragons, as well as the Brand of the Exalt/Grima.And the Falchion only being able to be wielded by select members of the Exalted bloodline is just like the Holy Weapons in FE4 only being able to be wielded by those with the right Major Blood.I think it's a perfectly reasonable assumption that Grima blood-bonded with one of Validar's ancestors, and that Naga did the same with the First Exalt.Also, just as Loptyr was able to possess Galle and Julius, Forseti was able to "possess" Lewyn as well, and I've read that the developer notes for FE4 say something about Naga imparting her will to Heim as a result of the blood-bonding as well.This is mostly just trivia, though. Edited May 17, 2013 by Euklyd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Hardin Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Maybe the next Ylisse game will involve the other dragon tribes seeking revenge against humanity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Void Posted May 17, 2013 Author Share Posted May 17, 2013 Grima also doesn't talk without Robin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuffPuff Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 (Medeus and Loptyr "merely" wanted to rule the world, not end it). Loputo didn't want to rule the world. He actually protected it from Galle's wrath for a long time till Medeus possessed him which Loputo possessed Julius. Julius was easily controlled, cuz he had full Loptous blood. I don't think much was revealed about those humans other than they kept the feral dragons as "pets", or so explained Xane. Who is Xane, really? Always wanted to wonder that for a long time! Could he be a messesnger of the dragonkin?! ^_~ He says at first that he came from a tribe that the others are like him, can transform into whatever he/she sees and then he says that he is from the Divine Dragonkin that he actually lost the ability to transform after Gato got rid of the stone. ...for some value of "killed." According to the fireemblem.wikia.com Medeus was also killed by Marth in Shadow Dragon, only to be revived by Gharnef. "However, Marth killed him before he could do anything further." And, "Medeus is known for (repeatedly) claiming that he can always return as long as there is evil in humans' hearts." To drive home the point, this is what he says when you "kill" him in New Mystery: [spoiler=Death quote](Defeating Medeus) Medeus: GWAH...! WHY......? WHY... HAVE I... BEEN DEFEATED... SO EASILY...? IS THIS... THE POWER... ...OF NAGA'S... BINDING SHIELD...? KNOW THIS, HUMANS... THIS LIGHT IS ONLY A BRIEF RESPITE... SO LONG AS EVIL LURKS WITHIN THE HEARTS OF MAN... SHOULD THIS ACCURSED SHIELD BE LOST, WE SHALL RISE FROM THE DEPTHS OF HELL... DO NOT... EVER FORGET... [emphasis added] EDIT: Ninja'd. This is the full quote, though. Yep. He could do it at anytime without Gharnef's help. Also, just as Loptyr was able to possess Galle and Julius So, Galle was possessed. it was never mentioned in the FE4 timeline. So, Loptuous was the worlds protector for a long time till Medeus changed that. Forseti was able to "possess" Lewyn as well Which explains why he ignored his wife, Fury's pleas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Void Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 (edited) Galle is to Loptyr as the Exdeath is to the Void. Same goes for Julius. Grima is to Robin as the Void is to Exdeath. Really. Play Final Fantasy V. Edited May 18, 2013 by The Void Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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