Following rules and law out of own interest?

[Junkhead]

Hey.

I am looking for a good reason for someone to follow the rules (in this case, the very small ones that "hardly matter")...personally, I've usually been kind of tame and obedient during my teen age. But, the thing is, we're usually taught and made believe that you're a "good person" if you're obedient and follow the rules...at least when you're very young, and still don't have much sense of etics developed.

And yeah, the point is, I want to know what a good logical explanation would be behind the desire to want to follow these out of one's own interest. In my case, I think I am doing something "honorable" or "virtuous"- And yeah, I do know that may very well sound flawed, and I don't expect it to not be.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Soul

[Steampunk]

Because fines and prison suck. People who don't obey laws tend to experience one or the other. Also, in the US, some employers won't hire people with domestic violence or felonies on their criminal record. I'm sure there are other problems that arise from an extensive criminal record. I think most renters/apartments perform background checks. I also think it can impact your ability to take out loans (but don't quote me on that).

Basically, ignoring laws can screw you in many ways. Most people don't like being screwed in many ways and obey laws to avoid that.

[Junkhead]

I am talking about minimal laws, thoughs. Ones that won't affect those kind of things or get you a penalty of fine...things one could considering irrelevant and just not worth following.

Like crossing the street when the lights are green even though there are no cars around. FOR EXAMPLE.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Soul

[deleted35362]

I guess some people are more paranoid than others.

[Da Bear]

Because I'm paranoid.

...Are you having a moral crisis Soul?

[Hawk King]

Are you talking about stuff like saying please and thank you? Basically manners?

If you want respect from people you need to show them you have respect. In order to do that I think you need to follow the rules for the "little things" which you were refering to.

If you dont mind being hated by everyone and generally unsuccessful in life, then you can ignore these "rules" you speak of.

[Green Poet]

I am talking about minimal laws, thoughs. Ones that won't affect those kind of things or get you a penalty of fine...things one could considering irrelevant and just not worth following.

Like crossing the street when the lights are green even though there are no cars around. FOR EXAMPLE.

In a case like that, where it's not even jaywalking, I'd do the same. I consider myself to have a fair amount of integrity, but there's really no point in standing around waiting for the light when you're certain a car isn't going to be approaching. :P

[Guy Starwind]

Because I'm Lawful Good.

[Knife]

Rules are meant to be broken

[Junkhead]

I just got reminded of how Socrates died in a stance in which he was defending the law in the way that he wouldn't dare go against it even if it meant dying.

[Phoenix Wright]

Laws aren't the outline for my morals, plain and simple. Laws that are useless or unjust are laws that I ignore. Unless der's coppas around. I don't need no stinkin' trouble from de coppas.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Phoenix Wright

[BluBlaDe]

There aren't that many good reasons to follow the rules.

Sometimes people get punished for not following them others times they get rewarded.

Like someone that get in front of you in the waiting line. If you tell him/them to fuck off at the end of the line and they don't do it then what will happen?

Being honorable and virtuous does not means anything anymore, nodoby really cares if you are. When was the last time someone told you you were really honorable/virtuous? It's actually bad since if people feels like you are like that they'll try to use you. After all being honorable is also being predictable.

I don't break the rules but it clearly is people that break them that get better than others in life.

Men that uses steroids are physically stronger than non-user and can reach the top of the social ladder more easily.

Same with people who uses all kind of drugs.

People that uses modafinil/provigirl/nootropics drugs will be able to work harder/longer to get farther in life

[LunaSaint]

Because I'm lawful stupid, and because I'm paranoid. I awknowledge this, and I'm okay with it.

It's not always the optimal choice. But it sure as hell keeps things clean, simple and quiet.

Even then there are a handful of exceptions. Crossing streets is a great example.

[Life]

We were talking about this a couple days ago.

Essentially, there are thre reasons to follow rules:

1) Fear of the punishment.

2) Looking to please others and be a personal example.

3) Understanding and agreeing with the law in question.

[SRC]

Generally speaking, being a jerk will alienate a person from others. Being good to others is can be its own psychological reward, which is increased when people are virtuous in return. Rules and laws are a nice safety net, but unless a person is particularly desperate or opportunistic, he or she generally won't, say, just steal valuables from others.

[Original Alear]

I don't really put a lot of stock into rules and laws, and yet I put a lot of stock into them. There are so many different sets of rules and laws in different categories that I (suspect) that most people can't function effectively or productively simply by avoiding crossing the negative ones. If I'm not wrong, looking back on my life I ultimately have no clear relation or attachment to the rules and laws functioning as an expression of an ideal way of life. I can't even say that I always try and avoid being caught, though I often went through perfunctory measures to do so, I didn't always.

Of course, following positive rules or laws (you might think of these as "how to's") to do good things might be effective.

One other nice thing about rules is that if you understand them, perhaps they can be a bit easy on the brain, because they tell you how to avoid official punishment. Unwritten laws and inexplicable laws are probably something I live in constant fear/anxiety of - especially those that contradict the written ones.

I guess that when all is said and done, I respect someone who can follow them out of principle or self-interest effectively, or someone who doesn't care much about them. I don't think I really respect people who go out of their way to toe the line or break them, though, and I believe that's what I am.

Being honorable and virtuous does not means anything anymore, nodoby really cares if you are. When was the last time someone told you you were really honorable/virtuous? It's actually bad since if people feels like you are like that they'll try to use you. After all being honorable is also being predictable.

Why is that bad though? Why is it bad to be exploited or used by others? If only I could reach such a high calling.

[mai]

But, the thing is, we're usually taught and made believe that you're a "good person" if you're obedient and follow the rules...at least when you're very young, and still don't have much sense of etics developed.

Hmm, are you familiar with the concept of master-slave morality? If not, you should look it up. You might find it interesting.

I try to be a good person because that's the way I was brought up. Most of the time, being a good person hasn't been very rewarding, and as time goes on, I'm more inclined to believe that bad or immoral people have it easier a lot of the time... The only "reward" I get from it is feeling nice when I do something nice for other people and they appreciate it, but most of the time they don't even notice.

In a perfect world, being nice to others would mean that they, in return, are nicer to you. But honestly... that's really not the case most of the time, at least from my experience. But then again maybe I've just met the wrong people.

[Steampunk]

Being honorable and virtuous does not means anything anymore, nodoby really cares if you are. When was the last time someone told you you were really honorable/virtuous? It's actually bad since if people feels like you are like that they'll try to use you. After all being honorable is also being predictable.

That hasn't really been my experience in the real world. Most people have a "treat others the way the treat you" attitude. Treat enough people like crap, and you'll have a hard time getting anywhere in the world. Television and movies really romanticize deception and make manipulative people seem really clever and successful. In my humble experience, people who exploit others with no regard for those around them get nowhere in life because people find out they can't be trusted, and tell others the same. Those who've already made it to the top will certainly take advantage of their leverage, but getting there means leaving other people with a good impression of you so they vouch for you when an opportunity comes along. Someone might exploit others for short term gains, but they destroy any long term prospects because no one in their social network will put in a good word for them.

I think a big part of obeying laws also relates to understanding the laws in question. Some laws don't make any sense, so it's not unreasonable for people to ignore ridiculous laws. If you understand a law's intended function, I'd think you're more likely to obey it because you know why the law exists. Also, most laws are pretty common sense and don't require anyone to make dramatic changes to their lifestyle (with exceptions). I don't think anyone here is organizing a resistance to oppose the totalitarian decree of not smoking inside hospitals.

[Rapier]

I am talking about minimal laws, thoughs. Ones that won't affect those kind of things or get you a penalty of fine...things one could considering irrelevant and just not worth following.

Like crossing the street when the lights are green even though there are no cars around. FOR EXAMPLE.

I have a somewhat naive view about this topic, but... I'd say being responsible is a huge deal, because a truly responsible person knows that there is always a consequence for their acts. I'll use this example of yours as a reference. By crossing the street when the lights are green, you might not only cause an accident, but kill yourself and/or possibly killing somebody else as well. By complying with such a minimal law, they are contributing for the order and well-being of the society.

Of course, that is just me. Nobody truly cares about anything anymore. This is one of the reasons why society is decaying so much.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Rapier

[Original Alear]

I have a somewhat naive view about this topic, but... I'd say being responsible is a huge deal, because a truly responsible person knows that there is always a consequence for their acts. I'll use this example of yours as a reference. By crossing the street when the lights are green, you might not only cause an accident, but kill yourself and/or possibly killing somebody else as well. By complying with such a minimal law, they are contributing for the order and well-being of the society.

Of course, that is just me. Nobody truly cares about anything anymore. This is one of the reasons why society is decaying so much.

Just remember, Yu Yu Hakusho is really an anime about the importance of crossing the street safely. Of course, I guess that all the heroic adventures would've been impossible if that kid hadn't been reckless, but that's all the fantasy stuff.

[Kay]

Being honorable and virtuous does not means anything anymore, nodoby really cares if you are. When was the last time someone told you you were really honorable/virtuous? It's actually bad since if people feels like you are like that they'll try to use you. After all being honorable is also being predictable.

I don't think that's really true, and it's stupid in any case. Being honorable and virtuous always matters, regardless of whether people like you for it. But even from a purely practical point of view, I think it works better. Yeah, some people will try to manipulate you because of it, but I think unless you deliberately hang around with jerks or something, there aren't enough of those people to make it a disadvantage overall. I'm always surprised by how much people are willing to help me out just because I've been nice to them in the past.

[Black Ice]

I don't think that's really true, and it's stupid in any case. Being honorable and virtuous always matters, regardless of whether people like you for it. But even from a purely practical point of view, I think it works better. Yeah, some people will try to manipulate you because of it, but I think unless you deliberately hang around with jerks or something, there aren't enough of those people to make it a disadvantage overall. I'm always surprised by how much people are willing to help me out just because I've been nice to them in the past.

it really depends on your view on life.

there's a reason shoplifting is such a big issue everywhere.

[Kay]

it really depends on your view on life.

there's a reason shoplifting is such a big issue everywhere.

Pretty sure people don't shoplift because their personal philosophy doesn't condemn it. I get the impression the vast majority of shoplifters are just impulsively grabbing stuff when they see the opportunity. Otherwise people would shoplift more valuable stuff, I suspect, and less random junk. Because going to jail because you couldn't cough up seventy-five cents for a Snickers would be kinda pathetic.

I think the extent that people consciously decide it's okay is just to figure stealing stuff from a large store isn't the same as stealing stuff from a person, which doesn't mean much because that's just a really basic way of negating stuff everyone learns when they're two years old. I think it depends much more on how much you act in accordance with your view on life than what it is.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Kay

[BluBlaDe]

I don't think that's really true, and it's stupid in any case. Being honorable and virtuous always matters, regardless of whether people like you for it. But even from a purely practical point of view, I think it works better. Yeah, some people will try to manipulate you because of it, but I think unless you deliberately hang around with jerks or something, there aren't enough of those people to make it a disadvantage overall. I'm always surprised by how much people are willing to help me out just because I've been nice to them in the past.

It's still a weakness. People will take your good will for granted and will start to ask 4 more. Like if you help someone with something and they ask you to do the same next time, if you don't do it they'll give you shit and ask you Y u did not do it. U should be nice by default but once someone ask you do to something that you don't want you tell them to fuck off.

[Dark Sage]

It's still a weakness. People will take your good will for granted and will start to ask 4 more. Like if you help someone with something and they ask you to do the same next time, if you don't do it they'll give you shit and ask you Y u did not do it. U should be nice by default but once someone ask you do to something that you don't want you tell them to fuck off.

I was going to write a serious post on how this is a horrible attitude to have in life and how much this would come to bite you back in the ass later, but then I remembered you're probably like, 15 years old with no life experience so of course you'd act retarded about stuff like this.

Also fyi, you don't sound like an internet badass when you post shit like this; you sound like you're trying too hard to sound edgy and cool.