Gerik as ranger - the most underestimated promotion

[dondon151]

ephraim route is for turds

[Espinosa]

ephraim route is for turds

idk about that. Chapters 9 & 12 on Eirika route are the most boring thing ever and chapter 13 is too short. I also hate how chapter 10 is all about your fliers surviving the rather accurate ballistae. Ephraim's chapters are nowhere near as annoying, and playing FE8 without going to Phantom Ship is like , idk, playing FE7 and not doing Night of Farewells/Cog of Destiny? Good luck with the latter though.

It also helps that you recruit an actual proficient flier without wasting a single turn (you lose a crapload on Eirika's) and Duessel can naturally reach S axes and contribute here and there, moreso than on Eirika's path. I know he's the bosskiller of choice on 0% growths, but you haven't got much of a choice there because even Seth is a growth unit when it comes to lategame bosses. I think Horace explained very convincingly that Duessel loses to Seth in an LTC with growths.

[Nicolas]

Someone is going to get familiar with the concept of LTC and Efficiency sometime.

Ranger Gerik isn't bad, but there's not much use for him in the main game since we have 4 potential paladins+seth in addition to 4 flyers and Duessell.

Not many use the tower/ruins as a measuring stick on unit performance. It's not really a good one because the first floor of the ruins is fairly easy.

It just requires 1-2 range on a unit that can survive and deal more than 20 damage at 2 range.

[not magic sword!ranger gerik]

Now there's hand axes, which are cheap and plentiful compared to rare magic swords that only come as random drops most of the time and would probobly be better in the hands of a unit that's swordlocked.

Besides, the only thing that's probobly not getting 2RKO'd by hand axe!gerik are the cyclops. And that's why we have killers.

Or use Hero!Garcia in place of Gerik since he doesn't have enough con to wield axes.

Also note that rescue-dropping and rescue chain strats make good foot combatants go ahead faster.

Huh, I completely forgot about this topic. I make video when Gerik is on 20/20 without any stat booster, but number of phase was so similar so I do not upload this. And you also cannot 2HKO with hand axes Elder Barel (which aren't rare in this game).

PS: If you even try to make video like that with Gerik!Hero please don't ever try take 5 Hand Axes, because it isn't enough to beat it.

[Baldrick]

That's why you don't take five Hand Axes in. 3-4 would be enough, and fill the rest with Brave/Killer weapons.

Like I said before, a solo is a poor way to judge a unit's respective promotions.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Baldrick

[Vorena]

@Nicolas:

This is similar to the FE10. All units can literally be good and usable for the length of the game and be put to use in the endgame. The problem is that some characters worth is more valued in those who can get to good stats with the least amount of support. Despite Vaike leaving in part 1 and returning in part 4 she can be used if you pour lots of boosters her way and B.Exp.

With FE8, you can play the game a couple of different ways. Endgame content or regular game content. Typically, you will see people play the regular game content which ends after you beat the Demon King. Even then you can play it with restrictions such as trying to get lowest turns possible.

Thus, ignoring endgame content something like maximum stats is negligible in a units worth. The stat gains between classes is almost negligible as well since they are quite similar. Depending upon how much you use the tower or ruins for example you might have a slightly overpowered unit anyway. So in this case the only way to value the ranger vs hero class is movement, con, and weapon choice.

Movement depends upon your goals with the game when not playing for end game content. If you are literally not moving very far each turn, then all that movement you have will go to waste. Con with Gerik is already pretty dang high and only a couple of weapons will slow him down. Even then, its by about a point at most and with Gerik's already high enough speed he'll be doubling even with the -1 or -2 to speed.

All in all, Ranger is a pretty decent class if you reserve Gerik for simply ferrying units, needing to complete levels quickly, and having a strong unit KO an enemy at least once a round. Otherwise, Hero just makes the better combat unit. As already explained, if you chuck Gerik into a number of enemies with the hand axe, he'll one round knock out most of them by himself. Otherwise, the ranger class needs to switch back and forth between one and two range simply taking forever. Additionally, Axes offer a more powerful option to KO'ing units.

Finally, I find it hard to really see which is the better class because they function so differently depending upon what you want to achieve. If you really want to see which is better you simply have to see how are you going to be playing the game.

[Nicolas]

@Baldrick

@Vorena

I'm completely agreed with both of you. In previous post I wrote something like "Hero!Gerik == Ranger!Gerik" and I also thing that solo run is not good a poor way to judge a unit's respective promotions, but I just don't see any better. I just try to prove that Ranger!Gerik is underrated.

[Shin]

From what you said, you made it sound like Ranger!Gerik was better - and only because of the extra move and higher speed cap. Ranger!Gerik works, it's just not as good as Hero. Gerik enjoys having reliable 1-2 range, and can swap to something stronger to kill tough enemies. Whilst Ranger!Gerik ends up swapping between bows and swords, making it take longer to kill stuff.

[Espinosa]

Gerik's speed cap shouldn't matter either because he's pretty far from reaching it as either class.

[Nicolas]

Hero has more battle performance in killing enemy, that's right, but when I make 1st video I get one thing: that's no matter. Why? Because killing wright and other pitiful enemy it's like sweep. Even if you miss some dust, it has been swiped in next move. Brave swords/bows it's also more than enough to kill all strongest enemy alive( or not).

[dondon151]

PS: If you even try to make video like that with Gerik!Hero please don't ever try take 5 Hand Axes, because it isn't enough to beat it.

then use a stronger axe

[Nicolas]

then use a stronger axe

Problem is not attack power, but durability. IIRC in 1st floor of LR is 40+12 enemy and he all must take two or more(elder barel and Cyclops, but some elder barel can be 2HKO with sliver axe) hits or one crit. So you must have more than 100 uses of weapons. Of course for team run that wouldn't be problem, but I still don't like in hand axes low number of uses.

[Vorena]

Pretty much majority of enemies on the map are 2HKO'd I believe by hand axe. An occasional 3HKO here and there from the high HP enemies. Otherwise, 125 uses across 52 enemies is more than enough. More when you consider you'll get some critical out of all of those 52 enemies on the first attack. On average, you are really facing 47 enemies with 120 weapon uses.

[MacLovin]

thing is.

if this is a Creature Campaign run, then the player has probobly grinded for supports too.

So Hero Gerik could have Ross/Tethys, Tethys/Saleh or Ross/Saleh for more attack and crit.

also, remember that Tomahawks are viable too.

[Nicolas]

Pretty much majority of enemies on the map are 2HKO'd I believe by hand axe. An occasional 3HKO here and there from the high HP enemies. Otherwise, 125 uses across 52 enemies is more than enough. More when you consider you'll get some critical out of all of those 52 enemies on the first attack. On average, you are really facing 47 enemies with 120 weapon uses.

Hand Axe has 20 uses and one character has five slots, so you have maximal 100 uses of Hand Axe(not enough to kill evrything on 1st floor). Also in my life much majority of enemy have get killed by crit in second attack.

But that's all is no matter since no one is fool enough to beat even 1st floor solo with only hand axe.

thing is.

if this is a Creature Campaign run, then the player has probobly grinded for supports too.

So Hero Gerik could have Ross/Tethys, Tethys/Saleh or Ross/Saleh for more attack and crit.

also, remember that Tomahawks are viable too.

Good argument, but with higher movement you won't resign of supports(right, it's a little bit harder to use it, but not much).

Tomahawk. 15 uses make they (and spears) very, very uncomfortable to use. For lower floor of LR I prefer Iron weapons, even if run will take a little more time I won't even think about take something from supply.

Edited June 15, 2013 by Nicolas