Why is LTC hated?

[Shin]

Nah, I'm not offended at all. I was simply stating a fact, because calling someone an "egomaniac" is an insult. That's simple.

I said in an earlier post that he targeted "some" LTC players.

Firstly, cheer up a little! Secondly, I never called you an egomaniac, I said people who thought all LTC's were egomaniacs because of a select few were bad. I never even implied that you're part of the select few I was talking about. I didn't actually refer to anyone in particular, silly. Both extremes are equally guilty of nastiness towards the other side.

[Integrity]

No LTC player has done this.

I'm going to distill everything to this, because I think this is the only point you have.

So your statement is every non-LTC player (like, dare I say it, Snowy) who's felt put upon by the Efficiency Brigade is literally just imagining it?

[Chiki]

I'm going to distill everything to this, because I think this is the only point you have.

So your statement is every non-LTC player (like, dare I say it, Snowy) who's felt put upon by the Efficiency Brigade is literally just imagining it?

Yep. Look at RFOF's post:

Now I always have and still do believe that much of this supposed elitism doesn't actually exist and is the result of people being too sensitive and not actually considering where LTCers are coming from

[Da Bear]

Efficiency and LTC are 2 very different things.

[Chiki]

Efficiency and LTC are 2 very different things.

It depends on what you mean by efficiency. There's two kinds of efficiencies:

Vague Efficiency: You simply go as fast as the tier list owner wants you to, with reliability.

LTC Efficiency: You go as fast as possible with a certain amount of reliability.

[Rehab]

"Casual" doesn't mean "not ltc" or even "not efficient" to me, for the record, I interpret it to mean "I'm not interested in learning how this game works and just want to get through it without seeing the different ways it can be played"

So IMO you can be a non-casual player and not play ltc, you can even be a non-casual player and not play efficiently, "casual" doesn't seem like it should be the same thing as "non-competitive"

If there's something that particularly marks a player as "a casual," I think it's simply that they won't disagree if you call them a casual player, and I kinda do disagree when somebody says that's what I am because I don't care about turn-burning efficiency much, yeah

I am also of the opinion that if somebody doesn't believe anybody has ever said "this option that is not strictly efficient is casual," while implying that it is lesser for it, they've either missed a lot or are determined to not see it

Edited June 5, 2013 by Rehab

[Integrity]

Yep. Look at RFOF's post:

much of

Which agrees with Shin's post that it's not the product of the majority by any stretch, but just a bare few like the charming lad I mentioned in the above edit quoted below. I agree that most of the Efficiency Brigade are reasonable people, and examples to the contrary exist. Most Christians IME are reasonable people, but Westboro Baptist exists, you dig?

EDIT: You know, an example did in fact come to mind. There's a guy I knew who would, honest to God, give people shit for playing on anything less than the highest difficulty at max efficiency. This wasn't a little heckling between friends, he would seriously be a douchebag to people who talked about doing anything less than the most optimal thing all the time.

At any rate, if you honestly believe that the whole Efficiency Brigade are sterling people who have never been elitist about playing LTC then I have no place here, since my evidence to the contrary is all anecdotal and you wouldn't let that run it through your skull that some (not all) people have been elitists about their opinions. I'm out, keep it civil, ta.

[Da Bear]

It depends on what you mean by efficiency. There's two kinds of efficiencies:

Vague Efficiency: You simply go as fast as the tier list owner wants you to, with reliability.

LTC Efficiency: You go as fast as possible with a certain amount of reliability.

I think the 1st is what tier lists are based upon.

Take Interceptor's playlogs of RD and Awakening and compare to your LTC runs of the same games. There is a 100+ turn-count difference. That's especially big when you consider that you cleared Awakening in 49 turns. LTC efficiency seems almost like defying terms to me but wtv

Also neither Playthrough is in any way better than the other because while you cleared faster, Interceptor had a different goal in his PT.

[Chiki]

I've honestly never seen an LTC player be elitist towards anyone.

If it happened while I wasn't around (or I didn't see) then I'm willing to retract my statement. But it still would be true the vast majority of the time.

I think the 1st is what tier lists are based upon.

Take Interceptor's playlogs of RD and Awakening and compare to your LTC runs of the same games. There is a 100+ turn-count difference. That's especially big when you consider that you cleared Awakening in 49 turns. LTC efficiency seems almost like defying terms to me but wtv

Yes, indeed.

Also neither Playthrough is in any way better than the other because while you cleared faster, Interceptor had a different goal in his PT.

A lot more thinking went into my playthroughs than any of Interceptor's. And I think that's what makes my playthroughs better (but that's just my personal opinion, and anyone else could have a different view of what better is).

Edited June 5, 2013 by Chiki

[Da Bear]

I've honestly never seen an LTC player be elitist towards anyone.

If it happened while I wasn't around (or I didn't see) then I'm willing to retract my statement. But it still would be true the vast majority of the time.

I've seen it multiple times... unless we have different definitions which isn't unlikely at all.

[Constable Reggie]

A lot more thinking went into my playthroughs than any of Interceptor's.

How do you know this? Why are you assuming this?

Do you not see a problem with this claim whatsoever?

Edited June 5, 2013 by Constable Reggie

[Chiki]

It's simple: going as fast as possible makes you think more. A LOT more.

I could do Interceptor's playlog in just a couple days. It's mindblowingly easy for me. My RD playthrough took 2 months. Though that was partially because I moved, so a month total.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Chiki

[Constable Reggie]

And you can't see the irony of your past statements?

[Chiki]

I think you're just trying to "troll" me again, because there's nothing silly about my "past statements." I could replicate what Interceptor did in just a couple days. That is why I think my playthroughs are better. That is all.

It's my personal opinion, and you have no reason to be offended by it.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Chiki

[Constable Reggie]

You can disregard all my posts as trolling, like you always do, if you want, but if you want to know a significant reason why people look down on ltc-style play, look no further past your own posts.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Constable Reggie

[Chiki]

I let people know it was my personal opinion and it was fine for others to have their own opinions.

If people are offended over that, that just means they really are incredibly sensitive.

[RJWalker]

It's simple: going as fast as possible makes you think more. A LOT more.

I could do Interceptor's playlog in just a couple days. It's mindblowingly easy for me. My RD playthrough took 2 months. Though that was partially because I moved, so a month total.

No LTC player has told anyone here that they are inferior, unintelligent or anything like that. I think the people here just take video games too seriously.

So you take two months just to plan out a playthrough of a video game and you say other people take vidoe games too serioulsy? Please tell me you've been trolling us the whole time.

[Chiki]

What I mean by seriously is that I don't get offended by others if they think I'm a bad player, and so on. I've already addressed this earlier.

[Constable Reggie]

I think all people who don't play my style of play, turtling+boss abusing, are intellectually inferior, especially ltc players. After all, it took me two and a half years to plan and play through my Fe6 playthrough, so it must be true.

This is just my opinion of course, so taking offense to, or mocking, this just means you're a sensitive git.

"lol its just my opinion" is a pathetic excuse to be insulting.

[Snowy_One]

Yay! Mami's here! Want to have some cheesecake Mami/Int?

Anyways, Chiki, here's some advise you should probably at least consider (I should too, but that's not important ATM). When you're trying to prove that LTCers aren't elitist, consider how your comments may be seen before posting. Even if you yourself aren't an elitist odds are that most of the people here *have* met someone who is. I'm sure even you have met someone who gladly insults people who don't gun for at least super-effecient play. My first encounter was when playing FE8 and coming to the board and asking for help clearing one of the chapters and mentioning I used both Amelia and Neimi. It got at least five replies claiming the entire problem with my team was because of them (it wasn't. It was with Vanessa who I now know was stat-screwed) and I needed to pick characters who could complete the game 'faster'. Over the years I've seen this happen many, many, times. I even do a little bit of it when I rip on Rolf (though, to be fair, most of it is frustration with him not getting an ending with Mist) and people who use him.

Back on track. By telling people that LTC elitism doesn't exist because *you* can't think of any or feel it's justified/not intended that way, you're insulting the people who have been hurt/irritated by such people and whom have indeed dealt with elitists. Especially since, by doing so, you're displaying a similar self-centered mindset (because I've never seen one and because I never meant anything that way they don't exist) as actual elitists.

Edit: Feel I might as well say this right now. While I despise LTC tiers, there are debaters I *do* look up to. Mainly ones whom are willing to attempt new things and are willing to prove characters are good without resorting to 'shaves Y turns off of X chapter'.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Snowy_One

[Chiki]

When did you deal with one Snowy? And who do you look up to?

Edited June 5, 2013 by Chiki

[dondon151]

yeah jushiro it is so funny that you are completely oblivious to the fact that a huge number of your posts just exude the elitism that you vehemently deny

you don't have to declare that your are an elitist to be perceived as such. perhaps you should have pursued a certificate in psychology instead of logic, lest you be reading this topic and scratching your head as to why so many people explicitly or implicitly singled you out as a shining example of why LTC players are disliked.

[Chiki]

And others, not only me, have pointed out that it is just an illusion. People can be wrong about their intuitions sometimes.

[Constable Reggie]

"It's not me, it's everyone else that's wrong!"

I'm legitimately surprised that you still can't understand why ltc folk like yourself come off as annoyingly elitist when you continue to make posts like these.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Constable Reggie

[Chiki]

I'd really appreciate it if people could find examples of me being elitist about the LTC playstyle, or insulting people personally due to a video game.