The Galeforce Thread

[Chiki]

We've had so many Galeforce threads that I think it's time for us to make an official thread based on it now.

I think Galeforce has caused the community to split into two. The people who are good at the game are the ones who can see the diversity of the skill regardless of how they play.

Uses of Galeforce

LTC

1. The most obvious--it shaves turns. It allows you to move twice per turn, and 3 times if you're paired up with someone. That means reaching rout areas more quickly, and reaching bosses.

2. Saves money by making Rescue staves less necessary in LTC runs.

Other

3. Allows you to kill a strong unit in TSON and flee. This is even a very effective tactic in real life, known as guerilla warfare, which Wikipedia defines as surprising the enemy and fleeing. Is it not useful to use units which the enemy cannot kill?

4. Allows you to get extra exp on the player phase, which can even function as a pseudo-Veteran for the unit in question.

5. Allows you to save a unit, such as a flier, from getting killed by killing an archer. There are many potential examples of this.

6. Allows you to reach a thief who is opening chests and running away.

7. For healing and retreating.

8. For killing and then using a staff on someone.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Olwen

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

The only reason why Sumia is the only unit who come pretty close in being better than Avatar IMO

And the difference beetwen good support unit and great support unit

[Meteor]

Galeforce is easily one of the best skills in the game, but the opportunity cost to get it is extremely high for a leisurely/no grind playthrough. The reason people say it's overhyped is because it's not necessary at all in such a playstyle, and anyone who isn't Avatar/Sumia/Cordelia or their children will usually have to make some awful reclass choices to get it (usually hurting the team until it's aquired).

In threads where people ask which marriages to make, with the intention of recruiting every child, I think it's fair to assume the asker is willing to grind for skills and supports unless they specifically ask otherwise. So I do find it a little surprising people like to bash Galeforce in those topics. Access to it is pretty limited comared to other skills like Luna, and telling people to ignore Galeforce when choosing marriages because it's "overrated" is a pretty terrible reason.

[Renall]

Here's a good one: Staff user with Galeforce (Valkyrie/Falcon Knight generally) can kill a unit and still use a staff. Normally you trade combat for healing or Rescue or whatever, but not with Galeforce!

Plus you can double-move and Rescue, which is amazing for things like killing the boss on Cynthia's paralogue on the first turn and laughing as it breaks the intended scripting, or instawarping Chrom to the final boss, or just generally slingshotting people around the map like you got an appointment to make.

Also you can go in, kill, Galeforce, go back, and Rescue somebody who doesn't have Galeforce, meaning you just used two units to kill two enemies and have both units retreat... with one use of Galeforce.

That's not even taking into account the partner also having it.

[Baldrick]

You need to be level 15 promoted to unlock it, and it only works if you kill the enemy, right? It seems to me the more you need it, the less likely it is to activate.

[Chiki]

One can get Galeforce midgame with the right motivation, even in LTC playthroughs.

[shadowofchaos]

I think Galeforce has caused the community to split into two: the people who are good at the game, and the people who are not. The people who are good at the game understand its incredible uses, whereas the people who aren't good just think it's an overrated skill because they like to make their units as strong in combat as possible.

Galeforce is easily one of the best skills in the game, but the opportunity cost to get it is extremely high for a leisurely/no grind playthrough.

One can get Galeforce midgame with the right motivation, even in LTC playthroughs.

Obviously the main motivation of the skill is it allows so many possibilities in beating the chapter for the purposes of efficiency.

It's a great skill. Totally. No one's disputing that.

If you're into the game for the story, even if you are at a decent skill level, it's not really something that is NECESSARY to be factored into your strategy. One of the reasons the community is split is: "oh man you didn't pass Galeforce to your male kid you suck".

Those who are "good at the game" tend to look down on those who simply don't care about it enough.

I can't count how many times, even on the Japanese side of the internet, PASS ON SHIPPUJINRAI (Galeforce) is said. Repeatedly.

Story-goers like me didn't care much, even though I was aware of it during the Japanese release. Now that I have played enough for the story and support conversations, I have tried passing it on to the Males because it *IS* the most useful Female-only skill unless you're going for a specific setup, like with Lancefaire or something.

But when you say "people who aren't good think it's an overrated skill", THAT is what turns off a lot of people.

"You don't like it so you suck/I am mightier than thou" is pretty much implied there.

Edited May 21, 2013 by shadowofchaos

[Chiki]

But when you say "people who aren't good think it's an overrated skill", THAT is what turns off a lot of people.

"You don't like it so you suck/I am mightier than thou" is pretty much implied there.

Being better at a game does not make me better than anyone. It seems to me like a simple fact that the drafters and efficiency players all fap to Galeforce whereas the others who don't play the game like that don't.

[Da Bear]

Just so that everyone understands.

Olwen thinks that the only way to be good at this game is LTCing. So since Galeforce is the best for LTCing it's the best overall for him.

The problem is realizing others don't believe that...

[Chiki]

Just so that everyone understands.

Olwen thinks that the only way to be good at this game is LTCing. So since Galeforce is the best for LTCing it's the best overall for him.

The problem is realizing others don't believe that...

Thank you for summing up my point of view.

[Mighty Kamina]

Yes, Galeforce is a very good skill (especially for LTC), but it's not needed to make a good team or to be good at the game.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Zelos

[Junkhead]

The people who are good at the game understand its incredible uses, whereas the people who aren't good just think it's an overrated skill because they like to make their units as strong in combat as possible.

Isn't it kind of the other way around, with casuals hyping and making it seem overrated by just saying "this gaem is so easy lawl i just use my galefarce team and win"? "Efficient" and LTC-players very well understand it's potential, yeah.

2. Saves money by making Rescue staves less necessary in LTC runs.

I don't think that matters very much. It's pretty feasible to get an optimal turncount with 1-2 Deliverer users anad 2 Rescue staves.

You get those two Rescue staves for free, by the way.

Allows you to kill a strong unit in TSON and flee. This is even a very effective tactic in real life, known as guerilla warfare, which Wikipedia defines as surprising the enemy and fleeing.

It's an interesting little fact, but a little irrelevant to a video game's topic, lol. x)

[Da Bear]

Thank you for summing up my point of view.

Everyone else didn't seem to have it figured out.

[Renall]

Yes, Galeforce is a very good skill (especially for LTC), but it's not needed to make a good team or to be good at the game.

I would argue that a good team should include Galeforce striker pairings, assuming by "a good team" we mean "a team capable of beating TSON handily" as that's the only time something like "team makeup" honestly makes the slightest bit of difference. Outside those parameters any team that has okay weapons and skill setup is a "good team," which dilutes the meaning of the phrase (as that's not exactly hard to do).

Could you build a team that wins without it? Sure. Should your team be comprised entirely of characters who have learned and equipped it? Of course not; you need/want people who fill other roles that don't derive benefit from the skill. Should your team have a fair number of people who do have it? Yes, for crying out loud, it should!

But... understand what those units are for, and what the non-Galeforce units are for. Your tank is your armor/infantry, absorbing hits and drawing things in. Your support is artillery (although in some cases it's artillery that heals people) and logistics (in the form of buffs/dancing/whatever). And the Galeforce units are your air support, penetrating to do tons of damage and withdrawing and/or smashing high-value targets (things that would threaten the tank if allowed an Enemy Phase) in quick succession. Lots of skills support each role, most of them have very little overlap, and they should all be structured appropriately. You wouldn't put Aggressor on your Enemy Phase damage sponge if he's never going to use it. Likewise you wouldn't put Galeforce on him if his goal is to stand in one spot and draw stuff in.

Neither of those things makes Galeforce+Aggressor useless or "overrated." Try them together on an offense unit and you'll see clearly just how crazy it really is. But that's for an offense unit that goes in hard and slips back out unscathed. That's its role, and unlike a lot of skills Galeforce is really not optional to maximize that unit's potential. By contrast, there's a lot of ways to tank. That's what makes Galeforce such an important and interesting skill. It has essentially no analogue outside of Olivia, and Olivia doesn't produce equivalent turn advantage since she trades her turn for somebody else's where a Galeforce user just materializes a free turn out of nowhere when they win a fight.

It's not equivalent to a damage skill, although if we compared it as such it's the best damage skill in the game when there are two targets in range since nothing else deals double damage while stacking with procs (which are the only thing that will get you close to dealing double damage). And it has non-damage utility.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

What is amusing from the Galeforce hype is the whole 3 Turn thing

If theres one thing that I can praise from the OP, its the fact that it lacks any mention of 3 Turns w/2 Galeforce unit

[Chiki]

What is amusing from the Galeforce hype is the whole 3 Turn thing

If theres one thing that I can praise from the OP, its the fact that it lacks any mention of 3 Turns w/2 Galeforce unit

Huh? I don't understand your post.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

The first thing that you can see from Galeforce hype machine is the mention on how you can stack 2 Galeforce and move thrice

Obviously this is actually not practical

1. In the context of min maxing, that nobody give a damn around here, Galeforce is amazing to set up someone who does not have Galeforce. This is largely why Galeforce is the best support skill. I say, the Galeforce user actually benefit more by having DG+ on their skillset and paired with someone who did not have Galeforce as a killing transporter

2. In the context of efficiency(say HM), only 3 units can be expected to get Galeforce on reasonable time frame or expectations. Fe MU, Sumia, Cordelia. Because if you think Lissa and Maribelle can like.... 10 > Sage > 10 > Dark Flier > Galeforce. Your nuts.

Cynthia simply comes underlevelled unless you do some magical hax to recruit her packed with Galeforce

Severa is a merc, and thus is not as useful pre-reclassing and has annoying Paralogue.

The last is Morgan, who usually comes as Chrom's Son. You can maybe reclass him instantly into Wyvern Rider and have him help around. Comes Griffon Rider and yo get overkill 10 Mov Galeforce

So, basically the idea of having 2 Galeforce unit stacked together is inefficient unless you are basing your team on that route

Edited May 21, 2013 by JSND

[Deshiva]

Huh? I don't understand your post.

I think he missed some parts of your first post

[Chiki]

Obviously not practical? Lol. I used it to great effect in my 33 turn playthrough, for example, in chapter 17. Anyway, in an LTC playthrough, you can train the Avatar and Sumia to do it.

I did mention it here:

and 3 times if you're paired up with someone.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Olwen

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Thats using like..... 99999 gold and Logbook. I forgot about those >_>

Eh already 1:00 am need sleep etc

Edited May 21, 2013 by JSND

[shadykid]

What is amusing from the Galeforce hype is the whole 3 Turn thing

If theres one thing that I can praise from the OP, its the fact that it lacks any mention of 3 Turns w/2 Galeforce unit

it's quite useful in LTC, stop dodging

[Florete]

What if I understand its incredible uses and still think it's overrated? What does that make me?

It's a broken skill, no doubt about that. All the advantages listed in the OP are completely true, and I wouldn't be surprised to see more. But its impracticality in a casual, 10-12 unit-team run makes all the people who act like everything in the game should revolve around the skill extremely annoying. When I'm just playing for fun, my style makes it so that non-Avatar units typically won't reach --/15 until pretty late and if I'm using a Pegasus I prefer Falcon Knight because it is outright statistically better than Dark Flier and Rally Speed is usually better than Rally Movement.

But when it comes to Galeforce it's like nothing else exists to some people and those who don't care for it automatically just suck at the game.

I've always said that "It's not needed" is a terrible argument against anything, but some people go so far with Galeforce that you just might need to say that sometimes.

[Chiki]

Why should we care about people playing for fun, though? That sets no standards to measure any skill or character.

It's fun to see Tharja half-naked when she fights, but why does that matter?

[Florete]

Why should we care about people playing for fun, though? That sets no standards to measure any skill or character.

You're not serious, are you? Tell me you're not being serious.

[Chiki]

I don't see your argument, but there's nothing wrong with playing for fun.

But does playing for fun allow us to say what's good or bad? Tier lists, for example, don't concern with what's fun. They concern with what's efficient.

Does playing for fun allow us to set standards in which we can measure that something is good or bad? Does it concern us?